Big 10, Big 12, and Pac 12 shuffle (maybe) coming in hot

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

Hopefully the following opportunity can thrive amidst the changes being contemplated:

What if Texas adds NCAA D1 wrestling at Tarleton State U.?

https://tarletonsports.com/

Then the Western Athletic Conference (WAC) would (sort of) have 4 programs:

Air Force (an affiliate in some women's sports...);
Tarleton State U. 
Utah Valley U. 
California Baptist U.

https://wacsports.com/sports/2023/4/28/about-memberschools22-23.aspx

OK, some of these other schools are already spoken for, conference-wise.  But maybe conference affiliations can co-exist somehow?   It would be nice to see the WAC recognize wrestling as a conference sport, wouldn't it?

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

Note the second sentence of the official Big Ten announcement:

 

ROSEMONT, Ill. – The Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors (COP/C) voted unanimously today to admit the University of Oregon and the University of Washington to the Big Ten Conference effective August 2, 2024, with competition to begin in all sports for the 2024-25 academic year. With the schools’ admission, Oregon and Washington will also join the Big Ten Academic Alliance (BTAA), a consortium of world-class research institutions dedicated to advancing their academic missions.

 

Washington is a powerhouse research institution. By my calculations the current and future conference members had a total of over 1,300 patents granted by the United States last year. The data is from the top fifty schools on the list of institutions with the most patents granted. By comparison, the SEC had 139 patents granted.

During his lifetime, Thomas Edison (and his research park) received 1,093 US patents. The US granted 161 patents to Henry Ford. 

The University of ILLINOIS spent over a billion dollars on research every year since 2017. Not all of the patents are worth the digital ink used to store them, but every year since 2017, ILLINOIS has signed more than 100 options and license agreements. That's where the real money is. Now, the scientists, doctors and engineers at Big Ten schools can work with those at UCLA or Washington and share in the ah advancement of knowledge and the um betterment of the human condition. 

My speculation for the next schools to join the conference in order: Stanford, Cal, North Carolina, and Virgina. Clemson and Florida State make no sense, and nothing else in the PAC10 is particularly tantalizing. 

 

 

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Note the second sentence of the official Big Ten announcement:

 

ROSEMONT, Ill. – The Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors (COP/C) voted unanimously today to admit the University of Oregon and the University of Washington to the Big Ten Conference effective August 2, 2024, with competition to begin in all sports for the 2024-25 academic year. With the schools’ admission, Oregon and Washington will also join the Big Ten Academic Alliance (BTAA), a consortium of world-class research institutions dedicated to advancing their academic missions.

 

Washington is a powerhouse research institution. By my calculations the current and future conference members had a total of over 1,300 patents granted by the United States last year. The data is from the top fifty schools on the list of institutions with the most patents granted. By comparison, the SEC had 139 patents granted.

During his lifetime, Thomas Edison (and his research park) received 1,093 US patents. The US granted 161 patents to Henry Ford. 

The University of ILLINOIS spent over a billion dollars on research every year since 2017. Not all of the patents are worth the digital ink used to store them, but every year since 2017, ILLINOIS has signed more than 100 options and license agreements. That's where the real money is. Now, the scientists, doctors and engineers at Big Ten schools can work with those at UCLA or Washington and share in the ah advancement of knowledge and the um betterment of the human condition. 

My speculation for the next schools to join the conference in order: Stanford, Cal, North Carolina, and Virgina. Clemson and Florida State make no sense, and nothing else in the PAC10 is particularly tantalizing. 

 

 

 

Unless any of those patents are for new ways to score touchdowns, I am not sure what any of if has to do with conference realignment.

[peanut]

4 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Note the second sentence of the official Big Ten announcement:

 

ROSEMONT, Ill. – The Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors (COP/C) voted unanimously today to admit the University of Oregon and the University of Washington to the Big Ten Conference effective August 2, 2024, with competition to begin in all sports for the 2024-25 academic year. With the schools’ admission, Oregon and Washington will also join the Big Ten Academic Alliance (BTAA), a consortium of world-class research institutions dedicated to advancing their academic missions.

 

Washington is a powerhouse research institution. By my calculations the current and future conference members had a total of over 1,300 patents granted by the United States last year. The data is from the top fifty schools on the list of institutions with the most patents granted. By comparison, the SEC had 139 patents granted.

During his lifetime, Thomas Edison (and his research park) received 1,093 US patents. The US granted 161 patents to Henry Ford. 

The University of ILLINOIS spent over a billion dollars on research every year since 2017. Not all of the patents are worth the digital ink used to store them, but every year since 2017, ILLINOIS has signed more than 100 options and license agreements. That's where the real money is. Now, the scientists, doctors and engineers at Big Ten schools can work with those at UCLA or Washington and share in the ah advancement of knowledge and the um betterment of the human condition. 

My speculation for the next schools to join the conference in order: Stanford, Cal, North Carolina, and Virgina. Clemson and Florida State make no sense, and nothing else in the PAC10 is particularly tantalizing.

I think conference realignment is about money, not research. And based on the money metric, my current best guesses as the biggest targets for the Big Ten and SEC are all ACC schools, or ACC affiliates:

• Notre Dame
• Clemson
• UNC
• Duke (basketball + market)
• Georgia Tech (market)
• FSU
• Miami

The biggest catch in the imploding Pac 12 appears to be Stanford, but I'm not sure the Big Ten wants them.

[Idaho]

I follow the Pac12 pretty closely. What I am hearing. and seeing are several possibilities: 

1. There is talk of a new Mountain West conference that includes the 4 Pac schools.  The conference would have 5 member schools with wrestling. Tack on Cal Poly and Bakersfield and you have a 7 team conference (8 if you include Little Rock and 9 if Tarleton is factored in as well). 

2. ACC - Either an expanded ACC or a new conference featuring ACC and PAC schools.  Obviously wrestling would create a decent member conference with this. 

3. An altogether new conference featuring the Pac 4 plus the top market WAC and MW teams .... like option 1 but including a couple top WAC schools.  This too would create a bigger wrestling conference than option 1 because it could include Cal Baptist and Utah Valley.

Whatever the case I think Bakersfield and Cal Poly tag along with wherever the remaining Pac schools go. I have to think Little Rock is already talking to conferences more regional to them. Of course, there could be yet another blindside or "what's behind door #1"moment in what I like to call, "As the PAC 12 Turns."

Edited August 5, 2023 by Idaho

[peanut]

I think we have to expect Oregon State to put wrestling on the chopping block.

And Stanford wrestling may again be on the chopping block (if it cannot get that sweet Big Ten invitation).

[Idaho]

15 minutes ago, peanut said:

I think we have to expect Oregon State to put wrestling on the chopping block.

And Stanford wrestling may again be on the chopping block (if it cannot get that sweet Big Ten invitation).

With a significant endowment, huge support for the program from the university, upward trajectory and local and regional support, I don't see this happening. 

[Jason Bryant]

Oregon State is at the minimum for NCAA men’s sports with 6. They have men’s rowing, but it’s not an NCAA Championship sport (women’s is). Unless the NCAA drops the minimum # of sports below its current threshold, it appears from a numbers position, Oregon State appears to be in a solid spot in terms of sport sponsorship.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Unless any of those patents are for new ways to score touchdowns, I am not sure what any of if has to do with conference realignment.

I disagree. 

First of all, the Big Ten will only accept AAU schools. There are research funding standards that have to be met to become an AAU school (among other standards). Thus, it is a huge part of conference realignment. I believe the ACC is almost as choosy. About AAU schools:

"Sixty-one percent of the total research funded [by] the U.S. government, or $25.6 billion annually, is performed by AAU faculty. Thirty-eight percent of all Nobel Prize winners are faculty members at AAU institutions." 

The media deals that the Big Ten signed are worth $1 billion annually. That is divided by a bunch of schools. Now, here's the game: Let's say a school gets almost a billion dollars in funding from the federal and state governments and various manufacturing companies. They put that money into research and innovation. Then, they get to option and license any lucrative new processes or patentable inventions. You want the best possible partners in this research to gain prestige and print money. 

Now, it is not all about research by a long shot. 

Administrators are going to not leave a dime on the ground when they can pick it up and pocket it. So, TV media markets, compelling sports teams and other intangibles like fan interest come into play. But don't forget that it is not Athletic Directors who are voting on conference realignment. It's Chancellors, Presidents and Deans. The stuffy business people. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

47 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

I disagree. 

First of all, the Big Ten will only accept AAU schools. There are research funding standards that have to be met to become an AAU school (among other standards). Thus, it is a huge part of conference realignment. I believe the ACC is almost as choosy. About AAU schools:

"Sixty-one percent of the total research funded [by] the U.S. government, or $25.6 billion annually, is performed by AAU faculty. Thirty-eight percent of all Nobel Prize winners are faculty members at AAU institutions." 

The media deals that the Big Ten signed are worth $1 billion annually. That is divided by a bunch of schools. Now, here's the game: Let's say a school gets almost a billion dollars in funding from the federal and state governments and various manufacturing companies. They put that money into research and innovation. Then, they get to option and license any lucrative new processes or patentable inventions. You want the best possible partners in this research to gain prestige and print money. 

Now, it is not all about research by a long shot. 

Administrators are going to not leave a dime on the ground when they can pick it up and pocket it. So, TV media markets, compelling sports teams and other intangibles like fan interest come into play. But don't forget that it is not Athletic Directors who are voting on conference realignment. It's Chancellors, Presidents and Deans. The stuffy business people. 

The problem with that is that Stanford is both an AAU school and almost the only winner of the Director's Cup awarded to the school with the most national champions (they have won it 26 times in the award's 29 year history). Yet, they are somehow, at best, the Big 10's 5th choice from the Pac 12. It's about football, and football only. But the university presidents are in Washington telling Congress NIL is the problem.

[Idaho]

46 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The problem with that is that Stanford is both an AAU school and almost the only winner of the Director's Cup awarded to the school with the most national champions (they have won it 26 times in the award's 29 year history). Yet, they are somehow, at best, the Big 10's 5th choice from the Pac 12. It's about football, and football only. But the university presidents are in Washington telling Congress NIL is the problem.

Which is why I wouldn't be opposed to the BCS creating their own thing outside of the NCAA for football only.... which has been a discussion. 

[TexRef]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:50 PM, CHROMEBIRD said:

Maybe they'll merge with the Western Athletic Conference and become the PACWAC. Adding UVU and Cal Baptist to the Pac might be good... maybe get GCU to restart wrestling!

I think it would more along the lines of WACKY PAC 

[AgaveMaria]

Wow, the Big 12 gets to add the Utards with all their baggage & cheezy Salt Lake City attractions.

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

12 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

 

My speculation for the next schools to join the conference in order: Stanford, Cal, North Carolina, and Virgina. Clemson and Florida State make no sense, and nothing else in the PAC10 is particularly tantalizing. 

 

 

 

Former ACC member Maryland joined the Big 10 a few years ago.   It's been a rough journey...  

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

10 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The problem with that is that Stanford is both an AAU school and almost the only winner of the Director's Cup awarded to the school with the most national champions (they have won it 26 times in the award's 29 year history). Yet, they are somehow, at best, the Big 10's 5th choice from the Pac 12. It's about football, and football only. But the university presidents are in Washington telling Congress NIL is the problem.

Right. Stanford is in the pool of possibilities. In fact, I think they'll be next to join the Big Ten along with Cal, another possibility. Of course, it could be Virginia and North Carolina, and it could be next week or two or five years from now. The key to all of the Big Ten realignment is whether schools are AAU members. All the schools in the Big Ten were AAU members when admitted to the conference, and all of those that have been invited have been AAU members. 

And to be an AAU member, the school has minimum research expenditure standards. 

I'm not knowledgeable about Pac10 football, but my impression is that Stanford is usually quite good and sometimes great. Washington, on the other hand, is usually good but never great. Yet, Washington is an AAU member and a research king. There could be a thousand other reasons why Stanford hasn't joined yet. 

So, the fact is that only AAU members have been asked to join the Big Ten. And, in the conference's grand announcement of Washington and Oregon, the second sentence mentioned research partnerships. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

28 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Right. Stanford is in the pool of possibilities. In fact, I think they'll be next to join the Big Ten along with Cal, another possibility. Of course, it could be Virginia and North Carolina, and it could be next week or two or five years from now. The key to all of the Big Ten realignment is whether schools are AAU members. All the schools in the Big Ten were AAU members when admitted to the conference, and all of those that have been invited have been AAU members. 

And to be an AAU member, the school has minimum research expenditure standards. 

I'm not knowledgeable about Pac10 football, but my impression is that Stanford is usually quite good and sometimes great. Washington, on the other hand, is usually good but never great. Yet, Washington is an AAU member and a research king. There could be a thousand other reasons why Stanford hasn't joined yet. 

So, the fact is that only AAU members have been asked to join the Big Ten. And, in the conference's grand announcement of Washington and Oregon, the second sentence mentioned research partnerships. 

I know I am cynical, but not even I thought they would say it was all about football in their press release.

[billyhoyle]

9 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Right. Stanford is in the pool of possibilities. In fact, I think they'll be next to join the Big Ten along with Cal, another possibility. Of course, it could be Virginia and North Carolina, and it could be next week or two or five years from now. The key to all of the Big Ten realignment is whether schools are AAU members. All the schools in the Big Ten were AAU members when admitted to the conference, and all of those that have been invited have been AAU members. 

And to be an AAU member, the school has minimum research expenditure standards. 

I'm not knowledgeable about Pac10 football, but my impression is that Stanford is usually quite good and sometimes great. Washington, on the other hand, is usually good but never great. Yet, Washington is an AAU member and a research king. There could be a thousand other reasons why Stanford hasn't joined yet. 

So, the fact is that only AAU members have been asked to join the Big Ten. And, in the conference's grand announcement of Washington and Oregon, the second sentence mentioned research partnerships. 

There is no chance cal and Stanford get added to the big ten. The fact that they get research grants has nothing to do with how much money their football team generates. Nobody goes to or watches Stanford or Cal games. College athletics are about money and nothing else.

I have no clue why they added that line about research partnerships. Maybe to make it seem like it isn’t just about money, which it is. 
 

[Idaho]

9 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

There is no chance cal and Stanford get added to the big ten. The fact that they get research grants has nothing to do with how much money their football team generates. Nobody goes to or watches Stanford or Cal games. College athletics are about money and nothing else.

I have no clue why they added that line about research partnerships. Maybe to make it seem like it isn’t just about money, which it is. 
 

Yes, they had a lot of seats left.... The capacity of Pac12 stadiums is very low in comparison to B10 or B12. The average attendance of B10 football games is approximately 4k-5k more than USC which had the highest avg attendance in the Pac 12. The average B10 attendance is 15k fans larger than every stadium in the Pac 12 except for USC and Washington.  Just some perspective. 

https://www.si.com/college/stanford/football/ranking-pac-12-teams-by-average-attendance-in-2022#gid=ci02b8bac4200125d6&pid=6-arizona-state

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

Why is fan attendance greater in the Big 10 than in the Pac 12?   Perhaps because the Big 10 tends to have university members that have somewhat cornered the major university markets in their particular states (such as Nebraska)?   In the Pac 12, there are so many universities (especially in California) that there's always something else to watch, if folks want. 

   Maybe there's not much else to do in the typical Big 10 member states, when compared to the outdoorsy Pac 12?   The Midwest is flatland.  There's nothing wrong with that; it's a remarkably impressive breadbasket.   But out west, folks have scenic views all over the place.   Sitting in a stadium has competition.   And many folks out there are transplants, who are less likely to get excited about college sports since family traditions aren't tugging them in the direction of attending sporting events quite as much.   

There does seem to be population density in key Pac 12 markets though.  I attended a Dodgers professional baseball game in Los Angeles and it was well attended.   

I don't doubt that I'm missing part of the picture here, though, so please don't worry that I'll be insulted or hurt if you correct me.  I'm seeking knowledge, not tolerance.      

[billyhoyle]

1 hour ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

Why is fan attendance greater in the Big 10 than in the Pac 12?   Perhaps because the Big 10 tends to have university members that have somewhat cornered the major university markets in their particular states (such as Nebraska)?   In the Pac 12, there are so many universities (especially in California) that there's always something else to watch, if folks want. 

   Maybe there's not much else to do in the typical Big 10 member states, when compared to the outdoorsy Pac 12?   The Midwest is flatland.  There's nothing wrong with that; it's a remarkably impressive breadbasket.   But out west, folks have scenic views all over the place.   Sitting in a stadium has competition.   And many folks out there are transplants, who are less likely to get excited about college sports since family traditions aren't tugging them in the direction of attending sporting events quite as much.   

There does seem to be population density in key Pac 12 markets though.  I attended a Dodgers professional baseball game in Los Angeles and it was well attended.   

I don't doubt that I'm missing part of the picture here, though, so please don't worry that I'll be insulted or hurt if you correct me.  I'm seeking knowledge, not tolerance.      

I think a big thing for Cal, Stanford, and Washington is that there’s professional football in the Bay Area and Seattle. So nobody cares about college football. There didn’t used to be in LA, but now that there is, I wonder how that impacts USC and UCLA.
 

[TexRef]

On 8/5/2023 at 4:28 PM, AgaveMaria said:

Wow, the Big 12 gets to add the Utards with all their baggage & cheezy Salt Lake City attractions.

Not sure if the Utah schools will be required to bring a few bottles of fry sauce to share with the host teams. 

[Idaho]

ACC and Pac 12 talking merger.  Would help ACC renegotiate their 20 year grant of rights agreement signed in 2016 in order for a better media deal. 
 

Another possibility in the soap opera 

[peanut]

6 hours ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

Why is fan attendance greater in the Big 10 than in the Pac 12?   Perhaps because the Big 10 tends to have university members that have somewhat cornered the major university markets in their particular states (such as Nebraska)?   In the Pac 12, there are so many universities (especially in California) that there's always something else to watch, if folks want. 

   Maybe there's not much else to do in the typical Big 10 member states, when compared to the outdoorsy Pac 12?   The Midwest is flatland.  There's nothing wrong with that; it's a remarkably impressive breadbasket.   But out west, folks have scenic views all over the place.   Sitting in a stadium has competition.   And many folks out there are transplants, who are less likely to get excited about college sports since family traditions aren't tugging them in the direction of attending sporting events quite as much.   

There does seem to be population density in key Pac 12 markets though.  I attended a Dodgers professional baseball game in Los Angeles and it was well attended.   

I don't doubt that I'm missing part of the picture here, though, so please don't worry that I'll be insulted or hurt if you correct me.  I'm seeking knowledge, not tolerance.      

Yes. On the west coast, people can go to the beach, the mountains, the desert, a big city, a national park, a boat ride, a big city, a concert, a club, etc. Or they can stay home and enjoy the weather — by skateboarding, rollerblading, playing basketball, swimming, etc.

However, in much of the midwest, your options are usually walking aimlessly around Walmart, going to church, or watching sports. 

[AgaveMaria]

Didn't the State of Washington Legislature pass a law that Univerity of Washington and Washington State both had to be together if a new conference deal was made? Anyone know for sure?

If so, what happens to this move?

[ionel]

1 hour ago, peanut said:

Yes. On the west coast, people can go to the beach, the mountains, the desert, a big city, a national park, a boat ride, a big city, a concert, a club, etc. Or they can stay home and enjoy the weather — by skateboarding, rollerblading, playing basketball, swimming, etc.

However, in much of the midwest, your options are usually walking aimlessly around Walmart, going to church, or watching sports. 

Not true, in Illinois you can stare out your picture window one year it'll be corn and the next year will be soybeans ... diversity man.  But sure, in Georgia it'll always  be peanuts. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by ionel