Biggest Loser, Downey or Ferrari?

[AgaveMaria]

Two Big Dogs who claimed IOWA to be the promised land.

Got all the Squawkeye faithful exclted and bragging before anything even happened.

Downey on the way to his 14 PhD's at the School and Ferrari rar'n to go for three more NCAA Titles and annual payments in the Millions of $$$.

Both screwed up bigger than buffalo Shiz on the dining room table.

Who's the biggest loser? (between them, IOWA for sure, but not in this context)

[Hammerlock3]

why all the hate? And if the hate is necessary just say you hate iowa, you dont have to try and trojan horse it in.

[jackwebster]

7 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

 

Long live the Edge Lord!

[1032004]

Well Downey recently fared better against Starocci then I’d expect AJ to…

[H82Lose]

11 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Two Big Dogs who claimed IOWA to be the promised land.

Got all the Squawkeye faithful exclted and bragging before anything even happened.

Downey on the way to his 14 PhD's at the School and Ferrari rar'n to go for three more NCAA Titles and annual payments in the Millions of $$$.

Both screwed up bigger than buffalo Shiz on the dining room table.

Who's the biggest loser? (between them, IOWA for sure, but not in this context)

serious question, did Ferrari's beat your kid or bang one of your relatives? I get it, I think 2 of the 3 are complete fools, but man you go out of your way to post about them. I truly would love to know the back story to why you hate them so much. It has to be personal, I hate a lot of people but I would not give a 1/3 of the energy that you do. 

[fishbane]

Pat Downey

Junior College champ (2015)

1x D1 AA (5th at 197 in 2016)

Junior world silver in freestyle (2012)

US senior open champ (2019)

US World Team Member Freestyle 2019

Wins include Jared Haught, Drew Foster, Kenny Courts, Quentin Wright, Robert Hamlin, Sammy Brooks, Tyrell Todd, Tyler Caldwell, Josh Asper, Gabe Dean, Kyle Crutchmer, Brett Pfarr, Myles Martin, Nick Heflin, Joe Rau, Ethan Ramos, and Aaron Brooks.  Most of those came in freestyle as he only wrestled 22 times over two seasons in NCAA competition.

I'm pretty sure Downey has a bachelor's degree from ISU and an associates from ICCC.

AJ Ferrari

1 x D1 AA (1st at 197 2021)

Cadet World Bronze in Freestyle (2018)

Ferrari's wins include Younger Bastida, Jake Woodley, Stephen Buchanan, Tanner Sloan, Jacob Warner, Myles Amine, and Nino Bonaccorsi.  Those were all in NCAA competition and Ferrari didn't compete much more than Downey with only 30 NCAA matches over 2 seasons.

Pretty sure Ferrari doesn't have a college degree.

I'd say Downey has the both the better wrestling and academic accomplishments.  Some might value Ferrari's NCAA title over Downey's freestyle accomplishments, but I am not among them. Academically Downey is the only one with a degree and he has two of them. He might also have some graduate coursework completed.  These factors favor Downey.

On the other hand Downey has the more extensive rap sheet.  Probably was arrested at least 2x as many times as Ferrari.   Whilst Ferrari has been successful in getting his criminal charges dropped and expunged Downey plead guilty to at least one of his assault charges in high school.  Financially my impression is that Downey is perpetually broke and Ferrari makes decent money via his social media following.  The wealth difference might also partially explain their relative success in defending their criminal charges.  Overall these factors favor Ferrari.

[Truzzcat]

Downey leading Carter at the break after likely smoking backwoods, and training in a high school at the age of 31 leads me to believe he could have been just about as good as anyone if he was dedicated from the time he graduated HS until present day.

[boconnell]

5 hours ago, fishbane said:

Some might value Ferrari's NCAA title over Downey's freestyle accomplishments, but I am not among them. Academically Downey is the only one with a degree and he has two of them. He might also have some graduate coursework completed.  These factors favor Downey.

I'd definitely take Ferrari's NCAA title over anything on Downey's resume.  

[ionel]

17 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I'd definitely take Ferrari's NCAA title over anything on Downey's resume.  

How many true freshmen have won it at 197?

[Hammerlock3]

not everyone agrees but i think ferrari is a superior on almost every level, the exception might be ferrari is more of social media whore, meaning he doesn't care about anything but image and decides flipping off the crowd in the splits is the only way to win the day, but Downey's twitter would have gotten him booted off any program 3 times over. 

Better wrestler, way harder working, infinitely better "off the mat", equal criminal tendencies(based on rumors), better teammate...

[fishbane]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

How many true freshmen have won it at 197?

The only one I know of is J'den Cox.  Kyle Snyder was pretty close too.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, fishbane said:

The only one I know of is J'den Cox.  Kyle Snyder was pretty close too.

Its a tough weight to win as a true freshman.   That J'den guy turned out to be pretty good. Think what the Focus could've been if not for the dad & uncle.  

[fishbane]

34 minutes ago, ionel said:

Its a tough weight to win as a true freshman.   That J'den guy turned out to be pretty good. Think what the Focus could've been if not for the dad & uncle.  

I'm not sure it's any harder to win as a true freshman than any other weight.  There really aren't that many true freshman champs at any weight.  Below are the number of true freshman champs at each weight since the weight class change in 1999.

125 - 1 (Lee)

133 - None

141 - 3 (Ware, Dake, Diakomihalis)

149 - 1 (Schlatter)

157 - None

165 - None

174 - 2 (Martin, Hall)

184 - None

197 - 2 (Cox, Ferrari)

285 - None

[ionel]

19 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I'm not sure it's any harder to win as a true freshman than any other weight.  There really aren't that many true freshman champs at any weight.  Below are the number of true freshman champs at each weight since the weight class change in 1999.

125 - 1 (Lee)

133 - None

141 - 3 (Ware, Dake, Diakomihalis)

149 - 1 (Schlatter)

157 - None

165 - None

174 - 2 (Martin, Hall)

184 - None

197 - 2 (Cox, Ferrari)

285 - None

There you go just like Wkn bringing facts in to disrupt a good argument. 

[Hammerlock3]

26 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I'm not sure it's any harder to win as a true freshman than any other weight.  There really aren't that many true freshman champs at any weight.  Below are the number of true freshman champs at each weight since the weight class change in 1999.

125 - 1 (Lee)

133 - None

141 - 3 (Ware, Dake, Diakomihalis)

149 - 1 (Schlatter)

157 - None

165 - None

174 - 2 (Martin, Hall)

184 - None

197 - 2 (Cox, Ferrari)

285 - None

i'd be very interested for the breakdown from the previous set of weight classes.

My first thought was that it would be much easier at a lighter weight, but I guess at those weights there is a more likely to be a physical maturity gap, and at HWY you're probably dealing with comparatively mature kids with less skill to differentiate.

[ionel]

https://fordauthority.com/2024/07/2016-ford-focus-st-with-just-33k-miles-up-for-auction/amp/

[fishbane]

6 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i'd be very interested for the breakdown from the previous set of weight classes.

My first thought was that it would be much easier at a lighter weight, but I guess at those weights there is a more likely to be a physical maturity gap, and at HWY you're probably dealing with comparatively mature kids with less skill to differentiate.

I doubt this list is complete, but in the old weights (1970-1998) true freshman champs are Pat Milkovich (126), Darryl Burley (134), Lincoln McIlravy (142), Pat Smith (158), Matt Reiss (167), and Mark Branch (167). 

There have been a couple close calls at 285.  Mocco and Steveson were very close to winning as true freshman. I think Spencer Lee is the only wrestler to win a title as a true freshman at the lightest weight since 1970.  Others have been close.  Megaludis and Nickerson lost in the final as true freshmen.

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I doubt this list is complete, but in the old weights (1970-1998) true freshman champs are Pat Milkovich (126), Darryl Burley (134), Lincoln McIlravy (142), Pat Smith (158), Matt Reiss (167), and Mark Branch (167). 

There have been a couple close calls at 285.  Mocco and Steveson were very close to winning as true freshman. I think Spencer Lee is the only wrestler to win a title as a true freshman at the lightest weight since 1970.  Others have been close.  Megaludis and Nickerson lost in the final as true freshmen.

well thanks, whatever the reason the distribution is way more even than i would have assumed.

[boconnell]

The sample size is tiny on true freshman champs and because of that it can't really tell you much statistically.  I'd love to know a larger sample size like true freshman all-americans by weight class.  That might be a large enough sample size to say something about how weight class affects a true freshman's ability to compete.

[Fletcher]

Both great athletes, but Ferrari could have been a 4 timer, while I don't see Downey winning even one.

On a bigger scale, we're all the actual losers for never getting to see Ferrari v. Brooks compete for a national title (not current Ferrari but what he could have been with some discipline and 4 yrs. under John Smith on the OSU room).

[Wrestleknownothing]

I think the complete list of true freshman first place finishers is:
 

Using today's weights:

125 - 1
133 - 2
141 - 5
149 - 3
157 - 0
165 - 1
174 - 3
184 - 0
197 - 2
285 - 1

* I believe Mark Branch was a redshirt freshman

[Wrestleknownothing]

8 hours ago, boconnell said:

The sample size is tiny on true freshman champs and because of that it can't really tell you much statistically.  I'd love to know a larger sample size like true freshman all-americans by weight class.  That might be a large enough sample size to say something about how weight class affects a true freshman's ability to compete.

 

Bold Red = highest frequency placement by weight

Edited July 8, 2024 by Wrestleknownothing

[Truzzcat]

12 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

 

Bold Red = highest frequency placement by weight

of the 150 true freshman AA's 6 of them or 4% came just last year with Stanich,Bailey,Kasak,Watters,Shapiro,Welsh. 

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Fletcher said:

Both great athletes, but Ferrari could have been a 4 timer, while I don't see Downey winning even one.

On a bigger scale, we're all the actual losers for never getting to see Ferrari v. Brooks compete for a national title (not current Ferrari but what he could have been with some discipline and 4 yrs. under John Smith on the OSU room).

Actually believe the Focus couldve been a 5 timer.

[Wrestleknownothing]

12 minutes ago, ionel said:

Actually believe the Focus couldve been a 5 timer.

True. What a waste.