Another D1 program goes bust

[1032004]

9 hours ago, TexRef said:

I am not sure what the situation was with Leeth at Stanford, but going from Palo Alto, CA to Stephenville, TX has got to be a culture shock for a younger coach. 

I posted this when it was announced but if you’ve taken a gander at Leeth’s x/twitter account, I feel pretty confident in saying he’ll like Stephenville much better.

[TexRef]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I posted this when it was announced but if you’ve taken a gander at Leeth’s x/twitter account, I feel pretty confident in saying he’ll like Stephenville much better.

That's good. I hope they get a HS program there too. If I'm not mistaken, the nearest HS program is about 45 minutes away. 

[flyingcement]

I find it interesting that the wrestling community seems to be largely independent-minded and fiscally conservative in such a way to discourage the philosophy of relying on handouts.  In the case of college wrestling, the sport doesn't turn a profit in any school (as far as I am aware) and so in spite of believing the former, we require donations from others (either individual donors or profit from other sports at the same college covering our tab) just for the right to exist.

Edited March 19 by flyingcement

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Right- he didn't medal in 88 which is what I saw (it didn't mention 88 in the one list)

I'm guessing the pictured bout was in 92 when both tried out at 125.5

So he was 31 ish?  Absolutely ancient in 92!

[nhs67]

On 3/17/2024 at 1:33 PM, forkemaz said:

The insane pettiness to say something like this. Sure he's in the .1% but he's acting like he's in .01% and he ain't. Lmao whatever. This board is wild.

Not defending the post you are responding to, but saying that John Smith has 'only' accomplished 10x as much in this sport as Chertow is selling John Smith extremely short.

[nhs67]

9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I posted this when it was announced but if you’ve taken a gander at Leeth’s x/twitter account, I feel pretty confident in saying he’ll like Stephenville much better.

Leeth is a class act and doesn't mind speaking his mind.  That is rare to see in today's internet world where folks are always so willing to compromise their moral code just to simply win an internet argument.

He will get the right guys and hopefully we see a sort of surge like we have at Little Rock.

If he gets the chance, that is.  A lot of hurdles to get over to get to full D1 level.  I hope we get to see it.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

13 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Leeth is a class act and doesn't mind speaking his mind.  That is rare to see in today's internet world where folks are always so willing to compromise their moral code just to simply win an internet argument.

He will get the right guys and hopefully we see a sort of surge like we have at Little Rock.

If he gets the chance, that is.  A lot of hurdles to get over to get to full D1 level.  I hope we get to see it.

Do we know ho realistic it is to fundraise $2M prior to next season to get them going? I’m sure some small donors will help out, hell I even sent some money, but they need someone with deep pockets. I saw someone was willing ti match the first $100,000 raised, but is $2M happening anytime soon? What happens to the raised money if they don’t hit NCAA status? Are the just going to be a hella funded NWCA team?

[1032004]

56 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

Do we know ho realistic it is to fundraise $2M prior to next season to get them going? I’m sure some small donors will help out, hell I even sent some money, but they need someone with deep pockets. I saw someone was willing ti match the first $100,000 raised, but is $2M happening anytime soon? What happens to the raised money if they don’t hit NCAA status? Are the just going to be a hella funded NWCA team?

 

[Ched64]

On 3/17/2024 at 11:31 AM, Greenwave said:

Does anyone know the reason he really left?   I disagree with the earlier post on letting the smaller programs shut down.   They are turning into feeder programs for big schools and this gives more wrestlers the opportunity to wrestle in college.

Feeder programs for the big schools? This is what NIL and the transfer portal have wrought.  Now all the mid tier programs are the St Louis Browns for the Yanks.  You are witnessing the end of college athletics as we once knew it.  Dirty at times yes but providing opportunities to a broad array of kids to go to college.  As these schools lose their best athletes…diamonds in the rough if you will…the bigs come in and gobble them up leaving the teams as doormats and what little attendance and donor $ they were getting heading for the exits.  This is only the beginning.  These canaries are sending us a warning but “there aint nothing we can do about it”!

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

Don't forget that D2 William Jewell College in suburban Kansas City, MO "paused" their men's program this past September, with their team on campus, and only three years after they brought it back from the proverbial grave.

Most private schools are struggling financially, especially those tied to religions. Donors are aging and dying, fewer younger folks are attending said schools for religious pursuits, and tuition costs are spiraling out of control. The second "enrollment cliff" is predicted to hit again within the next five years, and you'll see a lot of these small schools either cutting budgets to the bone via eliminating programs or closing all together. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

7 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 

This seems promising, looks like a standalone facility? 
 

Either way, ***duck** yeah Tarleton State! My $20 made this happen! 

[Rassling]

10 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

Do we know ho realistic it is to fundraise $2M prior to next season to get them going? I’m sure some small donors will help out, hell I even sent some money, but they need someone with deep pockets. I saw someone was willing ti match the first $100,000 raised, but is $2M happening anytime soon? What happens to the raised money if they don’t hit NCAA status? Are the just going to be a hella funded NWCA team?

perhaps some of these big shots boasting about spending 5K to attend the NCAA event could to donate that money to a struggling school(s) and just stay at home like the rest of us and watch it on the big screen.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

2 hours ago, Rassling said:

perhaps some of these big shots boasting about spending 5K to attend the NCAA event could to donate that money to a struggling school(s) and just stay at home like the rest of us and watch it on the big screen.

To be fair $5k isn’t going far for any athletics facility. My friend and are we’re talking about doing a camp to raise that much and donate it, but at the end of the day that buys like 2 treadmills or something. 

[1032004]

On 3/17/2024 at 11:31 AM, Greenwave said:

Does anyone know the reason he really left?   I disagree with the earlier post on letting the smaller programs shut down.   They are turning into feeder programs for big schools and this gives more wrestlers the opportunity to wrestle in college.

I believe their coach prior to this season left pretty abruptly as well, so now seeing them cut the program in this case it may not have actually been Chertow’s fault.

I doubt Queens would have really been a “feeder program” for anyone though, but yes it would have provided more D1 opportunities 

 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

I believe their coach prior to this season left pretty abruptly as well, so now seeing them cut the program in this case it may not have actually been Chertow’s fault.

I doubt Queens would have really been a “feeder program” for anyone though, but yes it would have provided more D1 opportunities 

 

Probably would have stuck around if not for the push to D1. Seems that schools that can’t handle bringing over the scope of athletic’s offered shouldn’t be able to transition. 
 

I'm all for D1 teams, but D2 and D3 is also great. Is queens going to be competitive in any sport or is this just a money grab for a school smaller than the average NAIA and D3 school…

[Animal197]

I just got back from the NCWA tournament and can confirm that coach Leeth is a class act. They asked him to speak about the importance of fundraising at the coaches meeting. TSU just had (what I think is) their first All-American (or one of their first) in this year’s tournaments. Hopefully their success at that level helps their fundraising efforts.

[WrestlingRash]

On 3/18/2024 at 9:45 AM, TexRef said:

I am not sure what the situation was with Leeth at Stanford, but going from Palo Alto, CA to Stephenville, TX has got to be a culture shock for a younger coach. 

Wasn't he from Missouri? I would think moving to Palo Alto would be a huge culture in its own right. It's the kind of place where you are considered a racist homophobe if you don't have pronouns in your email signature. 

[WrestlingRash]

On 3/17/2024 at 2:27 PM, gimpeltf said:

One year as I was at PIAAs, I heard an announcement about Chertow's Camps. Before the announcement was over, I got an email about the same! 

Chertow made one huge mistake in his hustle - instead of paying a few grand to get the hottest names in wrestling to come in a be clinicians at his camps, he made the camps about him. This is stupid because 1) there is only 1 Ken Chertow and he can't run multiple camp locations simultaneously 2) he has to continually market himself in order to convince kids and their parents that he is relevant 3) he can only run camps for so long before the body gives out, limiting the life of his business and the hard work he put in to growing a camp business.  

[WrestlingRash]

 

On 3/18/2024 at 9:48 PM, flyingcement said:

I find it interesting that the wrestling community seems to be largely independent-minded and fiscally conservative in such a way to discourage the philosophy of relying on handouts.  In the case of college wrestling, the sport doesn't turn a profit in any school (as far as I am aware) and so in spite of believing the former, we require donations from others (either individual donors or profit from other sports at the same college covering our tab) just for the right to exist.

I don't think people mind relying on handouts. I get calls from college programs during their fundraisers all the time. I had 5 coaches ask for donations this year alone. If I wasn't such a broke ass, I would gladly help. The real issue is that coaches don't understand they need to be a professional fundraiser. You can hire a group to do this for you, but it has to be a top priority - a higher priority than hiring a 3 time AA to be your 3rd assistant coach. Any coach at ANY level of college wrestling who isn't actively working to become cost neutral to the athletic department is putting their program at risk. Camps and a big youth tournament are the best way to bring in big bucks, unless you find that rare case of a super high net worth individual who can fund an endowment. You can get 5% of your endowment every year, so each school should be working towards a minimum of 10M in the bank. This is not an insignificant amount of money so you need a multi year plan to get it done - something like 10 years.

 

Wrestling is at a higher risk of going away than ever before and the focus needs to be shifted to becoming professional fundraisers. 

[Rassling]

47 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

 

I don't think people mind relying on handouts. I get calls from college programs during their fundraisers all the time. I had 5 coaches ask for donations this year alone. If I wasn't such a broke ass, I would gladly help. The real issue is that coaches don't understand they need to be a professional fundraiser. You can hire a group to do this for you, but it has to be a top priority - a higher priority than hiring a 3 time AA to be your 3rd assistant coach. Any coach at ANY level of college wrestling who isn't actively working to become cost neutral to the athletic department is putting their program at risk. Camps and a big youth tournament are the best way to bring in big bucks, unless you find that rare case of a super high net worth individual who can fund an endowment. You can get 5% of your endowment every year, so each school should be working towards a minimum of 10M in the bank. This is not an insignificant amount of money so you need a multi year plan to get it done - something like 10 years.

 

Wrestling is at a higher risk of going away than ever before and the focus needs to be shifted to becoming professional fundraisers. 

For me, investing in wrestling during the early years is like investing in gold. Wrestling is gold to me yet where are the investors? Where have you been besides online at all hours of the night? What have YOU done to solidify our base over the years so our foundation is strong today? The movers and the shakers in the worlds oldest sport have FAILED to protect the sport for future generations to come  The young talented kids have no idea just how fragile the sport truly is and it’s largely  attributable to those with only clown emojis in their arsenal.

Anyone following the upcoming MMA 300 via  Bo coming up? Of course not, but the answer to elevate this sport through the stratosphere is right in front of our eyes. MMA enjoys much success through its former wrestlers. From what I can see, none of YOU have yet to connect the dots.  

If wrestling goes the same route as the Dodo bird it should be front and center on the resume of those who thought they meant something when in fact they meant very little. 

Edited March 20 by Rassling

[WrestlingRash]

2 minutes ago, Rassling said:

For me, investing in wrestling during the early years is like investing in gold. Wrestling is gold to me yet where are the investors? Where have you been besides online at all hours of the night? What have YOU done to solidify our base over the years so our foundation is strong today? The movers and the shakers in the worlds oldest sport have FAILED to protect the sport for future generations to come  The young talented kids have no idea just how fragile the sport truly is and it’s 100% attributable to those with only clown emojis in their arsenal. 

Anyone following the upcoming MMA 300 incoming Bo coming up? Of course not, but the answer to elevate this sport through the stratosphere is right in front of our eyes. MMA enjoys much success through its former wrestlers. From what I can see, none of YOU have yet to connect the dots. 
 

 

so your plan is for mma to subsidize wrestling? the argument that mma is big so wrestling can get money from them seems to be half baked, at best. 

[Rassling]

1 minute ago, WrestlingRash said:

so your plan is for mma to subsidize wrestling? the argument that mma is big so wrestling can get money from them seems to be half baked, at best. 

There are a dozen more Bo’s in the making for MMA with minimal if any wrestling no-it-alls capable of selling the connection so we get an infusion of serious $$$$.

[WrestlingRash]

Just now, Rassling said:

There are a dozen more Bo’s in the making for MMA with minimal if any wrestling no-it-alls capable of selling the connection so we get an infusion of serious $$$$.

MMA has a huge pool of talent to choose from. They don't care about getting the best, they care about entertainment value of their fights. Wrestlers win, sure, but the UFC doesn't need them to be successful. Dana White isn't going to put a single penny into wrestling and even if all D1 programs went belly up, he would make the same money. Where is the return on their investment? There isn't one. 

[Rassling]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

MMA has a huge pool of talent to choose from. They don't care about getting the best, they care about entertainment value of their fights. Wrestlers win, sure, but the UFC doesn't need them to be successful. Dana White isn't going to put a single penny into wrestling and even if all D1 programs went belly up, he would make the same money. Where is the return on their investment? There isn't one. 

I rest my case. 

[BaldAt23]

On 3/18/2024 at 12:27 PM, WrestlingRash said:

This is another case of hiring a coach who doesn't realize his first priority should be finding a way to be self sustaining financially. The cost of running a program is not small. When you include salaries, benefits, trainers/sports medicine, travel, scholarships, equipment and facilities, you are looking at 300-500K a year. Raising that kind of money for that kind of program is a real challenge, but you have club, camps, fund raisers etc. and should be able to put together a 5 year plan to make it happen. Until we become fully self funding, we will always be the first sport to get chopped.  

I think 300k-500k is way off. It would probably be more like 600k-1 million if I had to guess.