Coach Manning calling a spade a spade!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

But needing to go to the bench is always occasional. You can add Nick Lee's freshman year to that when they pulled his redshirt after Jered Cortez got hurt.

Sure, but it's not like they have a lineup of backups that can place top ten in the nation, as I've read on another forum.  And if they do, it is a new thing.  They have put out some pretty mediocre backups in the past.

However, the next few years they may indeed have a fantastic squad of backups.

[alex1fly]

No way. Lower the matches required to zero. That way the athletes can be completely fresh.

 

In all seriousness I know this is a hot take but a seedless tournament would be so fascinating to watch.

[jajensen09]

3 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Wilson failed to make NCAAs because there are 33 better wrestlers than  him. No other reason. Had Starocci wrestled Wilson still would not have made NCAAs. 

Proving my point. If starcocci wrestles it takes out byes dropping everywhere in the bracket

[Dogbone]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It is curious that he used Schlatter as an example. Schlatter also entered both tournaments and double defaulted both tournaments. Schlatter also kept someone out of the NCAA tournament. He is only different from Starocci because of his seed at the B1G tournament.

I also find it humorous because Starocci did not keep Wilson out of the tournament. If Starocci is seeded 14 and double injury defaults, he is still in and Wilson is still 35th in a 33 man bracket.

And you can play the, yeah but what if the bracket was different game. If Starocci was the #14 and everyone bumped up then Wilson gets Maylor in round 1, who he had lost to in the dual (4-2) to start his 2-6 slide to end the season, and end his season.

If the results in the dual were always the same then they shouldn't have a tournament...   That is kind of the point.   The 8th place finisher didn't win a match and took a bid from someone.  

I wish I was shocked about the amount of people that are discounting the comments because Wilson wasn't better.  Bubba Wilson isn't the point he is making but he is fighting for his guy so that is the example being used.  Wilson is the 34th or 35th guy doesn't negate the point. 

[jajensen09]

2 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

No way. Lower the matches required to zero. That way the athletes can be completely fresh.

 

In all seriousness I know this is a hot take but a seedless tournament would be so fascinating to watch.

Sounds like a great way to kill the sport

[NM1965]

I'm not so sure that Schlatter vs Starocci is a legitimate comparison anyway. Schlatter basically had a career ending injury prior to Big 10s but Starocci finished teching the last opponent he wrestled before Big 10s. Schlatter was held out of Big 10s in the crazy hope that he would recover in time for NCAAs, which he didn't, whereas Starocci walked around last weekend complaining that he wanted to wrestle and was held out of the tournament by his coach in an abundance of caution, not because he couldn't necessarily compete. 

[jajensen09]

1 minute ago, Dogbone said:

If the results in the dual were always the same then they shouldn't have a tournament...   That is kind of the point.   The 8th place finisher didn't win a match and took a bid from someone.  

I wish I was shocked about the amount of people that are discounting the comments because Wilson wasn't better.  Bubba Wilson isn't the point he is making but he is fighting for his guy so that is the example being used.  Wilson is the 34th or 35th guy doesn't negate the point. 

Spot on!

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Dogbone said:

If the results in the dual were always the same then they shouldn't have a tournament...   That is kind of the point.   The 8th place finisher didn't win a match and took a bid from someone.  

I wish I was shocked about the amount of people that are discounting the comments because Wilson wasn't better.  Bubba Wilson isn't the point he is making but he is fighting for his guy so that is the example being used.  Wilson is the 34th or 35th guy doesn't negate the point. 

Perhaps. But, as someone who is not a big believer in coincidences, Manning chose to complain because it was about his wrestler more than it was about the process. I have my doubts Manning would have said, let me tell you about my guys' injuries so that you can lower their seeds.

[Dogbone]

40 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He's not wrong. PSU gamed the Suriano situation to try to minimize Picc's tournament scoring.  And it worked! It comes down to "what's the important thing?"  PSU coaches, is it solely their job to win, or do they bear some responsibility to "do right by the sport"?  I see both side of that argument.

 

ETA: i don't think the Starocci example is the same situation as Suriano.

This is the exactly the issue.  Coaches will always do what's best for them and the team (I don't blame any of them or Cael for doing so).  It doesn't make it the best for the sport.  

Wrestling less matches and having duck season only hurts the sport.  It's NOT the coaches job to grow or maintain the sport but they are the stewards for the sport, like it or not.    They almost need to hold each other accountable even if is ruffles some feathers.

[Pinnacle]

14 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

No way. Lower the matches required to zero. That way the athletes can be completely fresh.

 

In all seriousness I know this is a hot take but a seedless tournament would be so fascinating to watch.

The number already is zero. You can be 0-0 and wrestle in your league championship and qualify for NCAAs. An at large would require more, of course. 

Edited March 19 by Pinnacle

[NM1965]

Well since Manning apparently believes everybody deserves to wrestle at NCAAs why don't they just invite starters from all the teams? It would only add a couple more matches to the tournament anyway. 

[Pinnacle]

6 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I'm not so sure that Schlatter vs Starocci is a legitimate comparison anyway. Schlatter basically had a career ending injury prior to Big 10s but Starocci finished teching the last opponent he wrestled before Big 10s. Schlatter was held out of Big 10s in the crazy hope that he would recover in time for NCAAs, which he didn't, whereas Starocci walked around last weekend complaining that he wanted to wrestle and was held out of the tournament by his coach in an abundance of caution, not because he couldn't necessarily compete. 

If they change the rule to force a recovering wrestler to wrestle his league championship to qualify it probably won't be a Cael Sanderson wrestler that takes the mat because PSU can win despite losing one wrestler. 

Nebraska on the other hand might send a guy out there and the guy will get wrecked. Kharma works that way. 

[jajensen09]

5 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

If they change the rule to force a recovering wrestler to wrestle his league championship to qualify it probably won't be a Cael Sanderson wrestler that takes the mat because PSU can win despite losing one wrestler. 

Nebraska on the other hand might send a guy out there and the guy will get wrecked. Kharma works that way. 

Not the point 

Edited March 19 by jajensen09

[Scouts Honor]

35 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

So he shouldn't be allowed to wrestle in nationals?

in fairness, he met the qualifying standard at the Big tourney

[Dogbone]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Perhaps. But, as someone who is not a big believer in coincidences, Manning chose to complain because it was about his wrestler more than it was about the process. I have my doubts Manning would have said, let me tell you about my guys' injuries so that you can lower their seeds.

Didn't say it is a coincidence.  Manning is complaining because he thinks it impacted his guy (maybe it didn't) but he is fighting for his guy. 

You don't think Manning would do what JRobb did? Why? Just because Cael, doesn't?    If you go back to his original tweet, he specifically referenced when the coaches asked Cael at B1Gs if Suriano was wrestling so they could seed accordingly and Cael respond with you will have to see tomorrow, when he knew he wasn't wrestling a B1Gs, so he got the 1 seed.   

Its is not the exact situation as Schlatter nor is it exactly like Carter.   Not every situation is the same.  Is there gamesmanship being played, absolutely.   You can like the gamesmanship because it benefits your team or because Cael tells you to like it or you can hate it because it impacts your team. 

But maybe we should eliminate the gamesmanship  when it comes to qualifiers, is not that crazy of a position.  

[JimmyCinnabon]

53 minutes ago, jajensen09 said:

People/coaches/Ncaa need to hold Cael responsible for all his shenanigans. 

Or, and this might sound crazy, the reason that Cael isn't held accountable for these shenanigans that people seem to believe are occurring is that shenanigans aren't happening and there isn't anything to hold him accountable for. 

Either Cael is getting away with all kinds of shenanigans and nobody is willing to do anything about it (why wouldn't people do something about it)? Or the simple answer in that Cael isn't some devious mastermind of shenanigans that people seem to think he is. 

And by the way, former PSU wrestler Matt McCutcheon responded to Manning's accusations about Suriano and said Nick was truly making every attempt to wrestle in that NCAA tournament, up to and including the night before the tournament. 

[jajensen09]

10 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Well since Manning apparently believes everybody deserves to wrestle at NCAAs why don't they just invite starters from all the teams? It would only add a couple more matches to the tournament anyway. 

Holy Cow you aren't paying attention at all

[Idaho]

 

13 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Well since Manning apparently believes everybody deserves to wrestle at NCAAs why don't they just invite starters from all the teams? It would only add a couple more matches to the tournament anyway. 

Is that what he is saying? 

 

3 minutes ago, jajensen09 said:

Holy Cow you aren't paying attention at all

Apparently not.... the teenager extreme argument. 

[JimmyCinnabon]

29 minutes ago, jajensen09 said:

So should the NFL only play starters half the year? 

Any NFL head coach can use his players as he sees fit. He can play them one game or seventeen. That's how it works.

[Dogbone]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

And by the way, former PSU wrestler Matt McCutcheon responded to Manning's accusations about Suriano and said Nick was truly making every attempt to wrestle in that NCAA tournament, up to and including the night before the tournament. 

Yes, it is mentioned in the article, linked in the original post, that I guess you didn't read.

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, NM1965 said:

I've watched lots of NU duals but I've never seen Manning acting like any more of a fruitcake than other coaches, especially the Brands. But I've never heard the Brand's boys mewling like bitches over people from other teams defaulting out, either. Manning sounds like an excuse-making Karen to me. 

If Brands is your standard-bearer...

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

I think he feels that Starocci being seeded 1st and defaulting basically blew up the bracket, costing Wilson a spot, not that Wilson should be in over Starocci.  It's definitely a loser's lament on Manning's part.

Wilson had all season to not end up with 16W - 12L as his record.

[Rassling]

The sport needs more Mannings to step up to the plate to voice their concerns. Seems like he’s been holding in these thoughts for sometime.

Edited March 19 by Rassling

[VakAttack]

8 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Wilson had all season to not end up with 16W - 12L as his record.

I agree. In my head the arguments are separate.

[NM1965]

19 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

If Brands is your standard-bearer...

Brands is a complete fruitcake, we all know that, but I never hear Brands bellyaching like Mark Manning.