Are all the Pro-Palestine, anti Israel protests helping or hurting the Democrats?

[braves121]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

How many innocent German and Japanese civilians were required before their respective countries acquiesced?

1.1-3.7 million Germans, and 500k to 1 million Japanese is the answer you are looking for.   https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war

Was winning WWII more important for us than beating Hamas into submission is for Israel?   

When Hamas crowds themselves with civilians, then you have to expect there will be civilian casualties.   You want zero civilian casualties and that is not how war works.  Period.  

Ghengis Kahn didn't work that way.   Atilla the Hun didn't work that way.   Caesar didn't work that way.   Alexander didn't work that way.   Hamas doesn't work that way.   To get to unconditional surrender with Hamas, you have to blow them all away or get close enough that they unconditionally surrender.   They use civilians as shields.   Some will perish.   War is hell as was previously said.  Hamas has the power to stop this.   But they don't and continue to put innocent or not so innocent civilians in danger as human shields so they can get folks like you to say this is unconscionable.   It is calculated on their part.   Again, they take no responsibility for civilians, that is the job for the UN.  

https://cis.org/Rush/Hamas-Official-Protecting-Civilians-Gaza-UN-Refugee-Agencies-Funded-US

Interviewer: Many people are asking, since you have built 500 km of tunnels, why haven’t you built bomb shelters where civilians can hide during bombardments?

Mousa Abu Marzouk (Hamas Political Bureau): We built the tunnels because we have no other way of protecting ourselves from being targeted and killed. These tunnels are meant to protect us [Hamas members] from the airplanes. We are fighting from inside the tunnels.  As for the Gaza strip, you know and everybody knows that 75% of the people in the Gaza strip are refugees. And refugees are the responsibility of the United Nations to protect them.

I have been saying this and did not make it up.   Hamas takes no responsibility for the safety of the Gazans.   Yet they are the governing entity of Gaza.   Doesn't that strike you as somewhat incongruous?  

Shouldn't your ire be more directed at Hamas than at Israel?   On Oct 7, Hamas counted on Israel retaliating and putting the Gazan people in danger of famine, homelessness, refugee-ism etc.   They counted on that so that people get their undies in a bunch.   That was their calculus.   They are playing these people.   These people are jokes and marionettes to Hamas.   They are pulling the strings and these people parrot the talking points they want them to.   I wonder how feels to be played by Hamas?   Because I can see this from thousands of miles away.   People should be angry at Hamas for putting the Gazans in this position, that's who they should be angry at.  

Is it acceptable for Hamas to put 45 lives in danger to save one Hamas soldier or die with that one Hamas soldier?   That is what your question really should be.

mspart

Comparing world war 2 and other conflicts that didn’t happen in the modern era is comparing oranges to apples.  Comparing murderous dictators to first world countries is pretty amazing as well. This is modern warfare, and there is simply no reason to justify murdering 45 civilians in a literal refugee camp lol there’s a reason every country is appalled at this 

[mspart]

Again, Hamas, the puppeteer, is pulling strings.

War is war.   People die.  You cannot honestly say any country has done more to minimize casualties than Israel.   No country has done as much to avoid civilian casualties.   But war is killing people and some will be civilians. 

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi

The US killed 281-315K civilians in Iraq.  

https://www.newarab.com/news/syria-war-death-toll-over-507000-13-years

Syria's war has killed more than 507,000 people, a war monitor said Thursday ahead of the 13th anniversary of the conflict which has displaced millions at home and abroad.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293409/civilian-deaths-related-to-russia-ukraine-conflict/

As of February 15, 2024, 10,582 civilians were reported to have been killed during the Russian invasion of Ukraine

Is anyone concerned about these civilians who have died like for the outcry for Gazans?   Nope, didn't think so.  

mspart

[braves121]

20 minutes ago, mspart said:

Again, Hamas, the puppeteer, is pulling strings.

War is war.   People die.  You cannot honestly say any country has done more to minimize casualties than Israel.   No country has done as much to avoid civilian casualties.   But war is killing people and some will be civilians. 

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi

The US killed 281-315K civilians in Iraq.  

https://www.newarab.com/news/syria-war-death-toll-over-507000-13-years

Syria's war has killed more than 507,000 people, a war monitor said Thursday ahead of the 13th anniversary of the conflict which has displaced millions at home and abroad.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293409/civilian-deaths-related-to-russia-ukraine-conflict/

As of February 15, 2024, 10,582 civilians were reported to have been killed during the Russian invasion of Ukraine

Is anyone concerned about these civilians who have died like for the outcry for Gazans?   Nope, didn't think so.  

mspart

Are you serious???

Many Americans protested the war in Iraq and what happened there during the conflict.

There has been news on the atrocities in Syria and many have been outspoken on it just not in your social circle.

Many have protested the war in ukraine and the media shows all the war crimes that have happened, I believe there is the same warrant out for Putin as they have for Israel leader and hamas leaders.

Edited May 28 by braves121

[mspart]

But did they protest the civilians?   That's my point.   Did anyone protest the Syrian civilians.   Has anyone protested the Ukrainian civilians?   Not with near the ferocity of the Gazan civilians.   If you can't see that Israel does more than anyone else to minimize civilian casualties, then you are unwilling to see truth.   If that is the case, I will agree to disagree with you on this subject. 

mspart

[braves121]

1 minute ago, mspart said:

But did they protest the civilians?   That's my point.   Did anyone protest the Syrian civilians.   Has anyone protested the Ukrainian civilians?   Not with near the ferocity of the Gazan civilians.   If you can't see that Israel does more than anyone else to minimize civilian casualties, then you are unwilling to see truth.   If that is the case, I will agree to disagree with you on this subject. 

mspart

I think the simple fact that Israel murdered 45 civilians after the whole civilized world told them not to invade rafah and predicted this situation would happen amplifies the fact israel does not do anything to minimize civilian casualties

[mspart]

9 minutes ago, braves121 said:

I think the simple fact that Israel murdered 45 civilians after the whole civilized world told them not to invade rafah and predicted this situation would happen amplifies the fact israel does not do anything to minimize civilian casualties

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4285905-obvious-to-us-israel-trying-to-minimize-civilian-casualties-kirby-says/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67449383

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/07/gaza-civilian-casualties-while-hamas-targets-innocent-people-israel-tries-to-spare-them.html

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/wars-and-operations/operation-pillar-of-defence/how-does-the-idf-minimize-harm-to-palestinian-civilians/

These people say you are wrong.

mspart

[braves121]

2 minutes ago, mspart said:

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4285905-obvious-to-us-israel-trying-to-minimize-civilian-casualties-kirby-says/

This article is  from 10/31/2023 when the civilan deaths were not as high as they are now

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67449383

This article literally says Netanyahu himself says Israel is not successful at minimizing civilian casualties

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/07/gaza-civilian-casualties-while-hamas-targets-innocent-people-israel-tries-to-spare-them.html

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/wars-and-operations/operation-pillar-of-defence/how-does-the-idf-minimize-harm-to-palestinian-civilians/

You are citing the literal IDF, that is like the police investigating themselves and finding they did nothing wrong

 

mspart

 

[JimmyBT]

  Hamas brought this on.  The Palestinian people support Hamas.  War is hell.  Don’t start something if you can’t handle the blowback.  

[Offthemat]

 

[Bigbrog]

Braves/TPT/Uncle are the type of people that advocate for the perpetrator of a crime and against the police, all the while having complete disregard for the victim or victims...anyone with that backwards thinking isn't worth arguing with.  

[braves121]

53 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Braves/TPT/Uncle are the type of people that advocate for the perpetrator of a crime and against the police, all the while having complete disregard for the victim or victims...anyone with that backwards thinking isn't worth arguing with.  

I have sympathy for the victims of 10/7. I abhor Hamas. However that doesn’t mean that I can find the fact that it’s disgusting our tax dollars is being used by to kill innocent civilians by a country who has things we don’t like universal healthcare. I can find Hamas to be bad and recognize Israel murdering 45 civilians on is awful especially when the whole world is saying don’t invade Rafah innocent people will be killed

Edited May 29 by braves121

[uncle bernard]

15 hours ago, mspart said:

But did they protest the civilians?   That's my point.   Did anyone protest the Syrian civilians.   Has anyone protested the Ukrainian civilians?   Not with near the ferocity of the Gazan civilians.   If you can't see that Israel does more than anyone else to minimize civilian casualties, then you are unwilling to see truth.   If that is the case, I will agree to disagree with you on this subject. 

mspart

yes. you not paying attention to those things doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. 

[uncle bernard]

11 hours ago, Offthemat said:

 

“It’s not our fault. We only started the fire that killed all those people.”

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

“It’s not our fault. We only started the fire that killed all those people.”

Are you quoting Hamas??

[mspart]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

yes. you not paying attention to those things doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. 

Where were the campus protests?   Where were the threads on chat forums?   They did not happen to the extent that they have for Gazans.   And the only reason why is because it is Israel doing the smashing now.   And for some reason that is a bad thing.   Folks in the middle east are not coming to their aid.   That should tell you something.

mspart

[Lipdrag]

Every Palestinian death since 07 October is Hamas' responsibility.  Hamas could have unconditionally surrendered at any moment between then and now.  Until Hamas surrenders unconditionally the responsibility for every Palestinian death is solely theirs.

Non-Hamas Palestinians can assist in exterminating Hamas.

Or not.

[Bigbrog]

49 minutes ago, Lipdrag said:

Every Palestinian death since 07 October is Hamas' responsibility.  Hamas could have unconditionally surrendered at any moment between then and now.  Until Hamas surrenders unconditionally the responsibility for every Palestinian death is solely theirs.

Non-Hamas Palestinians can assist in exterminating Hamas.

Or not.

Why is this so hard for people to understand??

[mspart]

It does not fit with the anti-semitic leanings of these people.   Look at the demonstrations/riots at colleges recently.   Death to Jews.   River to sea.   Of course they asked a "student" if she said river to sea and she said yes.   Asked if she knew what it meant, she could not answer.   Useful idiots.   Again, the puppet strings are being pulled by Hamas.

mspart

[uncle bernard]

9 hours ago, mspart said:

It does not fit with the anti-semitic leanings of these people.   Look at the demonstrations/riots at colleges recently.   Death to Jews.   River to sea.   Of course they asked a "student" if she said river to sea and she said yes.   Asked if she knew what it meant, she could not answer.   Useful idiots.   Again, the puppet strings are being pulled by Hamas.

mspart

you know this is a lie but you don’t care. shameless. 

[Bigbrog]

10 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

you know this is a lie but you don’t care. shameless. 

Yet you constantly lie and don't care.  shameless

[mspart]

Starting to hear that Hamas reported deaths and the cause of those Rafah deaths are suspect.   The munition Israel sent did not land in the area of the place where multiple people died.   That place was a munitions depot and they went off for a reason still being investigated.     This is opposed to what Hamas has said. 

As we know, Hamas never lies about things like this.  

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-vows-full-probe-into-rafah-strike-shows-evidence-it-was-not-in-designated-safe-zone/

“Following this strike, a large fire ignited, for reasons still being investigated. Our munition alone could not have ignited a fire of this size,” [IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari] he continues.

“Our investigation seeks to determine what may have caused such a large fire to ignite. We are looking into all possibilities, including the option that weapons stored in a compound next to our target, which we did not know of, may have ignited as a result of the strike,” he says.

“It should be noted that Hamas has been operating in this area since October 7,” Hagari says, showing another image showing Hamas rocket launchers 43 meters from the targeted site. “Hamas fired rockets from these launchers at Israel during the massacre on October 7,” Hagari says.

Hagari says the IDF is also looking at “footage, documented by Gazans on the night of the strike, posted on social media, which appeared to show secondary explosions, indicating that there may have been weapons in the area.”

“Signals intelligence intercepted some phone calls that reinforce this concern raising the possibility that weapons stored in a nearby compound caught fire,” he says, before airing one such call in which Gazans discuss the blast and “ammunition that started exploding.”

“Yes, this is an ammunition warehouse. I tell you it exploded. The Jewish bombing wasn’t strong, it was a small missile, because it didn’t create a large hole. And afterward a lot of secondary explosions,” one of the Palestinians is heard saying in the call.

“We are working to verify the cause of the fire. It is still too early to be determined. Even when we do find the cause of the fire that erupted, it won’t make the situation any less tragic,” Hagari says.

“We took a number of steps prior to the strike to avoid civilian casualties. Aerial surveillance, using specific munitions to minimize collateral damage, delaying the attack to further assess the expected civilian presence, and other means,” he continues.

Hagari vows that the investigation will be “swift, comprehensive, and transparent.”

So unsurprisingly, there is another explanation for the Rafah deaths.   And they implicate Hamas and their using civilian areas as weapons depots (human shields).   In fact the article has the audio of the phone call between two Palestinians wondering about how the ammo  warehouse exploded because the Israeli  strike was not that powerful. 

This is not unsurprising in the least because Hamas has a long history of lying about events on the ground. 

mspart

[uncle bernard]

thugs

[uncle bernard]

 

 

[JimmyBT]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/protesting-is-a-pastime-for-the-wealthiest-most-privileged-students/ar-BB1nhW0u?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=85f621b0427e41fd826e0c7da1946d70&ei=54

[Scouts Honor]

On 5/28/2024 at 5:31 PM, braves121 said:

Comparing world war 2 and other conflicts that didn’t happen in the modern era is comparing oranges to apples.  Comparing murderous dictators to first world countries is pretty amazing as well. This is modern warfare, and there is simply no reason to justify murdering 45 civilians in a literal refugee camp lol there’s a reason every country is appalled at this 

I would say Hamas is a group of murderous rulers...