AnklePicker Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 In the second period of the Zahid Brooks match Zahid literally takes a deep shot and then right after he's put on the clock. Nolf literally retreated for the last 2 minutes of his match with Burroughs with not so much as a peep from the ref. Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I really think the whole UWW structure is based around being vague enough to empower referees to do whatever they want. Go to the rules thing at some local tournament, they tell you that controlling center is what defines passivity, then they say if you have scored more points by definition you can't be passive....then they proceed to do whatever they want. they also abuse the shot clock this way. If you ask them why your kid who controlled center and took shots got put on the clock they perk up and tell you it was so they could put they other kid on second and now the right kid is winning! then you point out that your kid scored eventually but they never put the other kid on the clock at all, at which point they start making up stuff. 2 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnklePicker Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Totally agree, it's all over the place. I don't see anything about controlling center in the UWW rulebook. Yet that ia what you hear. Dake was pressuring Nolf but then Dake goes a little extra at the beginning of the second and that's enough to put Nolf on the clock twice? Yet vs JB Nolf can run the entire second period? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Bad reffing is a tale as old as the sport of wrestling itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveira Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I’m hearing. What we really need is more freestyle in folkstyle. This confusion is good for the fans. make it rain! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, Caveira said: I’m hearing. What we really need is more freestyle in folkstyle. This confusion is good for the fans. make it rain! well look at action/stalling in folk, the refs call it completely based on the score, a pushout would solve this, so yeah we need more free in folk. 1 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveira Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 6 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: well look at action/stalling in folk, the refs call it completely based on the score, a pushout would solve this, so yeah we need more free in folk. We need some of those good old fashioned pick up a single and walk them out of bounds like the 3 times it occurred in Lee/Gillman series. That won’t be abused lol. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 6 minutes ago, Caveira said: We need some of those good old fashioned pick up a single and walk them out of bounds like the 3 times it occurred in Lee/Gillman series. That won’t be abused lol. its not abuse, they get one point not two, in folk it would be one not 3. Do you like it better when people stall on the edge or are about to get taken down but hide out of bounds? 1 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveira Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 14 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: its not abuse, they get one point not two, in folk it would be one not 3. Do you like it better when people stall on the edge or are about to get taken down but hide out of bounds? Yes. Folkstyle is way more entertaining. I also like it if they call stalling or fleeing. We have the rules. Call them. Folk is better. More exiting. More fans. It will be abused. Control is required in folk. Easier to sumo imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Caveira said: Yes. Folkstyle is way more entertaining. I also like it if they call stalling or fleeing. We have the rules. Call them. Folk is better. More exiting. More fans. It will be abused. Control is required in folk. Easier to sumo imo. ok well I don't agree with any of that but fair enough. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbane Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, Caveira said: I also like it if they call stalling or fleeing. We have the rules. Call them. Folk is better. I think the step out is far superior to fleeing or stalling. It is black and white did the whole foot leave the wrestling area. It turns a judgement call (stalling and fleeing) into something objective. I favour that. Straight arm pushout and grounded exceptions kind of annoying aspects to it, but in comparison to stalling/fleeing are a net positive. OP's complaint was about passivity judgement calls not step outs. Removing the step out and replacing it with fleeing/passivity would just create more of these. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveira Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 26 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: ok well I don't agree with any of that but fair enough. I don’t wanna argue with you. You’re a respected poster. No worries sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 minutes ago, Caveira said: I don’t wanna argue with you. You’re a respected poster. No worries sir. thank you for a generous characterization. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveira Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said: thank you for a generous characterization. Ha. We won’t move off our beliefs per se. We’re all wrestling fans. Good old fashion let’s just agree to disagree. Move on…… have some bbq and a beer and what not. It’s all good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlingshoe Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 We could change it to they way the score (judge) figure skating. Or maybe boxing or MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragit Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 50 minutes ago, fishbane said: I think the step out is far superior to fleeing or stalling. It is black and white did the whole foot leave the wrestling area. It turns a judgement call (stalling and fleeing) into something objective. I favour that. Straight arm pushout and grounded exceptions kind of annoying aspects to it, but in comparison to stalling/fleeing are a net positive. OP's complaint was about passivity judgement calls not step outs. Removing the step out and replacing it with fleeing/passivity would just create more of these. I agree with this well put post and have argued for the same result and still do. But I have to admit that there probably ain't much more action in these world and Olympic team finals matches than there is in NCAA finals matches, maybe less. I think the wrestlers have gotten so good at keeping the freestyle matches under control and minimizing risk that they've managed to find a way to cause a similar problem re action that many of us have complained about in folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, AnklePicker said: Totally agree, it's all over the place. I don't see anything about controlling center in the UWW rulebook. Yet that ia what you hear. Dake was pressuring Nolf but then Dake goes a little extra at the beginning of the second and that's enough to put Nolf on the clock twice? Yet vs JB Nolf can run the entire second period? https://www.usawmembership.com/usa_wrestling_rule_book.pdf Check the section on passivity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker_Du Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 4 hours ago, AnklePicker said: Nolf literally retreated for the last 2 minutes of his match with Burroughs with not so much as a peep from the ref. Please explain. i'm reluctant to say this b/c psu fans will think i have some sort of agenda but... i have never seen a period called like that. not one passive call on nolf. not even a warning. it was odd as hell. 3 TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnklePicker Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 6 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: https://www.usawmembership.com/usa_wrestling_rule_book.pdf Check the section on passivity Yeah it's there but it is not in the official rules which are put out by UWW. In fact the USA rule book states the following: *The official UWW rule book supersedes this publication at all times. This rule book does not reflect rule modifications for UWW qualifiers or international competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 21 minutes ago, AnklePicker said: Yeah it's there but it is not in the official rules which are put out by UWW. In fact the USA rule book states the following: *The official UWW rule book supersedes this publication at all times. This rule book does not reflect rule modifications for UWW qualifiers or international competitions. https://uww.org/governance/regulations-olympic-wrestling It is in there too, though the wording is different and odd (avoiding the Wrestling in the center of the mat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnklePicker Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 This is the wording: Anytime the refereeing body agrees a wrestler is blocking, interlocking fingers, thwarting his opponent and/or generally avoiding wrestling: It doesn't say anything about the center of the mat. You can avoid wrestling in the center of the mat just as easily as you can on the edge. In fact you risk stepping out if you do so on the edge. This center of the mat stuff is USA wrestling's interpretation. With that said Nolf was all over the damn mat and not a peep. You could hear Slay yelling what are you doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 9 minutes ago, AnklePicker said: This is the wording: Anytime the refereeing body agrees a wrestler is blocking, interlocking fingers, thwarting his opponent and/or generally avoiding wrestling: It doesn't say anything about the center of the mat. You can avoid wrestling in the center of the mat just as easily as you can on the edge. In fact you risk stepping out if you do so on the edge. This center of the mat stuff is USA wrestling's interpretation. With that said Nolf was all over the damn mat and not a peep. You could hear Slay yelling what are you doing? The paranthetical in my post is a quote from the UWW version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnklePicker Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 10 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: The paranthetical in my post is a quote from the UWW version. What page is that on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 7 hours ago, Husker_Du said: i'm reluctant to say this b/c psu fans will think i have some sort of agenda but... i have never seen a period called like that. not one passive call on nolf. not even a warning. it was odd as hell. It was almost like there was some sort of agenda! How about the two overturned calls? Super weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 31 minutes ago, AnklePicker said: This is the wording: Anytime the refereeing body agrees a wrestler is blocking, interlocking fingers, thwarting his opponent and/or generally avoiding wrestling: It doesn't say anything about the center of the mat. You can avoid wrestling in the center of the mat just as easily as you can on the edge. In fact you risk stepping out if you do so on the edge. This center of the mat stuff is USA wrestling's interpretation. With that said Nolf was all over the damn mat and not a peep. You could hear Slay yelling what are you doing? Another weird thing is that it was also written in another language, so stuff can get lost in translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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