Kyle burwikk

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Again, it's gross to debate semantics as you literally take away a part of the young man's very limited asset: his collegiate wrestling ability.  Once his college wrestling career is over, Chris Bono will still be coaching, and the AD will still be ADing, but this kid will not get another shot to compete in college wrestling.  Saying he has an opportunity to compete in a weight where they literally brought an experienced All American into the weight requires such mental gymnastics, I can't believe we're even doing it.

Kyle Burwick has no opportunity to wrestle for Wisconsin this season.  They preferred Taylor LaMont.  He is now wrestling for him.  And now they are stopping him from competing elsewhere.

And I have yet to see anyone stick the landing

[ionel]

1 hour ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

#.02 of NCAA bylaws are definitions.

Bylaw 14 governs "Eligibility."

 

 

30 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Again, it's gross to debate semantics as you literally take away a part of the young man's very limited asset: his collegiate wrestling ability.  Once his college wrestling career is over, Chris Bono will still be coaching, and the AD will still be ADing, but this kid will not get another shot to compete in college wrestling.  Saying he has an opportunity to compete in a weight where they literally brought an experienced All American into the weight requires such mental gymnastics, I can't believe we're even doing it.

Kyle Burwick has no opportunity to wrestle for Wisconsin this season.  They preferred Taylor LaMont.  He is now wrestling for him.  And now they are stopping him from competing elsewhere.

if only we could get ride of all lawyers and laws (bylaws included) we could all do whatever we want.   

[jchapman]

3 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Again, it's gross to debate semantics as you literally take away a part of the young man's very limited asset: his collegiate wrestling ability.  Once his college wrestling career is over, Chris Bono will still be coaching, and the AD will still be ADing, but this kid will not get another shot to compete in college wrestling.  Saying he has an opportunity to compete in a weight where they literally brought an experienced All American into the weight requires such mental gymnastics, I can't believe we're even doing it.

Kyle Burwick has no opportunity to wrestle for Wisconsin this season.  They preferred Taylor LaMont.  He is now wrestling for him.  And now they are stopping him from competing elsewhere.

The NCAA is stopping him from competing.  He left and went to Nebraska.

Edited December 21, 2022 by jchapman

[jajensen09]

1 hour ago, jchapman said:

The NCAA is stopping him from competing.  He left and went to Nebraska.

You mean Bono??

[VakAttack]

3 hours ago, jchapman said:

The NCAA is stopping him from competing.  He left and went to Nebraska.

Like I said.  Gymnastics.  Could Wisconsin do something to allow him to compete this season? 

[flyingcement]

This whole conversation is absurd.  Feels like gaslighting to hear arguments on behalf of blocking Burwick from wrestling.  

[Dark Energy]

From Flo article 

“At this point in the process, the only thing that could be done to allow Kyle to compete would be for Wisconsin to agree to a no participation opportunity waiver,” Nebraska executive AD for compliance Jamie Vaughn said. “That’s the only thing left for him now. We’ve exhausted the other possibilities with the NCAA’s waiver processes.” 

Do we agree that the first part of this statement is correct?  (Wisconsin needs to agree to the no participation opportunity waiver)

Has Wisconsin stated why they won’t sign it? 
 

I’m lost - hoping someone can get me up to speed.

 

[Chestcrusher]

38 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

From Flo article 

“At this point in the process, the only thing that could be done to allow Kyle to compete would be for Wisconsin to agree to a no participation opportunity waiver,” Nebraska executive AD for compliance Jamie Vaughn said. “That’s the only thing left for him now. We’ve exhausted the other possibilities with the NCAA’s waiver processes.” 

Do we agree that the first part of this statement is correct?  (Wisconsin needs to agree to the no participation opportunity waiver)

Has Wisconsin stated why they won’t sign it? 
 

I’m lost - hoping someone can get me up to speed.

 

Yes for him to compete this season Wisconsin would have to sign an NPO, which basically says that they were NOT giving him an opportunity to compete, practice, be on scholarship, etc. with the University of Wisconsin. Wisconsin didn’t do any of these things, so signing the form for them doesn’t make sense because they didn’t restrict him. 
 

Burwick choose to transfer after the deadline. No one forced him to leave Madison. Also people keep complaining about eligibility, but he will have 4 opportunities at NCAAs even without this season because of the Covid year.  
 

if Kyle entered the portal  during the window he would be competing right now.  No one to blame but himself. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Chestcrusher

[jchapman]

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Like I said.  Gymnastics.  Could Wisconsin do something to allow him to compete this season? 

They could put their program in jeopardy of NCAA sanctions by lying on the NPO form.

[Dark Energy]

Flo is doing a crap job by not going into some of the details of what a NPO waiver is and what it means to sign one. If the posts above are correct and aren’t leaving out important details, then this aspect seems to be damn important.

 

[jchapman]

7 hours ago, flyingcement said:

This whole conversation is absurd.  Feels like gaslighting to hear arguments on behalf of blocking Burwick from wrestling.  

Don't let feelings get in the way of critical thinking.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, Chestcrusher said:

Yes for him to compete this season Wisconsin would have to sign an NPO, which basically says that they were NOT giving him an opportunity to compete, practice, be on scholarship, etc. with the University of Wisconsin. Wisconsin didn’t do any of these things, so signing the form for them doesn’t make sense because they didn’t restrict him. 
 

Burwick choose to transfer after the deadline. No one forced him to leave Madison. Also people keep complaining about eligibility, but he will have 4 opportunities at NCAAs even without this season because of the Covid year.  
 

if Kyle entered the portal  during the window he would be competing right now.  No one to blame but himself. 

That is not 100% accurate. Wisconsin has stated that they did not tell their athletes about the May 1 deadline to enter the portal, and so have some culpability.

[jchapman]

32 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

That is not 100% accurate. Wisconsin has stated that they did not tell their athletes about the May 1 deadline to enter the portal, and so have some culpability.

"Hey team, in case you are incapable of performing a Google search, please realize you need to get in the Portal by May 1 so you can leave our program and have immediate eligibility elsewhere." 

[Jason Bryant]

20 minutes ago, jchapman said:

"Hey team, in case you are incapable of performing a Google search, please realize you need to get in the Portal by May 1 so you can leave our program and have immediate eligibility elsewhere." 

This should be departmental. If every athlete didn't receive information about any and all changes to deadlines and processes, then that could fall not just on coaches, but the department's compliance office, too. They have to process incoming transfers and selfishly, they should let every athlete know their rights in these situations. There are a number of situations that keep athletes beholden to their school until certain times, not all of them may fit the NCAA calendar. Some schools are on trimester systems vs. semester systems. Others have different defined "championship seasons," so there are moving parts that a google search wouldn't solve. 

If any rule changes with an athlete's potential eligibility, at minimum, they should receive an e-mail about it. The automated systems these schools use to contact students and athletes make it a simple delivery option. Schools aren't going to open that door for people to leave, but it'd solve a lot more compliance issues outgoing if they at least covered their rear by doing something that shows they did let the athletes know the deadlines. 

There's also a lot of misinformation out there on the interwebs, so know knows what google search result would have been the most accurate and up-to-date. 

I will say if anyone legitimately believes Lamont wasn't going to start after transferring to Wisconsin, there's some saying about oceanfront property in Kansas or something. No dog in the fight, no ill will towards either coach or program, just looking at this without bias and trying to provide an alternative rational viewpoint. 

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, jchapman said:

They could put their program in jeopardy of NCAA sanctions by lying on the NPO form.

Lol.  Sure thing, buddy.

[Wrestleknownothing]

48 minutes ago, jchapman said:

"Hey team, in case you are incapable of performing a Google search, please realize you need to get in the Portal by May 1 so you can leave our program and have immediate eligibility elsewhere." 

"Hey, coach, I was hoping you could help me with my head inside single today."

"Just google it. And after practice we will have a presentation from our new head of compliance Dr. Justgoogleit. If you came to Wisconsin looking to learn, I have good news for you. We have google."

 

[jajensen09]

2 hours ago, Chestcrusher said:

Yes for him to compete this season Wisconsin would have to sign an NPO, which basically says that they were NOT giving him an opportunity to compete, practice, be on scholarship, etc. with the University of Wisconsin. Wisconsin didn’t do any of these things, so signing the form for them doesn’t make sense because they didn’t restrict him. 
 

Burwick choose to transfer after the deadline. No one forced him to leave Madison. Also people keep complaining about eligibility, but he will have 4 opportunities at NCAAs even without this season because of the Covid year.  
 

if Kyle entered the portal  during the window he would be competing right now.  No one to blame but himself. 

Not true

 

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, jajensen09 said:

Not true

 

[jajensen09]

Wisconsin would not put their department I'm hot water if they sign off!!! The ncaa would just deny it!! Some people will say or twist anything even if it's soo far off. Wisconsin is making a kid lose a year of eligibility of being arrogant!!!

[Idaho]

30 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Lol.  Sure thing, buddy.

haha... sanctions in wrestling.... NCAA football portal on line 1. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, jchapman said:

They could put their program in jeopardy of NCAA sanctions by lying on the NPO form.

Kevin Dresser went on FRL in 2018 or 2019 and admitted to breaking NCAA rules. I am sure the hammer will come down any day now.

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Kevin Dresser went on FRL in 2018 or 2019 and admitted to breaking NCAA rules. I am sure the hammer will come down any day now.

who knows ... maybe nobody told you

[jchapman]

I don't particularly like Bono.  I wasn't excited when he got hired, I would have loved to have seen Askren get the chance.  However, I think he is being unfairly blamed in this particular ongoing case.  It sucks for Kyle that he won't get to wrestle attached this season.  Bono is "guilty" of allowing a returning AA to transfer in.  To some, this is shady, to others it means he is strengthening the roster.  I see both sides of it, and if Bono wants to operate by bringing in transfers then he will live with the consequences that reputation brings to his program.

As far as we know, Kyle was not kicked off the team or prevented from returning.  He may or may not have been given a chance to compete for the starting spot.  We don't know if he was promised a starting spot at 133 for all four years.  If he was, then again, Bono will have to live with the consequences that reputation brings to his program.  However, this is big time college wrestling and competition is fierce on a B1G roster.  

If Kyle was my son, I would want him to be able to transfer and wrestle immediately if a returning AA was brought in. I get it.  However, when you chose to compete at the highest level in the best conference, nothing is guaranteed.  I am seeing this right now with my own son.  He is being recruited for baseball.  The decision making process involves deciding to go to a big time program and hope you can stay on the roster and get playing time in a couple years, or go to a smaller program where you can play right away and be able to develop while competing.

This Burwick situation is more complicated than most are making it out to be.  It is not simply "Bono won't let him wrestle."  The NCAA has ruled Kyle ineligible, and the Wisconsin athletic department can't in good faith sign a document saying Kyle wasn't allowed to be on the team or compete.  Kyle chose to leave the team. Even if the circumstances surrounding his decision to leave may seem justified, the NCAA says he is ineligible.

[jajensen09]

2 hours ago, jchapman said:

I don't particularly like Bono.  I wasn't excited when he got hired, I would have loved to have seen Askren get the chance.  However, I think he is being unfairly blamed in this particular ongoing case.  It sucks for Kyle that he won't get to wrestle attached this season.  Bono is "guilty" of allowing a returning AA to transfer in.  To some, this is shady, to others it means he is strengthening the roster.  I see both sides of it, and if Bono wants to operate by bringing in transfers then he will live with the consequences that reputation brings to his program.

As far as we know, Kyle was not kicked off the team or prevented from returning.  He may or may not have been given a chance to compete for the starting spot.  We don't know if he was promised a starting spot at 133 for all four years.  If he was, then again, Bono will have to live with the consequences that reputation brings to his program.  However, this is big time college wrestling and competition is fierce on a B1G roster.  

If Kyle was my son, I would want him to be able to transfer and wrestle immediately if a returning AA was brought in. I get it.  However, when you chose to compete at the highest level in the best conference, nothing is guaranteed.  I am seeing this right now with my own son.  He is being recruited for baseball.  The decision making process involves deciding to go to a big time program and hope you can stay on the roster and get playing time in a couple years, or go to a smaller program where you can play right away and be able to develop while competing.

This Burwick situation is more complicated than most are making it out to be.  It is not simply "Bono won't let him wrestle."  The NCAA has ruled Kyle ineligible, and the Wisconsin athletic department can't in good faith sign a document saying Kyle wasn't allowed to be on the team or compete.  Kyle chose to leave the team. Even if the circumstances surrounding his decision to leave may seem justified, the NCAA says he is ineligible.

The ncaa did not rule him ineligible. That is false

[jajensen09]

2 hours ago, jchapman said:

I don't particularly like Bono.  I wasn't excited when he got hired, I would have loved to have seen Askren get the chance.  However, I think he is being unfairly blamed in this particular ongoing case.  It sucks for Kyle that he won't get to wrestle attached this season.  Bono is "guilty" of allowing a returning AA to transfer in.  To some, this is shady, to others it means he is strengthening the roster.  I see both sides of it, and if Bono wants to operate by bringing in transfers then he will live with the consequences that reputation brings to his program.

As far as we know, Kyle was not kicked off the team or prevented from returning.  He may or may not have been given a chance to compete for the starting spot.  We don't know if he was promised a starting spot at 133 for all four years.  If he was, then again, Bono will have to live with the consequences that reputation brings to his program.  However, this is big time college wrestling and competition is fierce on a B1G roster.  

If Kyle was my son, I would want him to be able to transfer and wrestle immediately if a returning AA was brought in. I get it.  However, when you chose to compete at the highest level in the best conference, nothing is guaranteed.  I am seeing this right now with my own son.  He is being recruited for baseball.  The decision making process involves deciding to go to a big time program and hope you can stay on the roster and get playing time in a couple years, or go to a smaller program where you can play right away and be able to develop while competing.

This Burwick situation is more complicated than most are making it out to be.  It is not simply "Bono won't let him wrestle."  The NCAA has ruled Kyle ineligible, and the Wisconsin athletic department can't in good faith sign a document saying Kyle wasn't allowed to be on the team or compete.  Kyle chose to leave the team. Even if the circumstances surrounding his decision to leave may seem justified, the NCAA says he is ineligible.

They absolutely can sign it. They don't want burwick to go to nebraska that is the entire situation,  they'd sign off if he wasn't going to the big 10. This bs saying Wisconsin would get in trouble is a lie! "In good faith" more lies. Just digging themselves in a bigger hole.