flow debate

[Dogbone]

If you get 5 chances and win 4 of them and everyone else had 4 chances and won all 4, it is absolutely an asterisk. 

I know they have said he only went because it was a free year, but we don't know that faced with a normal eligibility rules they would of kept the RS on the 3rd best wrestler in the country that year.    Sure when the year didn't count it is a no brainer, but the decision to sit a high AA caliber guy isn't as easy. 

Gabe Arnold isn't even at his ideal weight and there is discussion about pulling his RS because he very well could be a high AA finish. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

If you get 5 chances and win 4 of them and everyone else had 4 chances and won all 4, it is absolutely an asterisk. 

I know they have said he only went because it was a free year, but we don't know that faced with a normal eligibility rules they would of kept the RS on the 3rd best wrestler in the country that year.    Sure when the year didn't count it is a no brainer, but the decision to sit a high AA caliber guy isn't as easy. 

Gabe Arnold isn't even at his ideal weight and there is discussion about pulling his RS because he very well could be a high AA finish. 

Does Cael's loss from his redshirt year count?  Does "undefeated" have an asterisk next to it?  He was enrolled, at Iowa State, there was a referee, they had a match at a collegiate tournament.

No... because they both wrestled under the rules of the day.

[Dogbone]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Does Cael's loss from his redshirt year count?  Does "undefeated" have an asterisk next to it?  He was enrolled, at Iowa State, there was a referee, they had a match at a collegiate tournament.

No... because they both wrestled under the rules of the day.

If KOT would of RS this would be a good argument but he didn't.  He entered the NCAA tournament and will get 5 chances to win 4.   We can't say he hypothetically would of RS'd so we are just ignoring the result. 

IF he wins 4 titles he will be in the discussion with the other 4 timers.  People have ranked Logan lower (of the 4 timers) due to his freshman year and argued Dake's 4 in 4 years makes his more impressive than the others who didn't RS. No one is going to take away any KOT titles but it will be looked at differently. 

[VakAttack]

Yeah, I wouldn't give O'Toole an asterisk, the situation was too unusual.

[wrestle87]

A tough part about this is we are assuming two titles ahead.  After he wasn’t necessarily the favorite to win last year, he  had a great game-time performance when it matters.  

Where I find less interest is how back and forth he has been with David Carr.  I love the competition they have, that’s exciting.  But the marketing push to pump the 4x thing (which was largely started by the Dake 4x in in 4 weights…dude give me a break) is stupid.  4x titles is an unbelievable accomplishment.  That should be enough.  It is so hard to do that Bo Nickal and Spencer Lee weren’t able to do it.  David Taylor and Jordan Burroughs didn’t even get 3. 

The push to glorify for ad dollars really diminishes the accomplishment.  It’s the same kind if nonsense the UFC pushes with “2 weight champs” bc they are trying to recreate a connor mcgregor situation.  What they fail to realize is it just devalues to base product.

[NM1965]

16 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Why an asterisk?  No redshirt.

4 in five years.

Just like Cael, Pat Smith, Steiber.

Cael, Pat, and Steiber never finished 3rd, UNLIKE KOT.

[jchapman]

50 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Yeah, I wouldn't give O'Toole an asterisk, the situation was too unusual.

Isn't that precisely why an asterisk should be used? 

[gromit]

3 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

oh i thought this would be about prostate trouble

maybe over on the Lehigh forum

https://fb.watch/qoG2OKHiT7/

 

Edited February 23 by gromit

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, jchapman said:

Isn't that precisely why an asterisk should be used? 

No.  The point is, it's pretty clear he wouldn't have wrestled but for that free year.  It was talked about at the time.

[Ohio Elite]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

No.  The point is, it's pretty clear he wouldn't have wrestled but for that free year.  It was talked about at the time.

I see what your saying. What about half an asterisk? 

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, Ohio Elite said:

I see what your saying. What about half an asterisk? 

NO ASTERISKS!  The only asterisk I would have would be if someone in a similar situation won only 4 with one of the non-wins being in that middle period.

[Ohio Elite]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

NO ASTERISKS!  The only asterisk I would have would be if someone in a similar situation won only 4 with one of the non-wins being in that middle period.

I was hoping you would meet me in the middle. 

[bnwtwg]

The good news is that The Mizzou Tigerducks are gearing up for greatness... and protecting their rankings

 

 

 

[VakAttack]

Mizzou trying to continue their annual tradition of inflating their seeds. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Having asked the question about the asterisk, @Interviewed_at_Weehawken has me convinced*.

* No asterisk.

Edited February 23 by Wrestleknownothing

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 hours ago, NM1965 said:

Cael, Pat, and Steiber never finished 3rd, UNLIKE KOT.

But they did redshirt.

[ionel]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

But they did redshirt.

Pat prob could've got the 4 easier if he hadn't. 

[JimmyCinnabon]

7 hours ago, NM1965 said:

Cael, Pat, and Steiber never finished 3rd, UNLIKE KOT.

The only argument I think makes sense is that because KOT was able to wrestle in 2021 it sped up his development by an entire year. 

[BIGTENFANBOY]

22 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

In terms of hype and general perception?  No.  The hype of the Taylor-Dake match was nothing I've ever seen.    But on paper and to the hardcores like us then absolutely.

100% correct. Dake and Taylor were 2 of the faces of NCAA Wrestling. They were the poster children of the sport. OToole and Starrocci not so much. I dont think we will ever see a more hyped match collegiate matchup than Dake v Taylor.