2024 President Candidate Discussion

[ionel]

20 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

@ionel I told ya they were a blast...

but you didn't say rapid fire blast ...

[Wrestleknownothing]

25 minutes ago, ionel said:

I don't know of any on the list that are military grade.  For example the AR-16 is military,  the AR-15 is not and is only slightly larger caliber than my grandfather's 1890s 22.  It is however more powerful and smoother operation making it a most excellent vermin rifle.  I don't have one but have shot one.  If needing to protect family, pets &/or livestock from vermin this is an excellent choice.  Have you ever seen the damage a porcupine can do to livestock or working dog or a skunk or rabid coyote?

The U.S. Army Special Operations History disagrees with you:

"The AR-15 rifle, later adopted in modified form as the M-16, fully replaced the M-14 by 1969."

https://arsof-history.org/articles/19_aug_form_follows_function_page_1.html

[Gus]

6 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The U.S. Army Special Operations History disagrees with you:

"The AR-15 rifle, later adopted in modified form as the M-16, fully replaced the M-14 by 1969."

https://arsof-history.org/articles/19_aug_form_follows_function_page_1.html

An AR-15 is just a .223 dressed up. Its a smaller caliber deer rifle. 

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The U.S. Army Special Operations History disagrees with you:

"The AR-15 rifle, later adopted in modified form as the M-16, fully replaced the M-14 by 1969."

https://arsof-history.org/articles/19_aug_form_follows_function_page_1.html

Yes the M-16 is military not the AR-15.

It was based on the 15, the AR-15 did come first.  

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Gus said:

An AR-15 is just a .223 dressed up. Its a smaller caliber deer rifle. 

I'm not sure it is a legal deer rifle in many states, believe .243 may be the min but should prob use .270 or higher.

[Plasmodium]

Interesting these vermin pea shooters show up on Christmas cards, t-shirts and congressional lapel pins.  Somehow they wound up on a MAGA sponsored congressional bill to make them the "National Gun of the United States"

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

I'm not sure it is a legal deer rifle in many states, believe .243 may be the min but should prob use .270 or higher.

It’s legal here and will do the job just fine.  Of course, poachers regularly take deer with 22LR or 22 Mag, and there’s a fella whose family owns land in the New Mexico Apache reservation that takes all his elk with a 22-250.  For ARs and SKs they tend to regulate the magazine capacity more than the round.  But that’s just deer hunting and the 2nd Amendment ain’t about deer hunting. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Offthemat

[ionel]

25 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

It’s legal here and will do the job just fine.  Of course, poachers regularly take deer with 22LR or 22 Mag, and there’s a fella whose family owns land in the New Mexico Apache reservation that takes all his elk with a 22-250.  For ARs and SKs they tend to regulate the magazine capacity more than the round.  But that’s just deer hunting and the 2nd Amendment ain’t about deer hunting. 

And how many does he not take, just wound due to low caliber.  Think thats the reason for min in some states.  Sure I could go out with my grandfather's 22 and wound a lot of animals and never find them.  Also shouldn't need a large mag for deer.  If you don't hit the kill shot on the first the deer is likely gone.

Edited July 26, 2023 by ionel

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

And how many does he not take, just wound due to low caliber.  Think thats the reason for min in some states.  Sure I could go out with my grandfather's 22 and wound a lot of animals and never find them.  Also shouldn't need a large mag for deer.  If you don't hit the kill shot on the first the deer is likely gone.

None.  He’s a good shot.  He sells about six licenses to rich guys to hunt on his property.  He acts as their guide and finishes off some that are bad shots.  It’s where you hit them.  I read a hunting story that happened a hundred years or more ago and the guy dropped an elk with one shot from a 32-20.  The story teller remarked that some people at the time doubted the 30-30 was enough for deer.  On the other side, there’s a guy who says he won’t hunt elk with less than a 338mag, but he admits to wasting a little meat.  

[ionel]

15 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

None.  He’s a good shot.  He sells about six licenses to rich guys to hunt on his property.  He acts as their guide and finishes off some that are bad shots.  It’s where you hit them.  I read a hunting story that happened a hundred years or more ago and the guy dropped an elk with one shot from a 32-20.  The story teller remarked that some people at the time doubted the 30-30 was enough for deer.  On the other side, there’s a guy who says he won’t hunt elk with less than a 338mag, but he admits to wasting a little meat.  

I think my old no scope Colt with 22 shorts would be a problem, but sure if the deer is close enough for an accurate shot. --  

Edited July 26, 2023 by ionel

[headshuck]

Lol. Amazing Biden could keep a straight face.

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

I think my old no scope Colt with 22 shorts would be a problem, but sure if the deer is close enough for an accurate shot. --  

Ha!  I remember one time shooting a little 22auto pistol with shorts in it.  I could see the bullets flying through the air.  I would want more for deer.  I’ve pretty much settled on a nice 308. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

6 hours ago, Gus said:

An AR-15 is just a .223 dressed up. Its a smaller caliber deer rifle. 

Except that an "AR-15" is an "Assault Rifle." Thus the "AR" in the name... it's designed to kill people, not deer.

Any notion that an assault rifle is a small deer rifle is beyond silly.

It's like saying a small 6-cylinder engine is somehow slower than an 8-cylinder. Try telling that to Formula 1 racing.

[headshuck]

The AR in “AR-15” rifle stands for ArmaLite, after the company that developed it in the 1950s. “AR” does NOT stand for “assault rifle” or “automatic rifle.” AR-15 and other semi-automatic rifles are NOT “assault weapons” or “assault rifles.” An assault rifle is fully automatic — a machine gun.


https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/what-is-ar15-rifle-history-of-firearm/

[ionel]

17 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Except that an "AR-15" is an "Assault Rifle." Thus the "AR" in the name... it's designed to kill people, not deer.

Any notion that an assault rifle is a small deer rifle is beyond silly.

It's like saying a small 6-cylinder engine is somehow slower than an 8-cylinder. Try telling that to Formula 1 racing.

No ... its amazing how many (who don't know, most of us do) can't do a simple Google or wiki search:  ArmaLite Rifle  and its good for vermin - porcupines, coyotes, skunks, bobcats and such.  

Edited July 26, 2023 by ionel

[Wrestleknownothing]

19 minutes ago, ionel said:

No ... its amazing how many (who don't know, most of us do) can't do a simple Google or wiki search:  ArmaLite Rifle  and its good for vermin - porcupines, coyotes, skunks, bobcats and such.  

My point was that it is also good for mass shootings. It is the preferred weapon of the US mass shooter. My list was derived from the top 12 mass shootings in the United States.

The .223 AR-15 that several here thought would be ineffective against deer and moose proved highly effective against humans in the Las Vegas shooting where 12 of the rifles were found to have fired 1,049 of tje 1,058 rounds fired that day, contributing to 60 deaths.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

My point was that it is also good for mass shootings. It is the preferred weapon of the US mass shooter. My list was derived from the top 12 mass shootings in the United States.

And the Boeing 767 is an Assault Aircraft it is the preferred aircraft of mass terrorists.   AA not to be confused with American Airlines but ... yeah I guess you could say they are the preferred airline. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

And the Boeing 767 is an Assault Aircraft it is the preferred aircraft of mass terrorists.   AA not to be confused with American Airlines but ... yeah I guess you could say they are the preferred airline. 

A perfect example of a false equivalency. These rifles are designed to efficiently and effectively deliver death. We agree on that. You focus on vermin. I focus on humans.

[ionel]

13 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

A perfect example of a false equivalency. These rifles are designed to efficiently and effectively deliver death. We agree on that. You focus on vermin. I focus on humans.

We can agree to disagree on focus. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

7 minutes ago, ionel said:

We can agree to disagree on focus. 

Amen. I know we won't change each other's minds. I am glad we can respectfully state our positions.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

 

48 minutes ago, headshuck said:

The AR in “AR-15” rifle stands for ArmaLite, after the company that developed it in the 1950s. “AR” does NOT stand for “assault rifle” or “automatic rifle.” AR-15 and other semi-automatic rifles are NOT “assault weapons” or “assault rifles.” An assault rifle is fully automatic — a machine gun.

ArmaLite did claim the "AR" stood for "ArmaLite Rifle"... as you said, that was in the 50's.

But in 1959, they sold the design to Colt - which was developed into the M-16. Which was, without a doubt, a military assault rifle. Designed specifically to kill people.

A non-fully-auto version of the same rifle was later sold as an AR-15. Same weapon design, but with a non-military trigger design. Not sold as an "ArmaLite" - it was a no longer an ArmaLite. It became a generic term for a category of assault weapons... not deer rifles.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

7 hours ago, ionel said:

Yes the M-16 is military not the AR-15.

It was based on the 15, the AR-15 did come first.  

Not exactly. Colt produced the M-16 prior to the AR-15, after they purchased the design in the late 50's.

(And before the term AR-15 became a generic term.)

1 hour ago, ionel said:

No ... its amazing how many (who don't know, most of us do) can't do a simple Google or wiki search:  ArmaLite Rifle  and its good for vermin - porcupines, coyotes, skunks, bobcats and such.  

It is amazing.

[Gus]

7 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

 

ArmaLite did claim the "AR" stood for "ArmaLite Rifle"... as you said, that was in the 50's.

But in 1959, they sold the design to Colt - which was developed into the M-16. Which was, without a doubt, a military assault rifle. Designed specifically to kill people.

A non-fully-auto version of the same rifle was later sold as an AR-15. Same weapon design, but with a non-military trigger design. Not sold as an "ArmaLite" - it was a no longer an ArmaLite. It became a generic term for a category of assault weapons... not deer rifles.

 

7 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Not exactly. Colt produced the M-16 prior to the AR-15, after they purchased the design in the late 50's.

(And before the term AR-15 became a generic term.)

It is amazing.

So according to you the M-16 was developed both before and after the AR-15... whatever works better to fit your narrative, eh?

[Bigbrog]

Funny listening to people who don't know anything about guns try and talk about guns and just spew the crap they hear on tv...

[WrestlingRasta]

1 minute ago, Bigbrog said:

Funny listening to people who don't know anything about guns try and talk about guns and just spew the crap they hear on tv...

Isn’t that the most common thing going on social media? Each week thousands of experts on the newest topic.