Gus Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 42 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said: I have no alarm with it. I know too many people who study and know alternative energies to be alarmed, as I've not met one who share these concerns. Keep drinking the Kool aid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ban Basketball Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 21 minutes ago, Gus said: Keep drinking the Kool aid If kool aid means scientists who work in the industry, serve me up a tall glass! 1 Owner of over two decades of the most dangerous words on the internet! In fact, during the short life of this forum, me's culture has been cancelled three times on this very site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gus said: I don’t need the energy companies to say anything! Two winters ago they were shutting down the electrical grid in the Midwest and leaving the midwesterners without power when it was 20 below zero to support the electrical grid in Texas because of the added load during a cold snap of weather. Now imagine adding more load from additional hvac equipment (no more natural gas allowed) and EV’s (no more gas allowed). How are you going to make it up? And at what cost? More rolling blackouts? Have you looked at the carbon footprint of one solar panel or a wind turbine? They will never even last long enough to offset their carbon footprints. How about the financial feasibility of them? With no government incentives, they are a terrible investment. What about batteries for EV’s? There’s not enough lithium and the carbon footprint of mining it is massive! It’s a sinking ship. Until there is a totally new technology developed we need to stick with fossil fuels or we need to embrace nuclear. Are you sure that is right? One of the hallmarks of the Texas power grid is that it has very liitle connection to other grids. And every post mortem I read referred to outages in Texas due to frozen equipment and the inability of natural gas producers to deliver to electricity producers. That, combined with their relative isolation from other grids resulted in a power generation shortfall. I believe the Eastern and Western grids had sufficient power and interconnectivity such that there were no midwest blackouts. As a midwesterner, I do not recall any that winter. I think the blackouts were isolated in Texas. Edited September 12, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 29 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Are you sure that is right? One of the hallmarks of the Texas power grid is that it has very liitle connection to other grids. And every post mortem I read referred to outages in Texas due to frozen equipment and the inability of natural gas producers to deliver to electricity producers. That, combined with their relative isolation from other grids resulted in a power generation shortfall. I believe the Eastern and Western grids had sufficient power and interconnectivity such that there were no midwest blackouts. As a midwesterner, I do not recall any that winter. I think the blackouts were isolated in Texas. Yes, I am 100% sure. The utilities companies sent out emails and they shut down power to facilitate helping out the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Gus said: Yes, I am 100% sure. The utilities companies sent out emails and they shut down power to facilitate helping out the south. Sounds like it may be pure capitalism. Texans were paying unbelievable sums for power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: Sounds like it may be pure capitalism. Texans were paying unbelievable sums for power. Looks like the majority of Texas is not connected to the grid serving the Midwest but parts of northern Texas are. Yes, what they did as far as raising energy rates in Texas and causing people to pay exponentially more for power during crisis should have been criminal. https://www.weareiowa.com/amp/article/news/local/rolling-power-outages-in-iowa-cold-temperatures/524-29b03e60-0309-4217-93a8-5ac2d750463a https://spp.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Gus said: Looks like the majority of Texas is not connected to the grid serving the Midwest but parts of northern Texas are. Yes, what they did as far as raising energy rates in Texas and causing people to pay exponentially more for power during crisis should have been criminal. https://www.weareiowa.com/amp/article/news/local/rolling-power-outages-in-iowa-cold-temperatures/524-29b03e60-0309-4217-93a8-5ac2d750463a https://spp.org Who do you mean by they? The free market? Texas chose their system with intent knowing that extreme high prices were a possibility. And individual customers chose a market rate plan intentionally. They could have chosen fixed rate plans, but did not. They all made these decisions assuming Texas would never be short of energy sources with which to generate eletricity. They were just wrong. Nothing criminal, just bad choices. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 18 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: Sounds like it may be pure capitalism. Texans were paying unbelievable sums for power. That was due to their isolation. Other power companies could not take advantage of high rates in Texas by shipping electricity there due to the relative lack of interconnectivity. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 36 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Who do you mean by they? The free market? Texas chose their system with intent knowing that extreme high prices were a possibility. And individual customers chose a market rate plan intentionally. They could have chosen fixed rate plans, but did not. They all made these decisions assuming Texas would never be short of energy sources with which to generate eletricity. They were just wrong. Nothing criminal, just bad choices. It’s called price gouging and it should be illegal. Just like when baby formula was going up 2 or 3 times in cost at the start of Covid. Or when business double or triple the costs of generators or bottled water before a hurricane. It’s unethical and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWhiteNorth Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gus said: It’s called price gouging and it should be illegal. Just like when baby formula was going up 2 or 3 times in cost at the start of Covid. Or when business double or triple the costs of generators or bottled water before a hurricane. It’s unethical and wrong. You are not wrong. Problem is that the authority that needs to be accountable is the Governor of TX. Buck stops there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: You are not wrong. Problem is that the authority that needs to be accountable is the Governor of TX. Buck stops there. It’s a private organization governed by a board of directors and has oversight from the TX public utilities commission. It’s supposed to be a non-profit. But so are a lot of hospitals, the NCAA, etc and we see how they achieve that non-profit status so it’s not surprising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 18 minutes ago, Gus said: It’s called price gouging and it should be illegal. Just like when baby formula was going up 2 or 3 times in cost at the start of Covid. Or when business double or triple the costs of generators or bottled water before a hurricane. It’s unethical and wrong. But what do you do when it is the state government making the price gouging decisions? https://www.newsweek.com/gov-abbott-ordered-price-gouge-during-outages-former-texas-energy-chief-1682112 https://sanantonioreport.org/texas-supreme-court-ercot-cps-energy-winter-storm-lawsuit/#:~:text=The decision effectively dismisses CPS,municipally owned utility %241 billion. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ban Basketball Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 I live dead in the middle of the midwest and no power outages here when Texas energy capitalism couldn't keep up. Owner of over two decades of the most dangerous words on the internet! In fact, during the short life of this forum, me's culture has been cancelled three times on this very site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 So is it capitalism or was it the governor's fault?? Can't keep up with the hypocritical logic (hard using that word describing what some on here are posting). Can we just get back to repeating the same phrases over and over again...what was it about "facts"?? Or "reality versus fantasy" or something?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 9 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: But what do you do when it is the state government making the price gouging decisions? https://www.newsweek.com/gov-abbott-ordered-price-gouge-during-outages-former-texas-energy-chief-1682112 https://sanantonioreport.org/texas-supreme-court-ercot-cps-energy-winter-storm-lawsuit/#:~:text=The decision effectively dismisses CPS,municipally owned utility %241 billion. Price gouging is messed up no matter who does it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Ban Basketball said: I live dead in the middle of the midwest and no power outages here when Texas energy capitalism couldn't keep up. The grid that is connected to northern Texas is also shared by western Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, Gus said: The grid that is connected to northern Texas is also shared by western Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, ionel said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 The only electricity we use for heat is what’s needed for the thermostat and blowers. I can do that with my generator. If the gas goes down I can use wood. If it ever comes to that, it’ll be because of the insane venture to these huge rare bird vegematics that blithering idiots have bought into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ban Basketball Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Gus said: The grid that is connected to northern Texas is also shared by western Iowa. Maybe. I just never heard of any such blackouts here, but I could be wrong. Owner of over two decades of the most dangerous words on the internet! In fact, during the short life of this forum, me's culture has been cancelled three times on this very site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Slack Wasatch via Snow College, Utah Class of 2024 Committed to Utah Valley Projected Weight: 197
Kasey Curtis North Sanpete via Snow College, Utah Class of 2024 Committed to Utah Valley Projected Weight: 133
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