Creeps in the wrestling community - What can we do about it?

[jchapman]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Makes sense.  I saw Pyles saying one of the guys threatened legal action against them, would that be the likely argument?

Not sure, probably talking about civil action.  The 1st Amendment guarantees it can’t be a crime.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

42 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

For my part, I reported the account on x and YouTube. Not sure what other action I should be taking 

This. People can do this. Also, everybody can put a comment at the bottom of the videos saying something like:

"You need to disable commenting. Are you seeing this, @YouTube?"

As for your assertion here: "The video quality isn't in the crux of the matter," well, then answer the question that I posed to Jason: Would anybody watch the videos if they were at 360 pixels?

The answer is obvious. Nobody is suggesting that taking advantage of children in this way is a good thing. That's like duh.

[Antitroll2828]

6 hours ago, Jim L said:

WTF bring up that the victim was an illegall alien? 

Bc he was ….

[1032004]

7 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Legal action is literally never the best way to deal with predators especially ones that target children, law enforcement knows about these guys and have done nothing , and hell nothing will happen if law enforcement makes a move , a teacher in my town was arrested for being a serial predator for years , even posing as a 12 yr old victims father and forcing her to get an abortion and this career predator who was tied to ruining the lives of 8 different little girls got 4 years in prison , served a little over 2 and half and got out , meanwhile same town 19 year old kid with no record hits an illegal alien riding a bicycle the wrong way with no lights on the highway and because he blew a .06 he got 10 years and had to serve 7 and half ..and these kind of people know the law isn’t against them 

Did the guy on the bike die?

[flyingcement]

4 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

This. People can do this. Also, everybody can put a comment at the bottom of the videos saying something like:

"You need to disable commenting. Are you seeing this, @YouTube?"

As for your assertion here: "The video quality isn't in the crux of the matter," well, then answer the question that I posed to Jason: Would anybody watch the videos if they were at 360 pixels?

The answer is obvious. Nobody is suggesting that taking advantage of children in this way is a good thing. That's like duh.

I think that seems to be more of a consensus way of approaching the situation.  As for me, when faced with similar issues, I have had more success in resolutions which are outside of the legal process.  I think that is a shame but that's been my experience 

[1032004]

14 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Homeboy, 

The video quality isn't in the crux of the matter. It's that, this particular creep, frames and crops his thumbnails in such a manner as to bring attention to certain body parts. The situation becomes significantly worse by virtue of the aggressive editing he does on the thumbnails - cranking up the contrast and sharpness to the max, making certain outlines and contours stand out visibly. His thumbnails in a lot of his more recent videos seem innocuous enough but the VAST majority of his most viewed videos feature nothing but crotch and butt shots. I want to believe it's a coincidence but they are so numerous and flagrant that that bridge is too far for me to cross. 

The other component to the fishiness is the views to comment ratio: they just don't make sense. I think it's pretty obvious he is embedding his videos on other sites. What type of sites are these I wonder? The language of the comments is also really strange, they don't read like what a typical YouTube comment would. There is also a disconcerting number of comments using suggestive language that just doesn't sit right with me, not to mention how often the physique of these boys (some of them quite young) is brought up. And on at least 3 different videos I saw comments with timestamps that went to parts of the videos where certain body parts were brought into sharp focus. There was one video where, during a break in the action, the camera seemed to focus intently on the wrestlers mid section as he was walking back and forth. It was weird. Everything about this experience was creepy. I feel sick and regret doing the deep dive that I did but I'm convinced that there are shenanigans going on. For my part, I reported the account on x and YouTube. Not sure what other action I should be taking 

Super weird that his last 7 video uploads (spread out over multiple days) are all from some random Christmas tournament in 2021.  Clearly he’s not posting these videos for wrestling fans to watch them

[Jim L]

12 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Bc he was ….

The victim's status is clearly only mentioned to try to lessen the perceived severity of the crime. If he was a US citizen would the crime been worse? 

I also need to see a link before I really believe this story. 

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, Jim L said:

The victim's status is clearly only mentioned to try to lessen the perceived severity of the crime. If he was a US citizen would the crime been worse? 

Yeah, we would never have a political group that would use illegal status to actually heighten a crime...

[Jon_Kozak]

A few things to add here that haven't been covered:

-His videos (of minors) are embedded on porn sites 

-Many of his most viewed videos have large portions that don't feature wrestling (wrestlers walking around during injury time/blood time)

-He films and uploads videos without having permission/rights to the events

Most recently he wasn't credentialed for Midlands and filmed anyway before he got kicked out by Storniolo. 

We've tried to strike his channel for copyright infringement because that's what we can actually prove. We're still working through it but things have gotten tricky where we've had to bring in legal.

[1032004]

22 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Not true. You must know that! Do you think that anybody would watch the exact same videos if they were 240p or 360p?

Flo videos are frequently 360p or worse. 

 

It sucks that they are being used in a way that is harmful to children. As a community, what do we do?

1. We can demand better quality from the trusted businesses. (That might keep the suspicious individuals from doing it).

2. We can inform the children and their parents and coaches to hire a lawyer, write to YouTube, call their Member of Congress.

3. We can ask for a bill in Congress to require that videotaping of minors in wrestling (and any similar sport like gymnastics or swimming) be at 360 pixels or less.

4. Other ideas?

Well, you might want to delete this tweet…

 

 

Also, gotta give credit to Minnow actually using his reach for good.

 

[Winners Circle]

Just want it on the record. I am NOT Midwest Wrestle from YouTube. I am from Missouri and have never reffed a match in my life. 

[Jason Bryant]

Just want it on the record. I am NOT Midwest Wrestle from YouTube. I am from Missouri and have never reffed a match in my life. 

suggestion: dm the mods here and get them to change your username.

[Winners Circle]

19 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

suggestion: dm the mods here and get them to change your username.

Will do. Thanks JB.

[Winners Circle]

22 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Will do. Thanks JB.

New username, new year, new me boys. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

It should take exactly one instance of something like this occurring for every state governing body to begin to phase out the singlet. No HS boy wants their junk on display to their friends and family. 
 

Anyone that is a “purist” and takes issue to combat shorts and compression shirt should be shown these allegations, videos from these creeps, and if they are still against it should be considered complacent and enablers to children’s sexual exploitation. Simple as that.  Could phase them out in 2 years if there was anyone in charge with half a brain. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

On 12/31/2023 at 12:14 PM, scribers said:

Solution = no more singlets. MMA style combat gear instead 

It’s so simple, quit making our sport so easy to sexualize and make fun of….

[Winners Circle]

10 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

It should take exactly one instance of something like this occurring for every state governing body to begin to phase out the singlet. No HS boy wants their junk on display to their friends and family. 
 

Anyone that is a “purist” and takes issue to combat shorts and compression shirt should be shown these allegations, videos from these creeps, and if they are still against it should be considered complacent and enablers to children’s sexual exploitation. Simple as that.  Could phase them out in 2 years if there was anyone in charge with half a brain. 

 

2 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

It’s so simple, quit making our sport so easy to sexualize and make fun of….

I respectfully disagree with you. There are pedophiles everywhere. Churches, schools, etc. Claiming that singlets is the reason there are pedophiles videoing kids matches/reffing is like claiming that women get raped because of the clothes they wear. I say BS!!!! The reason there's pedophiles around our sport is because they're freaking sick in the head, it has nothing to do with the singlet. Period. Don't justify these people being sick in the head by giving them the out of 'singlets'. I don't buy it.

[gimpeltf]

Perhaps reporting to SafeSport might help- at least with USAW events.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

 

I respectfully disagree with you. There are pedophiles everywhere. Churches, schools, etc. Claiming that singlets is the reason there are pedophiles videoing kids matches/reffing is like claiming that women get raped because of the clothes they wear. I say BS!!!! The reason there's pedophiles around our sport is because they're freaking sick in the head, it has nothing to do with the singlet. Period. Don't justify these people being sick in the head by giving them the out of 'singlets'. I don't buy it.

There are going to be sick people everywhere, but giving them a free pass to look at children in revealing clothing isn’t helping. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

2 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

There are going to be sick people everywhere, but giving them a free pass to look at children in revealing clothing isn’t helping. 

Additionally, this isn’t about the kids being touched. That is an entirely other Fuc*ed up issue. 
 

Women in revealing clothes don’t deserve to be raped but they do expect to be sexualized to a degree. Same as we would expect a pedo to do to an exposed child. 
 

If you’re not willing to take this step/advocate for it to make children less revealed you are complacent. 

[scribers]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:29 PM, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

It’s so simple, quit making our sport so easy to sexualize and make fun of….

We've been yelling about this for decades.

There are weirdos out there that no one can fix until they actually cross lines. Thinking awful things is not a crime until they actually assault.

And there are the weirdo enablers governing this sport who are too imbecilic to figure out the simple solution.

[BAC]

Some initial thoughts from a legal perspective.  

1. From a criminal standpoint, in bringing this to authorities, you need to do more than simply point out that there's a ton of views by people who clearly have prurient interests.  Its too easy for the photographer/ videographer to say, "It isn't my fault that these people exist. They're going to naturally go to whatever website has the highest quality videos and that happens to be mine."  You need to marshal forth facts that he's tailoring his content to them and engaging with them, and you need to focus on the videos of minors, where your argument is strongest.  Point out:

  (a) How if you click on the "popular" tab on Youtube (so it organizes videos by view count), almost all of the video stills (thumbnails) includes an image of the (minor) wrestler's crotch.  Not a coincidence.

  (b) Specific examples of camera angles, camera focus, and the choice of which wrestler to follow during breaks, that evidence they are not focused on the wrestling but the wrestler and their anatomy.

  (c) Efforts by the videographer/photographer to seek out specific wrestlers who previously appealed to this community.  Are there efforts to seek out the interview of certain wrestlers, or to take multiple videos of their matches, that is not explained by their prowess as a wrestler but, rather, by the viewcount of their last video by prurient elements?

  (d) Examples of interaction between videographer and commenters that further the notion that he is seeking to indulge their desires rather than showcase the sport of wrestling.

  (e) Find links to his website on adult websites, and seek ways to trace them to the photographer.  Encourage law enforcement to find out from Youtube the identity of the URLs from which traffic is resolving.

  (f) Find examples of his work on adult websites.  If no DMCA takedown notice has been done, why?  Is it being licensed, and/or a royalty paid?

  (g) There are other things that can be done too which I won't mention, but an experienced investigator would know.

2. From a parental standpoint:

  (a) First and foremost, be careful about what forms/waivers you sign for your kid.  If it includes filming or likeness rights, cross it out, or ask in advance to know the name and contact info of those who will be given filming rights.  You are the first line of defense for your kid. If you DO sign it, keep a copy -- take a picture with your phone. And you see your kid's video online, contact the tournament organizer to see if you signed a waiver, get a copy of it, and demand to see the list of persons to whom credentials were given.

  (b)  Copyright laws won't help much since you probably don't own the copyright, but if the video wasn't shot by whoever is hosting it, contact the person to shot the video, demand to know what permissions they gave, and demand they do a DMCA takedown notice.  Similarly, if the video was shot without authorization of the event organizers, contact them with a demand to enforce their rights against unauthorized filmers.

  (c) Research and use child privacy laws in your state. This is going to be highly state-specific, as federal rights are more circumspect.  Some state laws are more robust (e.g. California's CCPA, updated by the CPRA).  Whatever form you signed, don't assume it includes a right to put a suggestive picture of your kid on the internet and profit from it. (And if your state has a crappy child privacy law, talk to your legislator.)

  (d)  Research and use right of publicity laws in your state.  Again, this is highly state specific, and more narrow and less useful than privacy laws, but may be useful if your kid isn't a minor, and may give a path to civil suit.  A copyright defense isn't necessarily a defense to an image appropriation.

3. Reach out to your state AG's office.  They have their own menu of options and may be able to pursue the photographer/videographer, whether criminally or civilly, based on some of the above avenues.

[Antitroll2828]

38 minutes ago, BAC said:

Some initial thoughts from a legal perspective.  

1. From a criminal standpoint, in bringing this to authorities, you need to do more than simply point out that there's a ton of views by people who clearly have prurient interests.  Its too easy for the photographer/ videographer to say, "It isn't my fault that these people exist. They're going to naturally go to whatever website has the highest quality videos and that happens to be mine."  You need to marshal forth facts that he's tailoring his content to them and engaging with them, and you need to focus on the videos of minors, where your argument is strongest.  Point out:

  (a) How if you click on the "popular" tab on Youtube (so it organizes videos by view count), almost all of the video stills (thumbnails) includes an image of the (minor) wrestler's crotch.  Not a coincidence.

  (b) Specific examples of camera angles, camera focus, and the choice of which wrestler to follow during breaks, that evidence they are not focused on the wrestling but the wrestler and their anatomy.

  (c) Efforts by the videographer/photographer to seek out specific wrestlers who previously appealed to this community.  Are there efforts to seek out the interview of certain wrestlers, or to take multiple videos of their matches, that is not explained by their prowess as a wrestler but, rather, by the viewcount of their last video by prurient elements?

  (d) Examples of interaction between videographer and commenters that further the notion that he is seeking to indulge their desires rather than showcase the sport of wrestling.

  (e) Find links to his website on adult websites, and seek ways to trace them to the photographer.  Encourage law enforcement to find out from Youtube the identity of the URLs from which traffic is resolving.

  (f) Find examples of his work on adult websites.  If no DMCA takedown notice has been done, why?  Is it being licensed, and/or a royalty paid?

  (g) There are other things that can be done too which I won't mention, but an experienced investigator would know.

2. From a parental standpoint:

  (a) First and foremost, be careful about what forms/waivers you sign for your kid.  If it includes filming or likeness rights, cross it out, or ask in advance to know the name and contact info of those who will be given filming rights.  You are the first line of defense for your kid. If you DO sign it, keep a copy -- take a picture with your phone. And you see your kid's video online, contact the tournament organizer to see if you signed a waiver, get a copy of it, and demand to see the list of persons to whom credentials were given.

  (b)  Copyright laws won't help much since you probably don't own the copyright, but if the video wasn't shot by whoever is hosting it, contact the person to shot the video, demand to know what permissions they gave, and demand they do a DMCA takedown notice.  Similarly, if the video was shot without authorization of the event organizers, contact them with a demand to enforce their rights against unauthorized filmers.

  (c) Research and use child privacy laws in your state. This is going to be highly state-specific, as federal rights are more circumspect.  Some state laws are more robust (e.g. California's CCPA, updated by the CPRA).  Whatever form you signed, don't assume it includes a right to put a suggestive picture of your kid on the internet and profit from it. (And if your state has a crappy child privacy law, talk to your legislator.)

  (d)  Research and use right of publicity laws in your state.  Again, this is highly state specific, and more narrow and less useful than privacy laws, but may be useful if your kid isn't a minor, and may give a path to civil suit.  A copyright defense isn't necessarily a defense to an image appropriation.

3. Reach out to your state AG's office.  They have their own menu of options and may be able to pursue the photographer/videographer, whether criminally or civilly, based on some of the above avenues.

All this shit and in the end nothing will get accomplished or if it does it’ll take years while clown continues to operate .. orrr 3 fathers or brothers in masks run into this guy throw him a beating , make him piss blood for awhile and see how many more tournaments this weirdo pops up after that

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

42 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

All this shit and in the end nothing will get accomplished or if it does it’ll take years while clown continues to operate .. orrr 3 fathers or brothers in masks run into this guy throw him a beating , make him piss blood for awhile and see how many more tournaments this weirdo pops up after that

Euthanize them, there is no room for them.

[billyhoyle]

2 hours ago, BAC said:

Some initial thoughts from a legal perspective.  

1. From a criminal standpoint, in bringing this to authorities, you need to do more than simply point out that there's a ton of views by people who clearly have prurient interests.  Its too easy for the photographer/ videographer to say, "It isn't my fault that these people exist. They're going to naturally go to whatever website has the highest quality videos and that happens to be mine."  You need to marshal forth facts that he's tailoring his content to them and engaging with them, and you need to focus on the videos of minors, where your argument is strongest.  Point out:

  (a) How if you click on the "popular" tab on Youtube (so it organizes videos by view count), almost all of the video stills (thumbnails) includes an image of the (minor) wrestler's crotch.  Not a coincidence.

  (b) Specific examples of camera angles, camera focus, and the choice of which wrestler to follow during breaks, that evidence they are not focused on the wrestling but the wrestler and their anatomy.

  (c) Efforts by the videographer/photographer to seek out specific wrestlers who previously appealed to this community.  Are there efforts to seek out the interview of certain wrestlers, or to take multiple videos of their matches, that is not explained by their prowess as a wrestler but, rather, by the viewcount of their last video by prurient elements?

  (d) Examples of interaction between videographer and commenters that further the notion that he is seeking to indulge their desires rather than showcase the sport of wrestling.

  (e) Find links to his website on adult websites, and seek ways to trace them to the photographer.  Encourage law enforcement to find out from Youtube the identity of the URLs from which traffic is resolving.

  (f) Find examples of his work on adult websites.  If no DMCA takedown notice has been done, why?  Is it being licensed, and/or a royalty paid?

  (g) There are other things that can be done too which I won't mention, but an experienced investigator would know.

2. From a parental standpoint:

  (a) First and foremost, be careful about what forms/waivers you sign for your kid.  If it includes filming or likeness rights, cross it out, or ask in advance to know the name and contact info of those who will be given filming rights.  You are the first line of defense for your kid. If you DO sign it, keep a copy -- take a picture with your phone. And you see your kid's video online, contact the tournament organizer to see if you signed a waiver, get a copy of it, and demand to see the list of persons to whom credentials were given.

  (b)  Copyright laws won't help much since you probably don't own the copyright, but if the video wasn't shot by whoever is hosting it, contact the person to shot the video, demand to know what permissions they gave, and demand they do a DMCA takedown notice.  Similarly, if the video was shot without authorization of the event organizers, contact them with a demand to enforce their rights against unauthorized filmers.

  (c) Research and use child privacy laws in your state. This is going to be highly state-specific, as federal rights are more circumspect.  Some state laws are more robust (e.g. California's CCPA, updated by the CPRA).  Whatever form you signed, don't assume it includes a right to put a suggestive picture of your kid on the internet and profit from it. (And if your state has a crappy child privacy law, talk to your legislator.)

  (d)  Research and use right of publicity laws in your state.  Again, this is highly state specific, and more narrow and less useful than privacy laws, but may be useful if your kid isn't a minor, and may give a path to civil suit.  A copyright defense isn't necessarily a defense to an image appropriation.

3. Reach out to your state AG's office.  They have their own menu of options and may be able to pursue the photographer/videographer, whether criminally or civilly, based on some of the above avenues.

Youtube tells you exactly where your videos are embedded as a content creator. All law enforcement would have to do is 1. get that info from youtube.  2.  Search this person's computer and internet history to show he's posting stuff there. 

The real question is why doesn't youtube do this and then report it to law enforcement? Why has youtube allowed this crap on their website for so long? And why can't parents sue youtube for hosting the content and profiting off of it.  Yes, Youtube has made money off of this sick shit, but for some ***ducked** up reason isn't allowed to be held accountable for it. 

Edited January 2 by billyhoyle