How to think critically about what the media is telling you?

[mspart]

3 hours ago, BobDole said:

As I stated banning IP addresses these days is risky and doesn't do much as users can use multiple IP addresses each day with work, home, and cell networks. And then again, even if you go after their IP addresses they can always get a VPN and then you play that game too. 

This was much easier 15 years ago when most cell phones didn't access the internet, but these days it is fruitless.

How are you, who is dead, so wise in the ways of IP science?

mspart

Edited August 15 by mspart

[mspart]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

You just need a warning label. 
 

I don't know.   That wrapper looks pretty good.   

aspart

[jross]

Direct answers

1. What would Intermat's role be if someone starting falsely posting on here using your real name that you were a pedo? 

• Immediate Review: Moderators may notice or respond to flagged posts to see if they break the rules. False accusations like calling someone a pedophile are unacceptable.
• Post Removal: If the claim is false and defamatory, the post should be removed right away to stop any harm.
• Consequences for the Poster: The person responsible could be banned.
• Community Notification: The member name, consequence, and reasoning with as much detail as appropriate may be posted to clarify the facts and reinforce the forum's rules.
• Legal Cooperation: If the situation is serious, the forum may need to work with legal authorities.

2. Would you want it censored or just let it go even though it was false information? 

• I would want the information community noted or otherwise censored with the link / comment to the community notification details.

3. At what point should a person be censored for spreading false information on this website? 

• When the moderator notices that the person is in violation of the guidelines with unacceptable posted behaviors

4. You have legal options against whom?

• I could work with legal to determine who the anonymous internet troll is through the use of IP Addresses, Previous commentary, contact information, and through other unposted means.
• No options against the Intermat.

5. Say there is a health emergency and a respected poster claims his cousin who is a doctor told him to drink 8oz of bleach and it will cure it. He even claims he did it. Then you suggest it to your spouse and they die. Would you want that censored or are we just going to weed out the idiots who believe that stuff? 

• It’s our own responsibility to research what we put in our bodies. Bleach is toxic and should never be ingested. I was taught from a young age to avoid drinking chemicals, and I’ve always read labels carefully.

  Even if the CDC says heavily diluted bleach might be used in emergencies, drinking bleach is still dangerous and dumb. It’s not the forum’s job to stop everyone from making such poor choices.

  However, forums can remove posts that suggest harmful actions. I think community notes on X.com, where misinformation gets visibly addressed, is a good approach.

6. Who decides if someone has went against these guidelines? Maybe I feel someone went over them, while Willie says no that's fine. This isn't a 55mph speed limit, this is "reasonable speeds should be taken at all times." We aren't always going to agree on what a reasonable speed is.

•  The moderator.  Here is how...

  • Clear Guidelines: Clarify what reasonable means (pick something).
  • Moderation Team: Run decisions by the team if there is ambiguity and history of similar decisions causing negative community response. 
  • Appeal Process: Members should be able to appeal moderation decisions. 
  • Documentation: Publicly post the moderation actions and reasons to help ensure decisions are transparent and consistent.  This also informs the community with acceptable behavior.
  • Community Input: For contentious issues, involving the community can help with alignment.

7. How do we make guidelines to not be annoying?

• Define it with examples...
  1. Posting Too Much: Flooding the forum with too many messages.
  2. Going Off-Topic: Posting about unrelated subjects in the wrong threads.
  3. Asking Repeated Questions: Repeating questions that have already been answered.
  4. Arguing Aggressively: Getting into heated arguments that disrupt discussions.
  5. Trolling: Making inflammatory comments to provoke others.
  6. Personal Attacks: Insulting or attacking other members personally.
  7. Ignoring Etiquette: Not following basic forum rules or manners.
  8. Spamming: Posting the same content multiple times.
  9. Bumping Old Threads: Bringing old discussions back to the top without a good reason.
  10. Bob's Law: Any behavior that particularly bothers Bob the moderator.

8. Should we censor annoying people who are intolerable to visit?

• Yes because being annoying is hypothetically an unacceptable behavior that violates the posted guidelines.

9. Tending to social media is not an easy job and I can't even imagine what goes on an the big dawgs. Do we let people be idiots and potentially ruin our product or do we censor people?

• Please define idiot.
  • The type of idiot that posts harmful information is in violation.
  • The idiot that lacks reasoning should probably stay...
    • These people won’t or can't explain their reasons for their beliefs or decisions.  They might come off as unreasonable, closed-minded, or low IQ.  The do not know how to think critically and or make no attempt to.  It certainly annoys me but I'm an idiot that wants to educate.

10. Do we (Intermat) censor posts accusing someone of inappropriate relations with athletes? This was something that came up a year ago when some people were saying a coach was doing some bad things. There was no evidence, but at what point do we stop the accusations?

• Yes.  The guidelines mention that false and defamatory accusations may be reviewed and potentially removed. This includes unfounded claims about a coach or anyone else being involved in inappropriate relations.

11. It boils down simply, how much garbage will you dig through to find what you want?

12. Are you will to sift through accusations of bad behavior, annoying posters trying to start fights, and topics about cats to find what you want to read?

• Personally yes.  I have eight members on 'ignore.'  This helps me manage the forum experience.  And I have browser plugin tweaks that replaces specific member images and member names.  This turns my annoyance into a chuckle.
• I support more member right moderation to the zoo.  It works.

13. If you want what you believe is truly freedom of speech, this place would be intolerable to come and discuss topics at. Drawing the line is easy to say, but the act of doing it makes it a squiggly line and nothing like you believe in your head.

• This is true.  Reddit is a moderation disaster.  When Twitter went heavy on conservative moderation and ignored behavior in progressive content, I dumped it and tried out Gab.  Gab goes way beyond my line of acceptability.  I reported issues, was ignored, and I left.  I've never reported issues anywhere but on Gab.  X is doing it best.

14. You also did not address people who are just making this place unbearable to come to. They don't always post negatively, but nag, annoy, and provoke others to be annoying. Is there a rule for that or do we just allow it until no one comes here?

• Yes -- it is unacceptable behavior in the hypothetical guidelines.

15. So accusing others of illegal behavior is something you would allow? What about posting of pornography? Do you want that allowed?

• False accusations was covered...
• Add porn to the not okay list... no nudity, no drug content, no sexual content

---stopping here for brevity.  will update hypothetical guidelines in a future post.

[jross]

Hypothetical Forum Guidelines

Acceptable Behavior:

1. Respectful Communication: Be polite and avoid insults. Instead of saying, “You’re always wrong,” say, “I disagree because…”

2. On-Topic Contributions: Keep comments relevant to the discussion. If the topic is tech, stick to that subject.

3. Constructive Feedback: Focus on the idea rather than the person. Instead of saying, “You never get it,” say, “This approach might not work because…”

Unacceptable Behavior:

1. Personal Attacks: Do not belittle or insult others. Avoid statements like, “You’re an idiot.”

2. Trolling: Refrain from making inflammatory statements designed to upset others or start arguments.

3. Reporting Misuse: Do not report posts just because they offend you personally. Provocative statements and opinions that are not personal attacks should not be reported.

4. False/Defamatory Accusations: Accusations without evidence, especially those involving illegal behavior or personal attacks, are not allowed. 

5. Posting Harmful Information: Posts that promote dangerous actions, such as drinking bleach for weight loss, will be removed.

6. Pornography: Posting pornography is strictly prohibited and will result in immediate removal and potential banning.

7. Illegal Activity: Any posts or discussions promoting, endorsing, or engaging in illegal activities are strictly prohibited and will be removed.

8. *Annoying Behavior (Bob's Law): Any behavior that excessively disrupts, nags, annoys, or provokes others, creating an unbearable atmosphere, will be addressed.

Consequences:

1. Warnings: Members who violate these guidelines may receive warnings.

2. Removal: Posts that breach the guidelines may be removed.

3. Banning: Repeated violations or severe breaches may result in a temporary or permanent ban.

4. Community Discussion: Members may be allowed a community discussion to potentially restore their rights after a ban.

5. Public Statements: In cases involving false accusations or significant issues, a public statement may be issued to clarify facts and reinforce community standards.

 

*Annoying Behavior (Bob's Law):

1. Posting Too Much: Flooding the forum with too many messages.
2. Going Off-Topic: Posting about unrelated subjects in the wrong threads.
3. Asking Repeated Questions: Repeating questions that have already been answered.
4. Arguing Aggressively: Getting into heated arguments that disrupt discussions.
5. Trolling: Making inflammatory comments to provoke others.
6. Personal Attacks: Insulting or attacking other members personally.
7. Ignoring Etiquette: Not following basic forum rules or manners.
8. Spamming: Posting the same content multiple times.
9. Bumping Old Threads: Bringing old discussions back to the top without a good reason.
10. Bob’s Law: Any behavior that particularly bothers Bob the moderator.

 

---

This builds on the principles of "Be Respectful" and "Don't be a dick." If you don’t follow these guidelines, you might find yourself "Off to the Zoo" or have your membership "Put to Pasture."

[jross]

4 hours ago, BobDole said:

Thanks for your suggestions even though you blatantly refuse to answer my questions about censorship. I will just close by saying, this isn't my first board to moderate and I fully understand how to do it. 

Thanks for your patience.  The first guidelines were meant so you (anyone) could answer.  I went back and answered several questions directly, and updated hypothetical guidelines to better match the answers.

[jross]

@BobDole The IP Address suggestion came from personal experience.  Several years ago, I encountered a situation where I couldn’t connect to a specific vendor's services using my phone. This issue seemed to be linked to a specific location. Frustrated, I stopped using the vendor's services. Later, I found out that the vendor had actually banned a whole IP block, which affected my ability to connect from that particular tower.

[RockLobster]

49 minutes ago, jross said:

Thanks for your patience.  The first guidelines were meant so you (anyone) could answer.  I went back and answered several questions directly, and updated hypothetical guidelines to better match the answers.

I've never liked your posts, because I've always thought you were posting misinformation from China.

... and here you have done and proved it.

Nicely done.

[Scouts Honor]

 

[jross]

Listen. 

 

[WrestlingRasta]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:53 PM, jross said:

I joined a Wrestling Forum on Facebook and was appalled by the TMZ-like sensationalism over a senior member’s DUI. When I criticized this gossip, I was banned. I encountered similar behavior on Twitter and was blocked by the same man for calling it out. It’s a stark reminder of a conversation I once had with college students at a gym: When does a man truly become a man? It’s not just about having the physically developed mind at 25 years old; it’s about taking responsibility and guiding the next generation. Sadly, many people, even in their 50s, behave like children, despite having their own kids.

I have a strong feeling who that same 'man' might be...

[headshuck]

I think it was RedViking who said he reads Reuters for neutral news. Checked it out today and it’s just the opposite.

https://www.reuters.com/

[WrestlingRasta]

4 minutes ago, headshuck said:

I think it was RedViking who said he reads Reuters for neutral news. Checked it out today and it’s just the opposite.

https://www.reuters.com/

This chart will tell you how biased your favorite news source is - Big Think

Reuters - Bias and Credibility - Media Bias/Fact Check (mediabiasfactcheck.com)

Reuters Media Bias | AllSides

 

Three different evaluation sites all placing Reuters as 'center'.     "Bias" is not determined by whether or not the reader likes or is comfortable with what they are reading.  (PS- BBC is another good site for neutral US news)

[headshuck]

Sounds like the Supreme Court. Conservatives should try to pack the independent review industry with three new review services.

[ionel]

52 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Three different evaluation sites all placing Reuters as 'center'.     "Bias" is not determined by whether or not the reader likes or is comfortable with what they are reading.  (PS- BBC is another good site for neutral US news)

But also bias isn't just how its reported but what they spend their time reporting.  

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

But also bias isn't just how its reported but what they spend their time reporting.  

Don't disagree.  My point being the call out of "well i don't like it so its bias"

[headshuck]

If I hated Trump, which I might, this story is not neutral in my opinion.

https://www.reuters.com/world/how-trumps-intimidation-tactics-have-reshaped-republican-party-2024-08-16/

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, headshuck said:

If I hated Trump, which I might, this story is not neutral in my opinion.

https://www.reuters.com/world/how-trumps-intimidation-tactics-have-reshaped-republican-party-2024-08-16/

You’d be correct, Reuters nor AP are center, and as impossible as it is to be unbiased, it is possible to report that way.  As for the ‘fact checkers’ they predominantly spew the company line, at least for a few years or until it’s embarrassingly obvious that it’s gaslighting.  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[mspart]

4 hours ago, jross said:

Listen. 

 

This is a really good video.   He is not pro anything other than critical thinking. 

mspart

 

 

 

[Scouts Honor]

mistakes are made all the time.

the problem is, the mistakes almost always go one way.

[jross]

The Tim Walz horse story is as believable as suckers and losers.

[Scouts Honor]

hmmm

 

[jross]

Why believe your ears in the raw footage

 

When you can trust Kamala's friends and the media?

[WrestlingRasta]

On 8/16/2024 at 5:56 PM, Scouts Honor said:

mistakes are made all the time.

the problem is, the mistakes almost always go one way.

A mistake is only a mistake if you fail to learn from it and grow. Because at that point it evolves from a mistake, to a learning experience.  

[Scouts Honor]

the media never learns

i agree

[Scouts Honor]

it's price gouging!!