Israel Attacked

[Bigbrog]

10 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Speaking of narcissists, my point wasn't directed toward you at all. It's sooo not always about you.

My point was directed toward social media in general. Not just here. So many seem to think that they have to "take a side." It is discouraging to watch so many folks post in that manner.

Wake up and take a look - you'll see so many on social media trying to make it into a B&W discussion.

Or just bitch at me some more. You seem more interested in wasting your effort targeting me.

 

Ironically, I wasn't directing my point solely at you nor calling YOU the narcissist (maybe I should have) so quit getting your undies in a bunch...again...if I had directed it at you I would have quoted you directly, like I just did.  And how in the hell did I make this about me? 

Anyway, this is about innocent people getting bombed and killed...period.   And your point isn't lost on what social media is saying as that cesspool of crap does it about every single topic...these BBS included.  Reason number 63456 why I don't twitter and never read any "news" or the comments on FB.

 

[Plasmodium]

Now for the inevitable counter attack against non-combatants.  Food, water and energy are shut off to Gaza.  It is an ugly, ugly cycle.

[Bigbrog]

15 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Now for the inevitable counter attack against non-combatants.  Food, water and energy are shut off to Gaza.  It is an ugly, ugly cycle.

Yes it is

[Offthemat]

Victor Davis Hanson:

”In other words, few will pay any more attention to the Squads of the world, or the radical Jew-haters of the Western Left, or the Democratic-Socialists of America who cheered on the killing. They are now revealed on the side of death for death’s sake and cannot be reasoned with.”

https://victorhanson.com/reflections-on-israels-new-existential-war/

[Offthemat]

Nayib Bukele

 

 

@nayibbukele

 

 

As a Salvadoran with Palestinian ancestry, I'm sure the best thing that could happen to the Palestinian people is for Hamas to completely disappear. Those savage beasts do not represent the Palestinians. Anyone who supports the Palestinian cause would make a great mistake siding with those criminals. It would be like if Salvadorans would have sided with MS13 terrorists, just because we share ancestors or nationality. The best thing that happened to us as a nation was to get rid of those rapists and murderers, and let the good people thrive. Palestinians should do the same: get rid of those animals and let the good people thrive. That's the only way forward.

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

Nayib Bukele, El Salvador's topmost leader, sure has inspired many Salvadorans.   More power to him, but I cannot help but worry about the mass incarceration of innocent folks along with the Mara (etc.) thugs.   Some folks may have just dressed like Mara and gotten gang-style tattoos to avoid being targeted.   Any idea what percentage of folks imprisoned in Bukele's purges are actually innocent?   Hopefully it's extremely low. 

[Gus]

2 hours ago, Ban Basketball said:

Being that Satan opposes God in general, not just the Christian nor Jewish image of God, why would he be excluding Muslims, given that they have the same God?

Satan knows God's power and sovereignty and wishes to exalt himself above or equal to God. Because the nation of Israel was God's chosen people as outlined in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12:1-3 & promise of a redeemer is given through the bloodline of David is given in the Davidic Covenant in 2 Samuel 7:12-16 - Satan set his forces of opposition against the nation of Israel. When Christ was crucified on the cross of Calvary, Satan actually thought he had won by defeating the redeemer. What Satan did not realize was that through the cross, Christ's blood was shed as a once for all sin payment for the world. It was the ultimate "gotcha" moment. Satan thought he had victory, but he really gave victory to every person in the human race by the death of Christ. God reconciled himself to the world through the Lord Jesus Christ. Satan is focused on the unbelieving world today to take as many people with him to the lake of fire as he can. He knows that they have a "get out of jail free card" that they can lay at anytime (Faith alone in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for salvation) so he attempts to blind the people and keep them away from God's redeeming grace. The plan for Satan's eternal punishment is laid out in Revelation and he knows that the Nation of Israel will once again be at the center during the 7 year tribulation period. He thinks that if he can rid the earth of the Jewish people, then there will be no one left from the Jewish lineage to carry out the events that will happen in the 7 year tribulation period. As far as other religions are concerned, they do not believe in Jehovah, the son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ so Satan is they are already in unbelief. 

[Ban Basketball]

1 hour ago, Gus said:

Satan knows God's power and sovereignty and wishes to exalt himself above or equal to God. Because the nation of Israel was God's chosen people as outlined in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12:1-3 & promise of a redeemer is given through the bloodline of David is given in the Davidic Covenant in 2 Samuel 7:12-16 - Satan set his forces of opposition against the nation of Israel. When Christ was crucified on the cross of Calvary, Satan actually thought he had won by defeating the redeemer. What Satan did not realize was that through the cross, Christ's blood was shed as a once for all sin payment for the world. It was the ultimate "gotcha" moment. Satan thought he had victory, but he really gave victory to every person in the human race by the death of Christ. God reconciled himself to the world through the Lord Jesus Christ. Satan is focused on the unbelieving world today to take as many people with him to the lake of fire as he can. He knows that they have a "get out of jail free card" that they can lay at anytime (Faith alone in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for salvation) so he attempts to blind the people and keep them away from God's redeeming grace. The plan for Satan's eternal punishment is laid out in Revelation and he knows that the Nation of Israel will once again be at the center during the 7 year tribulation period. He thinks that if he can rid the earth of the Jewish people, then there will be no one left from the Jewish lineage to carry out the events that will happen in the 7 year tribulation period. As far as other religions are concerned, they do not believe in Jehovah, the son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ so Satan is they are already in unbelief. 

Satan is opposed to God, which the three monotheistic religions hold "possession" of the same one.  

It's the same God, so,  no,  Satan isn't picking Islam over Judaism, or even Christianity,  for that matter. 

[Gus]

7 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

Satan is opposed to God, which the three monotheistic religions hold "possession" of the same one.  

It's the same God, so,  no,  Satan isn't picking Islam over Judaism, or even Christianity,  for that matter. 

Satan is okay with getting people to believe anything but the power of salvation by grace through faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Satan is not working with the guy on skid row, he's doing some of his most powerful work in "Christian" denominations. He is the great deceiver, the counterfeit, taking seemingly "good" things twisting them to make them evil. 2 Cor 11:13-15 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." Any religion that does not acknowledge the Jesus Christ a member of the godhead and as the eternal savior for mankind is not of God. The only way to the Father, is through the Son. Satan believes in God. Believing in God is not enough to avoid eternal damnation. 

[Ban Basketball]

2 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Victor Davis Hanson:

”In other words, few will pay any more attention to the Squads of the world, or the radical Jew-haters of the Western Left, or the Democratic-Socialists of America who cheered on the killing. They are now revealed on the side of death for death’s sake and cannot be reasoned with.”

https://victorhanson.com/reflections-on-israels-new-existential-war/

Unfortunately,  data doesn't match your nonsensical assertion here,  Camp Auschwitz.

[mspart]

These was an act of barbarism and cowardice in gunning down 260 students at a party and the other actions they took against civilians.   This action should be condemned in the harshest way.  

Question:   What did Hamas think was going to happen when they did this?  That Israel would go, "oops my bad"? 

In 2005, Israel handed the Gaza Strip over to the Palestinians and rockets have poured over from there ever since.   Shortly after getting sole possession of the Gaza land, they voted for Hamas to run things.   And Hamas has always been about peace right? 

Gaza should not be surprised at the Israeli reaction and current siege.  They essentially requested it, probably hoping it would bring in the rest of the middle east into the fight.  

mspart

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

These was an act of barbarism and cowardice in gunning down 260 students at a party and the other actions they took against civilians.   This action should be condemned in the harshest way.  

Question:   What did Hamas think was going to happen when they did this?  That Israel would go, "oops my bad"? 

In 2005, Israel handed the Gaza Strip over to the Palestinians and rockets have poured over from there ever since.   Shortly after getting sole possession of the Gaza land, they voted for Hamas to run things.   And Hamas has always been about peace right? 

Gaza should not be surprised at the Israeli reaction and current siege.  They essentially requested it, probably hoping it would bring in the rest of the middle east into the fight.  

mspart

Iran wants to prevent the normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations with Israel.  

[Le duke]

I have mixed feelings on this.

1) As in Afghanistan and Iraq, the people in the West Bank knew/know who Hamas is, what they were up to, and turned a blind eye to it. Apathy has the same result as being party to it, in this case. If you’re hanging out in the vicinity of rocket launchers when they are about to let loose on some rounds headed to Jerusalem and you get smoked by a 500 pound bomb dropped by the IDF from 30,000ft, sucks to suck.

2) In a lot of the videos I’ve seen, it’s just a bunch of young or middle aged men doing … whatever. No women, no children. Unfortunately, while the IDF tends to *try* to observe the principal of proportionality, even a 200lb bomb is absolutely gigantic in terms of what it can destroy. The kids and women near those detonations, hiding and fearing for their lives, don’t deserve what is almost certainly happening to them.

3) Al Qassam just announced that they are going to start filming and broadcasting the executions of the Israelis they’ve captured. If your goal is to draw sympathy from the rest of the world, this ain’t it, dawg.


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[uncle bernard]

Any discussion that doesn't begin with the occupation is wrong from the start. The Palestinians were forcibly removed from there homes, packed into a small strip of land where their movements, economic activity, religious expression, etc...are controlled by an occupying army. Gaza is the world's largest open air prison and it's been that way for decades.

While the attacks on civilians are heinous, we should also remember that Israel has killed 12x as many civilians since 2000. You don't see Western media ask them to apologize for that. You can't treat people like this and expect them to lay down.

The Israeli government led its people to this horrifying moment. Ironically, Israeli media has far more freedom to acknowledge this obvious fact than Western media sources, who won't acknowledge the obvious:

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000

Excellent interview from a Palestinian activist on CNN: 

 

CNN's booker probably got fired for this.

 

 

[uncle bernard]

8 minutes ago, Le duke said:

I have mixed feelings on this.

1) As in Afghanistan and Iraq, the people in the West Bank knew/know who Hamas is, what they were up to, and turned a blind eye to it. Apathy has the same result as being party to it, in this case. If you’re hanging out in the vicinity of rocket launchers when they are about to let loose on some rounds headed to Jerusalem and you get smoked by a 500 pound bomb dropped by the IDF from 30,000ft, sucks to suck.

2) In a lot of the videos I’ve seen, it’s just a bunch of young or middle aged men doing … whatever. No women, no children. Unfortunately, while the IDF tends to *try* to observe the principal of proportionality, even a 200lb bomb is absolutely gigantic in terms of what it can destroy. The kids and women near those detonations, hiding and fearing for their lives, don’t deserve what is almost certainly happening to them.


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This is isolated from the historical context. Israel empowered Hamas (very much on purpose) by stonewalling any sort of peaceful attempt at a solution by the Palestinians. Hamas is what you get when a people are desperate and hopeless.

These are human beings. After 70 years of failure to regain their homes, how can we expect them not to turn to a force like Hamas?

[uncle bernard]

Important to remember that Israel essentially created Hamas out of disparate fringe Islamist groups in the 1980s with the intention of weakening the PLO. Not conspiracy, this is explicitly stated by Israeli officials.

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

Inconvenient fact - The West is the number 1 sponsor of Islamist Extremism in the world. Nearly every Islamist movement got its start or was built up by an alliance with Western interests trying to undermine a regional power.

[Le duke]

This is isolated from the historical context. Israel empowered Hamas (very much on purpose) by stonewalling any sort of peaceful attempt at a solution by the Palestinians. Hamas is what you get when a people are desperate and hopeless.
These are human beings. After 70 years of failure to regain their homes, how can we expect them not to turn to a force like Hamas?

When I see men, women and children cheering as a rape victim (bleeding from her genitalia) is paraded before them, I’d ask myself:

If I were an IDF soldier or pilot and I saw that, how would I react? I can’t say that I know. But, if Palestinians can devalue human life and dignity so easily, so can Israelis.


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[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

When I see men, women and children cheering as a rape victim (bleeding from her genitalia) is paraded before them, I’d ask myself:

If I were an IDF soldier or pilot and I saw that, how would I react? I can’t say that I know. But, if Palestinians can devalue human life and dignity so easily, so can Israelis.


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You've got the order backwards. The treatment Hamas dealt out this weekend is the same treatment Palestinians receive in Gaza regularly. Israel killed 100s of Palestinian civilians in the past couple years *prior to this week's violence*. Prior to this week, in the last 15 years, Israel killed 6400 civilians. Palestine killed 300. 21x the amount. The poverty rate in Gaza is over 50%. Israel controls their economic activity.

Same goes for what the US army did in the Iraq and Afghanistan, they kill your friends and family, reduce your home to rubble, and make you live in extreme poverty and you're not supposed to feel violent towards them?

When you treat people like animals, they will eventually become animals.

[Le duke]

You've got the order backwards. The treatment Hamas dealt out this weekend is the same treatment Palestinians receive in Gaza regularly. Israel killed 100s of Palestinian civilians in the past couple years *prior to this week's violence*. Prior to this week, in the last 15 years, Israel killed 6400 civilians. Palestine killed 300. 21x the amount. The poverty rate in Gaza is over 50%. Israel controls their economic activity.
Same goes for what the US army did in the Iraq and Afghanistan, they kill your friends and family, reduce your home to rubble, and make you live in extreme poverty and you're not supposed to feel violent towards them?
When you treat people like animals, they will eventually become animals.

The US military made people live in extreme poverty in Afghanistan? In Iraq? Seriously?

That’s some really weird, revisionist history.


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[uncle bernard]

Also, the Palestinians have tried plenty of peaceful avenues.

Their activists travel and campaign across the world for their freedom. Israel deemed that provocative and violent.

They started a Boycott movement akin to the South Africa apartheid boycotts. Israel and Western Media deemed it anti-Semitic and therefore violent. 

In 2018, they did a march for return at the border fence. Thousands of unarmed Palestinians marched on the border fence. Israel welcomed them with live ammunition. Over 200 dead, nearly 1000 wounded. In addition, Israeli snipers targeted field medics and journalists. They have a longstanding history of doing so, notably including the murder of Shireen Abu Akleh, the most famous journalist in the Arab world. She was shot in the head by an Israeli sniper while covering an Israeli raid of a refugee camp. She was wearing clear identification as a journalist. The UN's investigation confirms that this was a targeted Israeli sniper attack.

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

 

The US military made people live in extreme poverty in Afghanistan? In Iraq? Seriously?

That’s some really weird, revisionist history.


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Yes, they did. Worse than before. You think the living conditions were stable during the war? That's some serious revisionist history.

Notably in Iraq, the occupying force liquidated most of the Iraqi workforce. Their cities in ruin, their jobs gone, most of these young men turned to the militant groups in the countryside. This is basic history. 

[uncle bernard]

You can all live in a fantasy land where you think "oh if I was treated that badly, I would be the bigger man and not return fire."

But history tells a different story. Every time there is an invasion/occupation we see an equal reaction from the local population. They turn to violence against violence. Nothing changes if we ignore the root cause, the invasion/occupation. 

[uncle bernard]

If any of the people in this thread had to live in Gaza, they'd be screaming Allahu Akbar and firing a rocket over the fence in a week. 

[Plasmodium]

Uncle Bernie speaks truth.

[Le duke]

Yes, they did. Worse than before. You think the living conditions were stable during the war? That's some serious revisionist history.
Notably in Iraq, the occupying force liquidated most of the Iraqi workforce. Their cities in ruin, their jobs gone, most of these young men turned to the militant groups in the countryside. This is basic history. 

I’ll let you in on a little secret:

I spent a good amount of time in Afghanistan. I was never ordered to go anywhere without a very high likelihood of bad dudes doing bad things there. And by that, I mean live, persistent video footage of those bad dudes. We took extreme pains to avoid harming anyone without cause, sometimes to our detriment. Sometimes those multiple levels of controls fail, but relatively rarely.

Walked right on past a bunch of villages in the dark of night without anyone knowing I was there until they saw our footprints the next morning. Sometimes we’d return to places that had been targeted previously and speak to village elders. When a person tells you, to your face that they’ve never met a recently deceased, targeted individual, when you’ve seen them talking to each other (via multiple modes of observation, in some cases) a bit of compassion goes out the window.

Re: poverty. The populace let a gang of miscreants take over their country, multiple times. When I saw video footage of tens and tens of thousands of fighting age men trying to escape in 2021, I truly stopped caring. They deserve the Taliban.


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