Republican Oversight Committee rejects Hunter Biden's request to give his testimony in public

[headshuck]

I had no idea there were so many similar slogans before Trump. Did any of them make it onto a red, white or blue cap?

[ionel]

26 minutes ago, headshuck said:

I had no idea there were so many similar slogans before Trump. Did any of them make it onto a red, white or blue cap?

[Plasmodium]

I remember my kid turning heads at wrestling tournaments with "Yes We Can" shirts.

[Plasmodium]

14 minutes ago, ionel said:

He did put the wheels in motion to fake the moon landing, which was pretty great.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

He did put the wheels in motion to fake the moon landing, which was pretty great.

MAML

[ThreePointTakedown]

3 hours ago, jross said:

Which type of dictator does Trump want to be? military, one-party, personalist 

How does Trump plan to seize and maintain his dictatorship?

I don't think he is smart enough or able to actually pull it off. He is just trying to keep from dying in prison. Which is probably why he declared his candidacy for re-election on the day after his inauguration. Political donations are free money and grifters gonna grift and suckers are born every minute. He refused to release his taxes even though it was legal to do so. I would assume, knowing full well that when they did come out that THIS. WOULD. HAPPEN. TO. HIM! Now the only way out is a 4 year reprieve if he wins. Heaven forbid he doesn't die in office he'll be tried once he leaves office and go to jail then. But probably not because we usually don't put nearly 90 year old people in jail for a first offense. 
He's a toddler. They only know and act out of their own self interest. My opinion is that many of his supports know that and the fact that 'the other side' has such a problem with him, is a major source of satisfaction for them and why they haven't dropped him like a hot rock.  Now its a sunken cost issue. They've backed him publicly, so having to walk that back triggers their embarrassment and they grasp at anything to rationalize to themselves that there is a real true and honest reason to support such an awful human being. Which  means they've taken on some of his traits regardless of whether they wanted to. They can hand wave them away but his behavior towards minorities, muslims, immigrants, LGBTQ+ people, trans people, women, judges, clerks, past employees, members of his own family, man this list is getting long... was and is reprehensible. That they support him, means they support those actions, which makes them, maybe not, horrible people per se but horrible person-adjacent. They are the people that egg on the bully to beat up a weaker or different seeming person. They sleep at night believing they didn't have anything to do with it, but they did. 

Make America Less 'Great' in Certain Areas and More 'Great' in Other Areas!

[ThreePointTakedown]

4 hours ago, jross said:

The beautiful thing about the slogan is its positivity.  Because 'great' is an abstraction, it means whatever you and I want it to mean to us as individuals.

Why do people reframe MAGA as MABA, or 'Make America Bad Again?'

So you mentioned that it is an individual opinion but failed to state yours which was the basis of the question. 

Please answer the original question which was, what about America was great that is not now, what would you like to see comeback? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

4 hours ago, jross said:

Is it possible that Congress really is in lockstep in aligned beliefs?  ...yes

Is it likely?

Are you swimming in the swamp right now?

So you agree your charts say nothing to your point. Fantastic. Will you change your mind and stop inventing reasons to not have an open mind about things rather than, like you think about congress, being blinded by ideology? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

3 hours ago, jross said:

We can talk about 'great' without whatabouts.  I made up MABA just now because criticisms of MAGA are whataboutism.

If I say America was great when Congress voted across party lines in the 60s, a hater would say what about

• Civil Rights
• Assasinations of JFK, RFK, MLK
• Vietnam, Cold War

If I say the Roaring 20s were great for the economy, a hater would say what about

• inequality
• 1929 bubble burst
• prohibition and crime

A few years ago... five recruiters contacted me weekly about jobs... now it's maybe one per month.

If I say the 90s were great because I could ride my bike all over town as a child and all anyone worried about was being home before dark, a hater would say what about...

It's a damn shame we can't get people to acknowledge 'great' without reframing it to 'bad.'

So your answer is 'if I say things out loud I'll get some sort of push back on it, so rather then stating a belief and defending it, I just won't' 

You just reframed your point of facing any sort of consequences as 'bad'. 

The tax system of the 60's and 70's. A strong Glass-Steagall Act of the 30's. Better funding of public schools from the 60's or 70's. Cheaper higher education costs of the 60's and 70's. Strong labor unions of the 50's. Universal health care system of... Canada. Holiday for voting. Every eligible person gets a mail in ballot for every election, no matter how small. No more banning books. Kids get sex ed so they don't get pregnant or a STI. Religion either stops asking for tax money or they starting paying theirs. Voting Rights Act gets fully reinstated. Citizens United gets overturned. Political campaigns are publicly funded and last just 6 weeks or whatever Canada does(Damn, Canada has some good ideas). 

You can answer like that and not get any of the blowback you are scared of getting. 

With that in mind, do you have an issues with my list? 

[Bigbrog]

This is why I love Bill Burr....he talks about Trump and liberals and think his take is spot on...the whole clip is great but this part starts about 7:20 min in

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

2 hours ago, jross said:

What if Trump said these?

• "New Birth of Freedom" - Abraham Lincoln (1864)
• "Ma, Ma, Where's My Pa?" - James Blaine (1884)
• "America First" - Woodrow Wilson (1916)
• "Keep on the Sunny Side" - Warren G. Harding (1920)
• "Return to Normalcy" - Warren G. Harding (1920)
• "America: First, Last, and Always" - Calvin Coolidge (1924)
• "A Chicken in Every Pot and a Car in Every Garage" - Herbert Hoover (1928)
• "Peace, Prosperity, and Progress" - Herbert Hoover (1928)
• "A New Deal for the American People" - Franklin D. Roosevelt (1932)
• "The Buck Stops Here" - Harry S. Truman (1948)
• "A Time for Greatness" - Richard Nixon (1960)
• "The New Frontier" - John F. Kennedy (1960)
• "Stand Up for America" - Hubert Humphrey (1968)
• "Let's Get This Country Moving Again" - George McGovern (1972)
• "Let's Make America Great Again" - Ronald Reagan (1980)
• "Putting People First" - Bill Clinton (1992)
• "Believe in a Better America" - George W. Bush (1992)
• "Let's Make History Again" - Bill Clinton (1996)
• "Renewing America's Promise" - Barack Obama (2008)
• "Country First" - John McCain (2008)
• "Believe in America" - Mitt Romney (2012)
• "Restore Our Future" - Super PAC supporting Mitt Romney (2012)
• "An America We Can Believe In" - Barack Obama (2012)
• "Make America Great Again" - Donald Trump (2016)
• "Restore the American Dream for Hardworking Families" - Hillary Clinton (2016)
• "Keep America Great" - Donald Trump (2020)
• "Rebuilding the Road to Greatness" - Joe Biden (2020)
• "Build Back Better" - Joe Biden (2020)

Hater says

• "Build Back Better than what?  Is Trump just going to throw some 'better' bricks at our issues and hope they magically fix themselves?"
• "Oh, so Trump is wants to 'Restore the American Dream for Hardworking Families,' huh? Sounds heartwarming, but what about the single folks trying to make ends meet? Are they not dreaming of a better America, too? What about families that might not be the hardest workers? Do they get left out in the cold? Let's not forget those with disabilities – are they not part of the American Dream? It's like Trumpers are handing out dreams exclusively to hardworking families and leaving the rest of us to fend for ourselves. Where's the dream love for everyone else?"

Who cares!  Are you upset with the hypothetical response to things he's never said as if it is a legitimate point of contention?  Seems like your inventing ways for him to be a victim in this scenario, why?

You are carrying a ton of water for him. Why? 

Did he or they ever introduce a health care plan like he said they would? No. So he said 'screw you' to everyone! His supporters, his opponents. Rather then offer up something that could be beneficial to the country, he left you holding the bag. Why support someone who does that? He didn't push for it on his last few weeks. Something that could've drastically changed his legacy from what actually happened. If he couldn't use it to benefit himself he wasn't going to work for it or ask anyone else to do the same.  

Did he ever do infrastructure week/month/day/hour/minute like he said he would? No. (see above)

Did he try to ban people of a religion from coming into this country? How can you determine that btw? Not everyone from those countries fall into that category. Where is the line? 

Did he alter a graphic from NOAA with black pen to make it look like he was right when he lied about where a hurricane was going? Yes. 

Is he an idiot? Yes. Is his ego fragile to the point where he would do these things? I would venture to guess, yes. 

Does it seem as if some people are supporting him so they can bask in his hatefulness and not have to step out and expose themselves as hateful bigots? Yes. Does that seem to bother 45? It doesn't seem to. Does it bother his average supporter that he is ok with homophobes, bigots, and racists supporting him? Not enough. 

[mspart]

I think MAGA was a reaction to Obama who tried mightily to bring the prestige of the US down.   Is America Great he was asked.   Just like any other nation is great he responded.  

 

Is this economy going to improve?   This is the new normal.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2014/01/14/obamas-unemployment-new-normal-foretells-a-lost-decade/?sh=5f917dba6fee

...A quick look at the BLS Household Survey showed that, rather than being bad, December was actually a better-than-average month in President Obama’s “new normal” economy.  This is not a huge accomplishment, given that “Obama’s new normal” comprises slow GDP growth, a stagnant jobs market, and falling real household incomes.

These among other things Obama did to reduce the image of America across the world and within the country.   So Trump comes along, recognizes that and says, Rather than create a mediocre America, why don't we make America great again?  

mspart

[jross]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I don't think he is smart enough...

Should we fear a dictator who isn't smart enough to be a dictator?

[jross]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

What about America was great that is not now, what would you like to see comeback? 

What comes to mind immediately

• Better purchase power
• More affordable healthcare coverage for my family
• Safety ( "come home before dark" )
• Playing multiple sports & unstructured play
• Family

More... (no particular order)

1. Family was better; the two-parent household was more common; parents spent more time with their kids.
2. Affordability: providing for oneself and family was easier.
3. People were healthier, less obese, had better food, and had cheaper health care.
4. Better mental health
5. Kids played multiple recreational sports; they were not specialized in competitive club sports at age 7... not every minute of their day was planned.
6. I used to wave down police cars, socialize, and collect baseball cards for my home team.
7. Baseball cards were priced from Becket magazine rather than sent off for professional grading
8. Adults were treated with respect.  Sir, Maam, Hold the door open, pull out the chair, etc., and so on.
9. My car was safe to park in the city; there was no fear of stolen gas, converters, or broken windows.
10. Fights were settled with words or fists, not weapons.
11. Not all popular songs had offensive lyrics.  But also, MTV.
12. Space exploration was better funded.
13. Darker skies made it easier to see stars; less light pollution
14. The news was 'just the news.' / Journalism
15. Humans staffed customer service
16. The government was smaller
17. Congress voted across party lines
18. Privacy
19. 14-year-olds looked like they were 14 years old rather than 21-year-olds
20. People were not trying to get social media likes
21. Air travel was easier
22. You could say Merry Christmas rather than Happy Holidays
23. Working at a company for more than two years was common
24. Looney Tunes
25. Disney
26. Appliances lasted for years and years
27. Less national debt
28. College was more affordable
29. Calling for genocide was considered harassment
30. Less cancel culture
31. More things were 'made in America'
32. Less illegal immigration
33. People spent more time outside
34. Did you read this
35. Pride to be an American
36. Slower pace of life
37. Buy local
38. People made eye contact and spoke with others rather than staring at their phones
39. School taught practical skills
40. You had five seconds to eat food that touched the floor

Was this necessary for you to understand the point made?

I don't mind adding more examples to what was unnecessarily provided before... its good to write... it forces clarity of thought.

Queue the criticism for wrongthink and lack of mentioning privilege in 3...2...1... Action!

[headshuck]

Great list.

[ionel]

"Happy Days Are Here Again"

Isn't that basically MAGA?

or

"Return to normalcy" 

"Let America Be America Again" 

"Our Best America Yet!" 

Edited December 7, 2023 by ionel

[jross]

I don't need to win... poking fun at TDS is fun!

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, jross said:

I don't need to win... poking fun at TDS is fun!

 speaking of poking

"We Polked you in '44, We shall Pierce you in '52" 

who doesn't like chicken?

"A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage" 

or

"Vote yourself a farm and horses"

sounds like a bribe

Edited December 7, 2023 by ionel

[ThreePointTakedown]

19 hours ago, jross said:

Should we fear a dictator who isn't smart enough to be a dictator?

Yes, because the people who are guiding him and entertaining his worst impulses that are putting words in his mouth and looking to find other similarly minded people, will do most to all of the work, are not as stupid as he is and will live longer then he will and will have the most to lose if/when they are figured out. Cornered animals are most dangerous. 

Why are you trying to lower expectations to THE MOST authoritarian leaning, former President and legit presidential candidate we have EVER had? This guy is like if McCarthy of the 50's was reincarnated and rolled in cheeto dust. What is the up side of him coming in and burning it all to the ground? Will the people be better off as a whole or are you just unconcerned of how you, sitting in a place of privilege, will be effected, so the hell with everyone else?  Do you think you would come away unscathed? Whose faces do the leopards eat after all their opponents are gone? Are you of the correct religion? You better hope so. Were you a loud enough supporter of the right people and the right causes? I know people who lived through and were forced to flee the coup in Chile. Some members of their family did not. Many were hunted down, imprisoned or worse, because they, while remaining neutral through the coup did not loudly support the new regime. A coup we(America) supported btw. So military coups are in our nature. 

United States involvement in regime change
20th century
1948–1960s Italy 1949 Syrian coup d'état 1949–1953 Albania 1953 Iranian coup d'état 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état 1956–57 Syria crisis 1957–58 Indonesian rebellion 1959–1963 Iraq 1959–2000 assassination attempts on Fidel Castro 1959 Cambodia, Bangkok Plot 1960 Congo coup d'état 1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion 1961 Cuba, Operation Mongoose 1961 Dominican Republic 1963 South Vietnamese coup d'état 1964 Brazilian coup d'état 1965–66 Indonesia, Transition to the New Order 1966 Ghanaian coup d'état 1971 Bolivian coup d'état 1970–1973 Chile 1976 Argentine coup d'état 1979 Salvadoran coup d'état 1979–1992 Afghanistan, Operation Cyclone 1975–1992 Angola, UNITA 1981–1990 Nicaragua, Contras 1982 Chad 1990s Iraq, failed coup d'état
21st century
2011 Libya 2012–2017 Syria, Timber Sycamore

 

Its not as if we don't have experience. 

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Yes, because the people who are guiding him ...

 

People are guiding Trump?  So now he isn't a dictator he's a puppet?

[ThreePointTakedown]

20 hours ago, jross said:

What comes to mind immediately

• Better purchase power
• More affordable healthcare coverage for my family
• Safety ( "come home before dark" )
• Playing multiple sports & unstructured play
• Family

More... (no particular order)

1. Family was better; the two-parent household was more common; parents spent more time with their kids.
2. Affordability: providing for oneself and family was easier.
3. People were healthier, less obese, had better food, and had cheaper health care.
4. Better mental health
5. Kids played multiple recreational sports; they were not specialized in competitive club sports at age 7... not every minute of their day was planned.
6. I used to wave down police cars, socialize, and collect baseball cards for my home team.
7. Baseball cards were priced from Becket magazine rather than sent off for professional grading
8. Adults were treated with respect.  Sir, Maam, Hold the door open, pull out the chair, etc., and so on.
9. My car was safe to park in the city; there was no fear of stolen gas, converters, or broken windows.
10. Fights were settled with words or fists, not weapons.
11. Not all popular songs had offensive lyrics.  But also, MTV.
12. Space exploration was better funded.
13. Darker skies made it easier to see stars; less light pollution
14. The news was 'just the news.' / Journalism
15. Humans staffed customer service
16. The government was smaller
17. Congress voted across party lines
18. Privacy
19. 14-year-olds looked like they were 14 years old rather than 21-year-olds
20. People were not trying to get social media likes
21. Air travel was easier
22. You could say Merry Christmas rather than Happy Holidays
23. Working at a company for more than two years was common
24. Looney Tunes
25. Disney
26. Appliances lasted for years and years
27. Less national debt
28. College was more affordable
29. Calling for genocide was considered harassment
30. Less cancel culture
31. More things were 'made in America'
32. Less illegal immigration
33. People spent more time outside
34. Did you read this
35. Pride to be an American
36. Slower pace of life
37. Buy local
38. People made eye contact and spoke with others rather than staring at their phones
39. School taught practical skills
40. You had five seconds to eat food that touched the floor

Was this necessary for you to understand the point made?

I don't mind adding more examples to what was unnecessarily provided before... its good to write... it forces clarity of thought.

Queue the criticism for wrongthink and lack of mentioning privilege in 3...2...1... Action!

What comes to mind immediately

• Better purchase power the economy is better now and under Dem presidents then the last 4 Reps. You're welcome.
• More affordable healthcare coverage for my family Your vote for universal health care is appreciated
• Safety ( "come home before dark" ) that's on you as a parent
• Playing multiple sports & unstructured play still a thing, never left
• Family never left

More... (no particular order)

1. Family was better; the two-parent household was more common; parents spent more time with their kids. couples that want to BE together are happier, people work too much i agree, wages should go up so we don't have to work as much, glad you agree.
2. Affordability: providing for oneself and family was easier. your gripe is with corporations buying up houses and charging outrageous rent, squeezing people for all they have, they should probably pay more taxes because of that, don't you think, glad you agree
3. People were healthier, less obese, had better food, and had cheaper health care. what do you attribute that to? People weren't healthier, you just see it through one metric as usually and paint everything with that brush
4. Better mental health nope, just like gay, trans, and all the other new things that scare you, it was always there, we just didn't talk about it because people were/are ashamed and stigmatized for being different, I wonder which president would love for america to be 'great' like that again?
5. Kids played multiple recreational sports; they were not specialized in competitive club sports at age 7... not every minute of their day was planned. again, you probably have a small sample size and are extrapolating that out to everyone. 
6. I used to wave down police cars, socialize, and collect baseball cards for my home team. congrats
7. Baseball cards were priced from Becket magazine rather than sent off for professional grading I have some doggecoin to sell you if you're interested
8. Adults were treated with respect.  Sir, Maam, Hold the door open, pull out the chair, etc., and so on. I use to watch re-runs of leave it to beaver too
9. My car was safe to park in the city; there was no fear of stolen gas, converters, or broken windows. UIB again, small sample size, chances are crime rate was higher overall
10. Fights were settled with words or fists, not weapons. nope
11. Not all popular songs had offensive lyrics.  But also, MTV. i'm sorry you don't understand art, can't help you there, just stare at the guy with the pitch fork maybe it'll hit you
12. Space exploration was better funded. fewer bored billionaires burning money, ya. maybe we should tax them and give it to the professionals instead? 
13. Darker skies made it easier to see stars; less light pollution circadian  rhythm  is a thing, ya
14. The news was 'just the news.' / Journalism still is
15. Humans staffed customer service no one will  ever be happy with customer service, join the club
16. The government was smaller nope, try again
17. Congress voted across party lines nope
18. Privacy nope, no one cares what you're doing, they care what you might want to buy, that's it
19. 14-year-olds looked like they were 14 years old rather than 21-year-olds now you're getting into weird territory, i'm just gonna leave this one alone, 
20. People were not trying to get social media likes they always were, you know it, there was no global entity offering the opportunity or you would've taken it back then too
21. Air travel was easier easier? eh, gonna need clarification on this one
22. You could say Merry Christmas rather than Happy Holidays this one is stupid, if you want it to be a truly religious holiday, offer to work, other wise shut up!  what other religion gets a day off work pretty much across the board? None. 
23. Working at a company for more than two years was common yes there were fewer places to work and more anxiety about getting out of a thing that you weren't enjoying or meeting your needs. Seems like we are always talking about 'no fault divorce' why is that? 
24. Looney Tunes subtly racist
25. Disney he was anti semitic. did great work in 1893 though
26. Appliances lasted for years and years still do
27. Less national debt want to see a break down of debt accrued by R's vs D's? 
28. College was more affordable agreed, Reagan made sure to carpet bomb that, along with other places
29. Calling for genocide was considered harassment not sure where you're going with this, anything you want to get off your chest? 
30. Less cancel culture might as well say, 'we didn't have consequences for the obviously offensive thing we use to do' This is the dumbest thing you've said so far, well done. 
31. More things were 'made in America' maybe
32. Less illegal immigration agreed, we hadn't had the chance to destabilize  as many other places
33. People spent more time outside maybe
34. Did you read this are getting excited, you can say it
35. Pride to be an American Next dumbest thing you've said
36. Slower pace of life its relative
37. Buy local corporations hadn't cornered every market, break em up? agreed
38. People made eye contact and spoke with others rather than staring at their phones you don't care about other people, don't lie
39. School taught practical skills then they were defunded and now its just the four core disciplines. why don't you yell for more money in education? quitter
40. You had five seconds to eat food that touched the floor you can have leave that one where ever it came from Myth-Busted!

Was this necessary for you to understand the point made? still don't think you answered the question, is there a time(date, range) I gave you a few, you just gave useless platitudes about your privileged upbringing. Congrats, you like your life and from what I've gathered you could care less about working to help people less well off than you to get a hand in life. So, yes, you can keep writing this stuff and I'll keep replying because the people who read it are thinking about it realizing they don't want to be like you. 

I don't mind adding more examples to what was unnecessarily provided before... its good to write... it forces clarity of thought. 

Queue the criticism for wrongthink and lack of mentioning privilege in 3...2...1... Action! Your jokes only highlight how little you care about others and that you're only in it for yourself. So you will support and vote for 45 again and again because you are the same. Need some cheetos?

[ThreePointTakedown]

24 minutes ago, ionel said:

People are guiding Trump?  So now he isn't a dictator he's a puppet?

Stalin didn't murder millions of Russians, himself. Pol Pot, Mao, Idi Amine, maybe they had help. 

People with similar interests flock together. Sorry if you needed the dunk for your dopamine. I hope it worked. 

[mspart]

I think this talk of him being or becoming a dictator are way overblown.   It is TDS on steroids.   He has never dictated anything as President that anyone can bring up.   Unless you count EOs.   He did use them.   Just like Obama and Biden used them.  Just like Bush.   Every President uses them.   So unless there is other evidence, I say this is overblown hysteria by hysterical people.  

mspart

[mspart]

Just now, ThreePointTakedown said:

Stalin didn't murder millions of Russians, himself. Pol Pot, Mao, Idi Amine, maybe they had help. 

People with similar interests flock together. Sorry if you needed the dunk for your dopamine. I hope it worked. 

So now you are saying Trump is right in there with Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and Idi Amin?   TDS on steroids.   There is no way this happens.   It doesn't happen.  He showed no such inclination before.  This is grasping at straws with no evidence to back it up. 

mspart

[ionel]

16 minutes ago, mspart said:

So now you are saying Trump is right in there with Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and Idi Amin?   TDS on steroids.   There is no way this happens.   It doesn't happen.  He showed no such inclination before.  This is grasping at straws with no evidence to back it up. 

mspart

If Trump is elected (personally hope not) the first dictatorial duties should be to fast track the vaccine (this is gonna get bad) he can do the wall and drill on day 2.