Creeps in the wrestling community - What can we do about it?

[gimpeltf]

1 hour ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Would riding be considered simulated sexual conduct? Would a singlet be considered "transparent" enough? I think the answer to both those questions would be "yes," especially if you show the judge during the motion hearing and the jury during the trial the videotapes of the children on porn sites. 

Wouldn't that imply that we could NEVER film/stream and then publicly post kids wrestling?

Edited January 2 by gimpeltf

[AgaveMaria]

Am visiting my old college friend and he asked me about this one. Asked as I have shot NFL, NBA, MLB and such for decades for newspapers, magazines and some teams.

The camera doesn't lie. It photographs reality. But..., your angle, lens, lighting and what you choose to photograph can emphasize various aspects of what is covered. Then you have how they are edited and worked on to emphasize particular areas of images. I do still work, no video. I'll leave the video to friends who have the dollars for top gear and do it for a living.

All of us who photograph sports have images that are questionable and at times almost obscene. Images that, if published - would be a bad look for the subject featured. Any photographer with a conscience does not show these. Editors never see them because we are not in the business of trying to ruin our subjects. This is especially true in Youth sports and even more so with women in sport. As for me I stopped photographing cheerleaders a few decades ago. Too much "dirty old man" vibes from too many when you are pointing big lenses at the women/girls. Just personal here but i know many who do not photograph them unless specifically asked. Same basic reason - don't want to be labeled as dirtbag photographers or - even worse - "paparazzi".

When photographing action stuff happens. Hands and fingers end up in odd positions, body parts get exposed or emphasized. Good taste dictated judgment on what we send ot editors for publication and sale. There is a line from funny to embarassing to outrght prurient images. Most I have done business with don't want and won't publish those images that are questionable. For me, I don't do business with those who do. Others are not concerned with it.

If - and it is a bit IF - I ran a venue and saw certain photographers/videographers putting up images as this topic is discussing i would ban them from the arena. If that is challenged we could go to NO CAMERAS as a policy. Even that is a problem with cell phone image quality getting better every week.

These type of photographers will always be with us. Local control is pretty much your only option. Visit an Intellectual Property attorney and/or Law Enforcement  to get good information on your legal options. I am not an attorney.

That said I know what happens if I find my kids involved. There is the law. There is revenge. When it is personal..., revenge becomes the law. Take that however you will.

 

[Winners Circle]

5 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I think you're oversimplifying it. I don't think people with that type of brain are going to be turned off by the sport if guys are wearing shorts and then an under-armour shirt. 

But shit, I guess after seeing they're literally putting it on porn sites, it should be an option for HS and above. I just didn't like Wrestling someone in shorts or in a shirt...but I(we) all practiced with guys wearing sweatshirts and shit like that. You might get a finger caught in there every once in a while, but that's a helluva lot better than seeing young kids in JHS on porn sites because they have both legs in and that's...something that excites a brain that's just wired wrong. 

This was my point. The uniform won't turn the creeps away.

[BAC]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I don't disagree with this one bit, but the Flo haters certainly do.  Minnow and his sycophants were all fired up about this earlier this year. (Wranglemania?)

I'm actually saying something a little bit different.  I'm not talking about whether Flo or other organizations give permission.  I'm talking about the permission they receive.  I'm talking about putting the control in the hands of the state/national wrestling organizations, instead of giving unfettered discretion to the media organizations to use or misuse their photos/videos as they see fit.

Let me give you an example.

Let's say the Indiana state organization of USA-Wrestling (lets call it "USAW-I") is holding a U17 state freestyle tournament.  Can anyone just walk in and start filming?  No -- not if USAW-I doesn't allow it.  They can forbid videos/photography, or impose limits.  They can permit filming only where media credentials are given.  And they can dictate the terms of those credentials.  You don't like it, you don't get to film. 

So lets say 3 media organizations/individuals apply for media credentials.  Instead of just handing out credentials and video rights unconditionally, USAW-I can say on the rights form:  Sure, you can record, but we retain ownership of the copyright on whatever you record.  We grant you a license, but we retain the right to rescind that license or to exercise our rights under the copyright laws if we determine, in our sole discretion, that they work is inappropriate, offensive or is being misused by you or others.

If USAW-I does that, and videos from their tournament are shot in a dodgy way or have a mysteriously high number of Youtube views or show up on a sketchy website, then complaints are routed to USAW-I, which can immediately do a "takedown notice" under copyright laws (see https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807622?hl=en), and then under federal law, Youtube (or whatever the website is) has to comply promptly, usually in a matter of days if not hours.

Caveats:

-- Many wrestling organizations aren't so great about exercising these rights.  But they do have them.  This episode should be an eye-opener to state organizations to be more vigilant about implementing and enforcing no-video/no-photo rules absent organizer permission, particularly in the youth context.

-- This isn't the only approach.  Wrestling organizations can simply be more vigilant about who they give credentials to.  But the problem is, it is hard to know. There's no doubt legit videographers out there, who also have a side business of catering to prurient interests. Organizations also can retain the right to rescind credentials, but that doesn't solve the problem of them having already acquired a library of stuff to peddle.

-- Some media organizations may take exception to not owning copyrights in their works.  Owning a license isn't as valuable as owning a copyright.  Personally I think it is justified in the youth context. If necessary, an exception could be made with well-known media organizations, but even there, the credential agreement should include limitations -- e.g. using the videos only on their own websites, not re-licensing them without the organization's permission, and/or agreeing to exercise a DMCA takedown notice if requested by the organization.  Point is, there are workarounds to accommodate the media organization's desire to own its own IP, while still ensuring the organization retains the ability to be responsive to instances of misuse.

-- It isn't always the state wrestling organizations that control media access.  Sometimes it is private organizations, which I hope would follow suit. Sometimes it is the media organization itself (e.g. I assume Flo controls access to its "Who's Number One" event). I'm not worried about them, as they're keeping the rights for themselves and I can't imagine they'd ever license it to a suspect actor. 

-- There's other complicators too.  I'm not in the loop on the processes currently used by USAW and other organizations, and what processes they mandate to their state organizations, and what limitations they have by virtue of falling under the USOC/IOC umbrella. I'm also not sure how flexible the wrestling media would be in agreeing to additional copyright restrictions in the youth context.  Flo, for example, has come a long way from its early days of just sort of showing up and filming until they get kicked out (and risking copyright objections from exclusive broadcasters), to now apparently negotiating exclusive rights for themselves in many of the events they cover. But I think its an idea worth exploring as I gather this issue is more widespread than we realize, and exists in wrestling's underbelly where we seldom look.

[BAC]

1 hour ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

I practiced civil and criminal law in ILLINOIS for a number of years. If these guys are reading this board, and you know they're reading this board, it's time to lawyer up. Delete all the child porn videos and pray to your God. Without waivers from the parents, there is civil liability for money damages followed by bankruptcy. Additionally, this is the relevant ILLINOIS criminal statute:

Child pornography.
    (a) A person commits child pornography who:
        (1) films, videotapes ... any child whom he ... knows or reasonably should know to be under the age of 18 ... where such child ... is:  

(i) actually or by simulation engaged in any ... sexual conduct with any person

(vii) depicted or portrayed in any pose, posture or setting involving a lewd exhibition of ... transparently clothed genitals, pubic area, buttocks....

I highlighted the questions that the State's Attorney will look at closely. Would riding be considered simulated sexual conduct? Would a singlet be considered "transparent" enough? I think the answer to both those questions would be "yes," especially if you show the judge during the motion hearing and the jury during the trial the videotapes of the children on porn sites. You only have to answer "yes" once for there to be criminal liability. The question to ask each defendant, or the rhetorical question to pose to the judge and jury: It was apparently "transparent" enough for you to post the video on a porn site, wasn't it? 

As for what to do, I think there are two main options: Root out each individual doing this one by one, or go to the two-piece for high school, Fargo, National Duals and other tournaments. Make it a privilege to wear the singlet for Team USA and in college. 

You gotta be careful what you ask for here.  If common wrestling positions can constitute "simulated sexual conduct," and if the appearance of the typical wrestling singlet can constitute "transparently clothed genitals," then not only would every single youth wrestling video risk prosecution for child pornography, it also would mean those who who watch or store those videos are guilty of viewing/possessing child porn, and those who sponsor wrestling events are engaged in criminal acts.  Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater.  Prosecuting someone on these grounds would create a chilling effect on wrestling media that could be a death knell for the entire sport.

If you're going to go after someone criminally, it needs to be based on their very specific conduct in relation to child pornographers and consumers, and not merely the high-res nature of the videos.

[BAC]

9 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Yeah I know. My post wasn’t clear. I wasn’t asking what part of the law protects YouTube from liability. I’m asking why it is still such a blanket protection. 

Gotcha.  I could go down a rabbit hole on this one, but respectfully, the answer isn't opening Youtube up to liability.  The cost of self-policing is absolutely massive, and content hosts will err on the side of caution, so what will happen is a massive overcorrection where either (a) a huge portion of content goes behind a paywall (passing costs to the consumer), or (b) a huge part of the internet dries up (as content hosts lack the resources to review/police it), or, most likely, (c) both.  

The other legislative problem is that politicians are too caught up in what minors can do online, and not focused enough on what adults can do to harm and exploit minors.  State and federal legislators LOVE to pass new laws restricting what kids can see/do on the internet -- Youtube is currently under an FTC consent decree from 2019 for failing to police this -- but what do legislators do to protect the kids from adults?  Precious little.  

You want a legislative fix?  Here's mine. Amend the Copyright Act to provide that parents/guardians of minor children automatically own a limited copyright in the image/likeness of their minor child, and can enforce that copyright by requiring videos/photos be taken down, unless they have given express permission (e.g. via signed waiver for an event).  In other words, expand the right to make a DMCA takedown request to parents.  Right now, all we have is a messy patchwork of state privacy laws, most of them inadequate. The Copyright Act provides a quick and easy nationwide solution.

[Antitroll2828]

5 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

You keep posting that this vigilante approach solves the problem, which sounds tough on the internet, but in reality those  people would go to jail too.  I don't see you volunteering for that, and most people wouldn't either, which is why your solution doesn't work. Travis Bickle isn't going to help.

There is already a blueprint to stop this, which is the legal system. And yes, civil and criminal cases have impacted the way organizations like the catholic church, boy scouts, and schools/universities deal with abuse.  So the only way to actually solve this is to ask first of all if the people who are profiting can be held criminally and civilly accountable under current law.  And if not (as is the case for not being able to sue Youtube and other corporations profiting), work to change laws. 

Your first paragraph is exactly why predators and criminals are thriving in this country right now , literally the definition why this country has the arrow pointing straight down , you think I give a shit if I get some jail time for beating up a child predator? If this guy was doing this in Nj I was would drive straight to the arena and wait for him in a parking lot , Violence has always been and always will be the greatest deterrent towards evil men , these people don’t care about laws and laws don’t work for the victims at all in our system , he’s exploited 100s of kids and posted their images for pedos to enjoy and currently is a youth ref with access to children and you want to start the long drawn out process of changing laws (relying on politicians , half of which are current fighting to keep Epstein client list sealed) and file civil suits which go on for years and years.. the law has known about this for over a year. How many pictures have been taken and sent into the cesspool of the internet since then? How many disgusting weirdos enjoyed them since the cops were notified? Hopefully the F.B.I. does something now that they are involved but I doubt if they do it’ll be a quick and speedy process 

the greatest threat to society isn’t evil men it’s the indifference and apathy of good men 

[Antitroll2828]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Typical Minnow style.  He wants us to believe that he has a direct line to the feds.

This isn’t the first time Mineo used his platform to call out predators in the wrestling community and he has 3 young girls so I know he’s sincere when he talks about this stuff , and Mineo runs a wrestling page with like over 1000 members in NJ , quite a few that work in law enforcement, it wouldn’t be surprising at all if one of them knew who to call to get the ball rolling on something ….

pretty weird time and subject to try and dunk on Mineo when he did more to try and stop this guy in the last 48 hrs then law enforcement and the wrestling community did in a year 

[Le duke]

Your first paragraph is exactly why predators and criminals are thriving in this country right now , literally the definition why this country has the arrow pointing straight down , you think I give a shit if I get some jail time for beating up a child predator? If this guy was doing this in Nj I was would drive straight to the arena and wait for him in a parking lot , Violence has always been and always will be the greatest deterrent towards evil men , these people don’t care about laws and laws don’t work for the victims at all in our system , he’s exploited 100s of kids and posted their images for pedos to enjoy and currently is a youth ref with access to children and you want to start the long drawn out process of changing laws (relying on politicians , half of which are current fighting to keep Epstein client list sealed) and file civil suits which go on for years and years.. the law has known about this for over a year. How many pictures have been taken and sent into the cesspool of the internet since then? How many disgusting weirdos enjoyed them since the cops were notified? Hopefully the F.B.I. does something now that they are involved but I doubt if they do it’ll be a quick and speedy process 
the greatest threat to society isn’t evil men it’s the indifference and apathy of good men 

If these people feared violent reprisal against them, they wouldn’t do it.

Let’s say you show up to some youth tournament and pick a fight with a guy you THINK is him. Then, it turns out it’s the wrong guy. You’re going to jail, chief.

Or, let’s say he’s armed. Even if he’s a suspected criminal, if he’s allowed to carry a gun in that state, and you attacks him, he can kill you, and walk.

There’s a reason the law exists. You don’t get to take it into your own hands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

13 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

This isn’t the first time Mineo used his platform to call out predators in the wrestling community and he has 3 young girls so I know he’s sincere when he talks about this stuff , and Mineo runs a wrestling page with like over 1000 members in NJ , quite a few that work in law enforcement, it wouldn’t be surprising at all if one of them knew who to call to get the ball rolling on something ….

pretty weird time and subject to try and dunk on Mineo when he did more to try and stop this guy in the last 48 hrs then law enforcement and the wrestling community did in a year 

I'll dunk on Minnow when I please.

Curious, who weighed in on the current scumbaggery first: Pyles or Minnow? Genuinely curious.

And what does this specific case have anything to do with Minnow's fanbase in NJ?  

Keep in mind that the wording he chose was to make his disciples think "Uncle Pat" (super creepy nickname he gave himself) was real real cool.  Not to mention he used silly memes and made it all about him.

Edited January 2 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Antitroll2828]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'll dunk on Minnow when I please.

Curious, who weighed in on the current scumbaggery first: Pyles or Minnow? Genuinely curious.

And what does this specific case have anything to do with Minnow's fanbase in NJ?  

Keep in mind that the wording he chose was to make his disciples think "Uncle Pat" (super creepy nickname he gave himself) was real real cool.

Idk who brought it up first and my point was mineo shared all this information with his wrestling group , a lot of NJ wrestlers around mineos age went into law enforcement and are members of said group so I said I wouldn’t be surprised if that helped get the FBI get involved , big difference between a wrestling mom calling the feds and a Sgt in a large police department calling the feds , I wasn’t stating anything as a fact just pointing that out to you 

I dunk in mineo from time to time because he deserves it occasionally but this is a very serious subject and one I know he isn’t talking about for clicks or likes 

 

thinking about it I think pyles may have briefly brought this up in the past but tap danced around it for fear of getting sued or company orders or  whatever the reason and when these guys got kicked out of midlands pyles popped back up with it 

[Antitroll2828]

23 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

If these people feared violent reprisal against them, they wouldn’t do it.

Let’s say you show up to some youth tournament and pick a fight with a guy you THINK is him. Then, it turns out it’s the wrong guy. You’re going to jail, chief.

Or, let’s say he’s armed. Even if he’s a suspected criminal, if he’s allowed to carry a gun in that state, and you attacks him, he can kill you, and walk.

There’s a reason the law exists. You don’t get to take it into your own hands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Weak 

 

per the FBI own numbers only 52 percent of all murders are solved (and they group this in with manslaughter to boost that number ) 

26 percent of rape cases are solved 

36 percent of violent crimes are solved 

23 percent of all Robbery

and those are just the numbers for cases with arrests , not prosecutions so these numbers go down even more after trial and almost 90 percent of the rest agree to a plea deal for a lesser charge and less or no jail time 

 

im also not advocating for people to go be Batman in their communities either , a lot of stupid people could end up hurting innocent people but in certain situations everyday people need to step up and do something when law enforcement can’t  or just won’t stop the obvious wrong going on , otherwise predators and criminals rule and society fails

Edited January 2 by Antitroll2828

[gimpeltf]

14 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Keep in mind that the wording he chose was to make his disciples think "Uncle Pat" (super creepy nickname he gave himself) was real real cool.  

He IS Uncle Pat. His brother Steve has a couple kids.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, gimpeltf said:

He IS Uncle Pat. His brother Steve has a couple kids.

Lol... those kids aren't the Bassetts and Gibsons that go to McCourt.  He refers to himself as those kids uncle.

[scribers]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:55 PM, BAC said:

Sounds lovely, but even if the tough-guy approach were legal, its sort if like saying you can solve the drug problem by taking out a single drug dealer.  It won't work if the source is still there and the consumers are still there.  You're still going to have hundreds of thousands of people scouring the internet for this stuff.  You don't think someone else will come along and fill the need?

My opinion on preventative measures:

1.  This should be seen as, first and foremost, a child protection issue.  You're never going to stop a certain subset of people from salivating over buff dudes.  Get over it.  Anyone out there who *hasn't* jacked off to a picture of a sexy female athlete? I doubt it.  I'm all for keeping the creeps out of *all* events, but focus on keeping kids from being exploited.  

2.  The main issue is too many unvetted people getting photo/video credentials. Youth events should be, by default, no photo or video allowed, unless (a) you're the kid's parent, or (b) you have the written consent of the parent, or (c) you were specifically granted credentials by the event organizer, which should require a showing that they are a legitimate media organization.  The question no one is asking -- but should -- is why on earth is some guy who has nothing more than a Youtube channel being allowed to film, especially in a youth setting?  Everyone knows Youtube pays by the view.  Take a guess what drives view counts.  Event sponsors should condition their support on having clear and restrictive policies in place. 

3.  In the youth context, even sponsors should insist on retaining ownership of the copyright on all photos and video taken from their event.  In other words, they condition their granting of recording/photo rights to them signing a document stating that (a) their product is a work-for-hire, and (b) the event organizer (e.g. USAW) grants a license, but ownership.  This way, the organizer retains the ability to police how the videos/photos are used -- and, when they appear to be drawing the wrong crowd, you can do a DMCA takedown request its gone in a matter of days.  Perhaps exceptions can be made for certain reputable organizations regarding ownership, but it is crazy that sponsors aren't retaining control to police the misuse of photos and videos taken at their events with their permission.

The logistics of running an event is difficult at best. Everyone there has a phone capable of making a decent quality video. Think about how difficult it would be to vet and enforce this policy.

Or we can stop requiring children to wear revealing uniform and get back to the business of the best aspects of wrestling, including being able to see recorded competition where ever it can be uploaded.

[commonsense2400]

Child exploitation occurs uncaught in schools, churches, youth programs, for years, amidst innocent adults completely unaware of it. Pedophilia is the farthest thing in the minds of people who work among children. It's unfathomable to them. Signs and warnings, true and untrue, often get met with disbelief because the idea of pedophilia seems so wrong. That is why so much training is needed to condition people to watch for it. This guy is probably not a pedophile. He has probably worked around kids so much that he can't imagine pedophilia. He is probably a naive, stubborn, clueless person, who, in his head and heart, thinks he is doing nothing wrong, and hundreds of adults have told him that his work is amazing and treasured and to please make more. Reasonable people need to sit down with him and explain why his excellent video skills and ferocious work ethic need changes. It's too bad the purported leaders and media profiteers are resorting to extortion and violence. That speaks a lot. Instead of sitting down with the guy for a heart to heart conversation about what he can do better, they try to steal his copyright and threaten to beat him up.

[Ohio Elite]

16 minutes ago, commonsense2400 said:

Child exploitation occurs uncaught in schools, churches, youth programs, for years, amidst innocent adults completely unaware of it. Pedophilia is the farthest thing in the minds of people who work among children. It's unfathomable to them. Signs and warnings, true and untrue, often get met with disbelief because the idea of pedophilia seems so wrong. That is why so much training is needed to condition people to watch for it. This guy is probably not a pedophile. He has probably worked around kids so much that he can't imagine pedophilia. He is probably a naive, stubborn, clueless person, who, in his head and heart, thinks he is doing nothing wrong, and hundreds of adults have told him that his work is amazing and treasured and to please make more. Reasonable people need to sit down with him and explain why his excellent video skills and ferocious work ethic need changes. It's too bad the purported leaders and media profiteers are resorting to extortion and violence. That speaks a lot. Instead of sitting down with the guy for a heart to heart conversation about what he can do better, they try to steal his copyright and threaten to beat him up.

First post eh?

[bnwtwg]

17 minutes ago, commonsense2400 said:

Child exploitation occurs uncaught in schools, churches, youth programs, for years, amidst innocent adults completely unaware of it. Pedophilia is the farthest thing in the minds of people who work among children. It's unfathomable to them. Signs and warnings, true and untrue, often get met with disbelief because the idea of pedophilia seems so wrong. That is why so much training is needed to condition people to watch for it. This guy is probably not a pedophile. He has probably worked around kids so much that he can't imagine pedophilia. He is probably a naive, stubborn, clueless person, who, in his head and heart, thinks he is doing nothing wrong, and hundreds of adults have told him that his work is amazing and treasured and to please make more. Reasonable people need to sit down with him and explain why his excellent video skills and ferocious work ethic need changes. It's too bad the purported leaders and media profiteers are resorting to extortion and violence. That speaks a lot. Instead of sitting down with the guy for a heart to heart conversation about what he can do better, they try to steal his copyright and threaten to beat him up.

Hey there, welcome to Intermat. One thing we like to do around here to meet & greet is share our Youtube channel. What's the link to yours?

[flyingcement]

20 minutes ago, commonsense2400 said:

Child exploitation occurs uncaught in schools, churches, youth programs, for years, amidst innocent adults completely unaware of it. Pedophilia is the farthest thing in the minds of people who work among children. It's unfathomable to them. Signs and warnings, true and untrue, often get met with disbelief because the idea of pedophilia seems so wrong. That is why so much training is needed to condition people to watch for it. This guy is probably not a pedophile. He has probably worked around kids so much that he can't imagine pedophilia. He is probably a naive, stubborn, clueless person, who, in his head and heart, thinks he is doing nothing wrong, and hundreds of adults have told him that his work is amazing and treasured and to please make more. Reasonable people need to sit down with him and explain why his excellent video skills and ferocious work ethic need changes. It's too bad the purported leaders and media profiteers are resorting to extortion and violence. That speaks a lot. Instead of sitting down with the guy for a heart to heart conversation about what he can do better, they try to steal his copyright and threaten to beat him up.

The thumbnails he chose just all happened to accentuate the private areas of children?  To defend the guy is despicable.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  

[1032004]

7 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

This isn’t the first time Mineo used his platform to call out predators in the wrestling community and he has 3 young girls so I know he’s sincere when he talks about this stuff , and Mineo runs a wrestling page with like over 1000 members in NJ , quite a few that work in law enforcement, it wouldn’t be surprising at all if one of them knew who to call to get the ball rolling on something ….

pretty weird time and subject to try and dunk on Mineo when he did more to try and stop this guy in the last 48 hrs then law enforcement and the wrestling community did in a year 

Kudos to him for helping raise awareness about this issue.  But I’m not necessarily convinced he “did more to try to stop this guy in the last 48 hours than law enforcement and the wrestling community did in a year.”

[commonsense2400]

1 hour ago, flyingcement said:

The thumbnails he chose just all happened to accentuate the private areas of children?  To defend the guy is despicable.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  

His thumbnails are no different than the photos on any wrestling photographer's site. Youtube doesn't allow people to pick any frame they want. That's to prevent bait and switch videos. Youtube selects a few video frames at random and those are the choices. If it's three frames of somebody walking around, the thumbnail will be walking around. People saying the thumbnails are altered are misinformed. Still frames always look off. What thumbnail should he use? ILLINIWrestlingBlog thinks the entire sport of wrestling is a simulated sex act, so he can't show a thumbnail with wrestling? A thumbnail of a person standing up has either a crotch or a butt, so that's wrong? If he zooms in close enough to cut that out he's a creep? If typical wrestling photos give you a hot flash, either you're part of the problem, or you're saying sexual attraction is a part of being human and you're too hyperfocused on it.

[commonsense2400]

10 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

I practiced civil and criminal law in ILLINOIS for a number of years. If these guys are reading this board, and you know they're reading this board, it's time to lawyer up. Delete all the child porn videos and pray to your God. Without waivers from the parents, there is civil liability for money damages followed by bankruptcy. Additionally, this is the relevant ILLINOIS criminal statute:

Child pornography.
    (a) A person commits child pornography who:
        (1) films, videotapes ... any child whom he ... knows or reasonably should know to be under the age of 18 ... where such child ... is:  

(i) actually or by simulation engaged in any ... sexual conduct with any person

(vii) depicted or portrayed in any pose, posture or setting involving a lewd exhibition of ... transparently clothed genitals, pubic area, buttocks....

I highlighted the questions that the State's Attorney will look at closely. Would riding be considered simulated sexual conduct? Would a singlet be considered "transparent" enough? I think the answer to both those questions would be "yes," especially if you show the judge during the motion hearing and the jury during the trial the videotapes of the children on porn sites. You only have to answer "yes" once for there to be criminal liability. The question to ask each defendant, or the rhetorical question to pose to the judge and jury: It was apparently "transparent" enough for you to post the video on a porn site, wasn't it? 

As for what to do, I think there are two main options: Root out each individual doing this one by one, or go to the two-piece for high school, Fargo, National Duals and other tournaments. Make it a privilege to wear the singlet for Team USA and in college. 

If you think the sport of wrestling is a simulated sex act, there is something very sick with you and you are part of the problem. None of these videos are child porn. Neither are movies and tv shows that don't have children wearing burqas. Just because someone like you can think wrestling is nudity and sex doesn't mean it is and no judge or jury will agree with you. If you want to live burqa style with the Taliban, go try it.

[flyingcement]

3 minutes ago, commonsense2400 said:

His thumbnails are no different than the photos on any wrestling photographer's site. Youtube doesn't allow people to pick any frame they want. That's to prevent bait and switch videos. Youtube selects a few video frames at random and those are the choices. If it's three frames of somebody walking around, the thumbnail will be walking around. People saying the thumbnails are altered are misinformed. Still frames always look off. What thumbnail should he use? ILLINIWrestlingBlog thinks the entire sport of wrestling is a simulated sex act, so he can't show a thumbnail with wrestling? A thumbnail of a person standing up has either a crotch or a butt, so that's wrong? If he zooms in close enough to cut that out he's a creep? If typical wrestling photos give you a hot flash, either you're part of the problem, or you're saying sexual attraction is a part of being human and you're too hyperfocused on it.

They are very different!  He has been scrubbing his sites for the last couple days in light of more public knowledge of his wrongdoings.  And you are 100% wrong - you can definitely choose the thumbnails.  

[Mr. PeanutButter]

5 minutes ago, commonsense2400 said:

His thumbnails are no different than the photos on any wrestling photographer's site. Youtube doesn't allow people to pick any frame they want. That's to prevent bait and switch videos. Youtube selects a few video frames at random and those are the choices. If it's three frames of somebody walking around, the thumbnail will be walking around. People saying the thumbnails are altered are misinformed. Still frames always look off. What thumbnail should he use? ILLINIWrestlingBlog thinks the entire sport of wrestling is a simulated sex act, so he can't show a thumbnail with wrestling? A thumbnail of a person standing up has either a crotch or a butt, so that's wrong? If he zooms in close enough to cut that out he's a creep? If typical wrestling photos give you a hot flash, either you're part of the problem, or you're saying sexual attraction is a part of being human and you're too hyperfocused on it.

 

1 minute ago, flyingcement said:

They are very different!  He has been scrubbing his sites for the last couple days in light of more public knowledge of his wrongdoings.  And you are 100% wrong - you can definitely choose the thumbnails.  

Can confirm from personal experience. You can definitely upload your own thumbnails. Midwest Wrestle's thumbnails are in particular heavily edited to increase contrast and sharpness, among other changes.

I think you may be misinterpreting ILLINIWrestlingBlog's post. 

[flyingcement]

so @commonsense2400 registers an account, immediately posts only in this thread, defending a recently accused person of wrongdoing?  and they're doing so with boldfaced lies?  Seems like a good zoo candidate if there ever was one