Hawkeyes finish 4th

[Maxwell Smart]

No individual titles with 1 wrestler in the finals. Michigan and Nebraska finish ahead and several teams have more in the finals. Ohio State's team is young and talented. National talent at an all time high with 5-6 year seniors and incoming freshman ready to go. Teams are passing the Hawkeyes, they were once trying to catch up. IMO

 

[PortaJohn]

Props to T&T for putting out a formidable team after getting decimated with the gambling probe

[CHROMEBIRD]

Maybe Brands doesn't think he's in trouble? He should know if he's in trouble. When you get in trouble, like when you're in trouble, is when you don't know you're in trouble, but when you get in trouble and if you know you're in trouble then you always end up on top. 

[Pinnacle]

2 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Maybe Brands doesn't think he's in trouble? He should know if he's in trouble. When you get in trouble, like when you're in trouble, is when you don't know you're in trouble, but when you get in trouble and if you know you're in trouble then you always end up on top. 

First rate. Imitation seems sincere.

[Maxwell Smart]

Props to T&T, are you serious? You're headed to 3-4th every year, and that's just theBig Ten. 

[PortaJohn]

22 minutes ago, Maxwell Smart said:

Props to T&T, are you serious? You're headed to 3-4th every year, and that's just theBig Ten. 

I'm a PSU fan

Edited March 11 by PortaJohn

[ionel]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

I'm a PSU fan

Jimmy ... is that you?

[PortaJohn]

Just now, ionel said:

Jimmy ... is that you?

OH MY GOD!  This is how it happens.  All these years I didn't realize how it happened to Jimmy.  Thank you for saving my life Ionel

[Maxwell Smart]

The first post on this forum pointed out that the Hawkeyes haven't had near the success they had after the first 3 years of the Brands brothers and the brothers get all the raves about how they develop talent. Look at the program after that 3 year run; 14 years - How many NCAA titles?  How many individual champions? Several teams have more individual champions, and don't compare them to PSU, it's very obvious who has the teams ready every year.   Lehigh, Cornell, Ohio State and others now compete with the Hawks for a trophy. I knew this was a Hawkeye dominated forum. If someone opines their thoughts on the Brands brothers, the sick-o-phants(sp) come out in full force.

 

[Ivan Stankowski]

The Badgers finished 8th with one wrestler in the finals, Go Bono!!!

[PSULou64]

They didn't have a great tournament. It does happen and if that was the sole issue with the Brands' tenure it could easily be overlooked as an outlier but the reality is there are many issues that they have had and are having.  Some are on the mat and some are off but for me the biggest issue I see tends to be the underperformance of their top recruits when it matters most. They just seem to have trouble getting their guys over that hump and compete up to their potential.

[TexRef]

1 hour ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

The Badgers finished 8th with one wrestler in the finals, Go Bono!!!

Those kinds of performances kept Minkel at Michigan State for many years. They are stuck with Bono! 

[TheDFP]

Wonder what the new AD at Iowa is thinking.......  Gambling, Ferrari debacle, declining program results, regional training center results, alumni expectations  

[NM1965]

14 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Maybe Brands doesn't think he's in trouble? He should know if he's in trouble. When you get in trouble, like when you're in trouble, is when you don't know you're in trouble, but when you get in trouble and if you know you're in trouble then you always end up on top. 

Are you imitating Tom Brands or Donald Trump? 

[NM1965]

15 minutes ago, TheDFP said:

Wonder what the new AD at Iowa is thinking.......  Gambling, Ferrari debacle, declining program results, regional training center results, alumni expectations  

The Hawkeyes have a great deal going with Tom and Terry, counting both those dudes they have a collective IQ of 130

[ionel]

19 minutes ago, TheDFP said:

Wonder what the new AD at Iowa is thinking.......  Gambling, Ferrari debacle, declining program results, regional training center results, alumni expectations and no more love from kMflap.

ftfy

[NM1965]

1 hour ago, PSULou64 said:

They didn't have a great tournament. It does happen and if that was the sole issue with the Brands' tenure it could easily be overlooked as an outlier but the reality is there are many issues that they have had and are having.  Some are on the mat and some are off but for me the biggest issue I see tends to be the underperformance of their top recruits when it matters most. They just seem to have trouble getting their guys over that hump and compete up to their potential.

They aren't the only one. I can't remember the last time the coaching at Oklahoma State made a wrestler better. Daton Fix is exactly the same guy he was when he got to OSU 6 years ago. He may have actually regressed a little because last year he only finished 4th instead of 2nd like all his other years. Dustin Plott is the exact same guy he's been for the last 3 years on the mat, maybe slightly more consistent now as a Jr. Luke Surber has, if anything, regressed from his Fr year.  

[Dogbone]

Not an Iowa fan, but Iowa was the favorite in 2020, National Champs in 2021 and were runner up last year.  I don't think anyone was beating PSU this year but the gambling issues didn't help Iowa.

The race for 2nd is still very wide open. Just because Michigan finished 2nd doesn't mean they will be the 2nd highest team at NCAAs. 

 

[Pinnacle]

5 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Not an Iowa fan, but Iowa was the favorite in 2020, National Champs in 2021 and were runner up last year.  I don't think anyone was beating PSU this year but the gambling issues didn't help Iowa.

The race for 2nd is still very wide open. Just because Michigan finished 2nd doesn't mean they will be the 2nd highest team at NCAAs. 

 

I think they could lose some points at 174 with Griffiths knee injury. 

[Elevator]

19 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Not an Iowa fan, but Iowa was the favorite in 2020, National Champs in 2021 and were runner up last year.  I don't think anyone was beating PSU this year but the gambling issues didn't help Iowa.

The race for 2nd is still very wide open. Just because Michigan finished 2nd doesn't mean they will be the 2nd highest team at NCAAs. 

 

Good analysis - not a fan but I think the coaches at Iowa are a good fit.  It is still a magnet program and will have plenty of success going forward.

[VakAttack]

It was always going to be a down year after the gambling suspensions.  They just won the title  two years ago and were favorites for another before COVID hit.  I know people love to beat up on Iowa (and I get why) but the program is fine.  There are issues, like every program but PSU, but they're consistently the second best program in the nation.  If they had Cass and either Brands or Assad at 184, they're a favorite for 2nd.

 

The biggest real issue, as a fan and observer, is the scrambling deficiencies.  

[NM1965]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

It was always going to be a down year after the gambling suspensions.  They just won the title  two years ago and were favorites for another before COVID hit.  I know people love to beat up on Iowa (and I get why) but the program is fine.  There are issues, like every program but PSU, but they're consistently the second best program in the nation.  If they had Cass and either Brands or Assad at 184, they're a favorite for 2nd.

 

The biggest real issue, as a fan and observer, is the scrambling deficiencies.  

Is Eierman on the staff at Iowa? He seems like an easy hire to address scrambling deficiencies. 

[TylerDurden]

Even with the suspended guys, I'm not sure Iowa does better than third. They finished 7.5 points behind Nebraska and 13 points behind Michigan for second.

Cassioppi is obviously the one who had the most potential to outscore the replacement, as he was +6.5 last year versus what they got from Hill. He was a big scorer at 3rd place last year and he was a potential finalist. They would have been in a battle for third. I don't think they would have caught Michigan, but we'll never know. 

157 Siebrecht (8.5 points in 23) vs Franek (4th, 11.5 points)

174 Brands (9 points in 23) vs Kennedy (5th, 11.5 points)

184 Assad (7.5 points in 23) vs. Riggins (10th, 7 points)

285 Cassioppi (16.5 points in 23) vs Hill (5th, 10 points) 

Regardless of what might have happened, it was always going to be a slight rebuild in Iowa City this year. You can't replace Spencer Lee. It's also not easy to replace Max Murin or Jacob Warner. 

 

[dragit]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

but they're consistently the second best program in the nation.   

They are probably still the second best program but not consistently.  Penn State is consistently the best.  Iowa is the best of the rest over the last decade on the whole but you can't count on it the way you can with Penn State as the best.

2013 - 4th

2014 - 4th

2015 - 2nd

2016 - 5th

2017 - 4th

2018 - 3rd

2019 - 4th

2020 - no tournament 

2021 - 1st

2022 - 3rd

2023 - 2nd

So they were first or second 3 out of 10 years, third or worse 7 out of 10.  And it will probably be 8 out of 11 years as third or worse after next week.

This is a consistent top 4 team which has been the second best on average but even that should probably be seen as in jeopardy. 

And with no indications of improvement.  For a little bit there it looked like Brands had turned a corner, but it was really just a blip with the PA recruits.  It's hard to unsee so many top talents ending their careers broken down physically and mentally.  

[Rassling]

Hawkeyes should embrace a new avian species as their mascot. It’s called the Mourning Dove. We mourn for you and the rapid decent as a team leader and those who lead the team to FAILURE.

Edited March 11 by Rassling