2024 President Candidate Discussion

[BobDole]

Just now, Bigbrog said:

I'll give you an F for this post.  I have shot my guns probably hundreds of thousands of times and probably only killed something about 10 times.  But hey, let's not let that fact which is true for probably 99.99999% of those who own guns.  

Keep on keeping on with the political rhetoric.  

I'll give you an A for being cute.

Correlating guns to planes is quite a stretch, but keep trying. If you ain't trying then we know you have given up.

[ionel]

15 minutes ago, BobDole said:

A gun's purpose is to kill, nothing more nothing less.

A plane's purpose is to transport you from point A to point B fast.

Good try though, I'll give you a C- for the weak analogy.

A gun's purpose is to kill game and vermin.  A hammer's purpose is to hit nails.  You already stated the airplane.  Yet some folks have used all 3 for other purposes against the law resulting in murder charges.  I'll give you a B on the airplane statement but ...

Edited July 25, 2023 by ionel

[BobDole]

9 minutes ago, ionel said:

A gun's purpose is to kill game and vermin.  A hammer's purpose is to hit nails.  You already stated the airplane.  Yet some folks have used all 3 for other purposes against the law resulting in murder charges.  I'll give you a B on the airplane statement but ...

Awe you're just as cute, just not as cute as @Bigbrog so you get a B+.

So before we can go on please list all objects utilized for killing of vermin or human so that we can all analyze the different "cultures" you are so fascinated about.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

22 minutes ago, ionel said:

A gun's purpose is to kill game and vermin.  A hammer's purpose is to hit nails.  You already stated the airplane.  Yet some folks have used all 3 for other purposes against the law resulting in murder charges.  I'll give you a B on the airplane statement but ...

Almost all early recorded uses of guns are military. For example...

The first recorded use of gunpowder weapons in Europe was in 1331 when two mounted German knights attacked Cividale del Friuli with gunpowder weapons of some sort.

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Almost all early recorded uses of guns are military. For example...

The first recorded use of gunpowder weapons in Europe was in 1331 when two mounted German knights attacked Cividale del Friuli with gunpowder weapons of some sort.

Most aircraft manufactured for WWI & II etc were for killing people, look at percent of total numbers.  Why did we beat the Brits, cause we had a lot of settlers with guns who were good at shooting game and vermin.  Watch Braveheart ... Wallace and friends had a bunch of hammers etc.

BTW: don't forget the first ... Cain killed Able.

Also, I want to thank my good internet buddy @MPhillips for telling me about this "fun" Other Stuff section of this here board. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by ionel

[ionel]

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Edited July 25, 2023 by ionel

[WrestlingRasta]

He knew exactly what he was doing with the song, and he hit a home run. Tip your hat. As for the persona in the song…the lyrics don’t really match his actions, but again, he hit a home run. 
 

Politics aside and strictly from the side of music….I’m from a small town (11k), I like John Cougar’s expression much better. 

[BobDole]

9 minutes ago, ionel said:

Most aircraft manufactured for WWI & II etc were for killing people, look at percent of total numbers.  Why did we beat the Brits, cause we had a lot of settlers with guns who were good at shooting game and vermin.  Watch Braveheart ... Wallace and friends had a bunch of hammers etc.

BTW: don't forget the first ... Cain killed Able.

Also, I want to thank my good internet buddy @MPhillips for telling me about this "fun" Other Stuff section of this here board. 

Are you reading from the classic strawman argument book today?

Equating a gun culture to the aircraft culture is quite a stretch, but maybe you're onto something. We need to ban airplanes and go back to horse drawn wagons.

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Are you reading from the classic strawman argument book today?

Equating a gun culture to the aircraft culture is quite a stretch, but maybe you're onto something. We need to ban airplanes and go back to horse drawn wagons.

If we follow Wkn's statement regarding first guns and gunpowder, the first jet aircraft WWII was build to kill people.  Thus yes we should ban all commercial jet aircraft.  But we should be allowed to keep our prop airplanes because like Orville & Wilbur most aircraft owner & pilots just want to fly and get there faster.

[Bigbrog]

There is the word again..."ban".  SMH  IF the fundamentals of how our country and culture were formed and developed is centered around freedom and the tenets of our constitution (including gun ownership!!), how in the heck do people think banning guns is the answer???  It is such a weak and simplistic look into trying to solve one of the most complicated things we face.  I as a gun owner and a strong believer in the 2nd amendment and the constitution for one second thought banning guns in the USA would stop un-necessary deaths and make our society stronger and safer I'd be the first one in line to turn in my guns.  However, it will NEVER happen...one, because it wouldn't make it stronger and safer but rather the complete opposite, and second, gun owners would never ever turn in their guns. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

26 minutes ago, ionel said:

Most aircraft manufactured for WWI & II etc were for killing people, look at percent of total numbers.  Why did we beat the Brits, cause we had a lot of settlers with guns who were good at shooting game and vermin.  Watch Braveheart ... Wallace and friends had a bunch of hammers etc.

BTW: don't forget the first ... Cain killed Able.

Also, I want to thank my good internet buddy @MPhillips for telling me about this "fun" Other Stuff section of this here board. 

That is not the reason at all. A combination of superior tactics (guerilla warfare), superior motivation (defending a home), and a massive amount of naval support from the French had a lot more to do with victory than game or vermin shooting. 

To be clear, I am not against guns or gun ownership. However, the idea that guns that are used for hunting and sport are grouped with military grade weapons and should be protected equally is where the NRA loses me.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

That is not the reason at all. A combination of superior tactics (guerilla warfare), superior motivation (defending a home), and a massive amount of naval support from the French had a lot more to do with victory than game or vermin shooting. 

To be clear, I am not against guns or gun ownership. However, the idea that guns that are used for hunting and sport are grouped with military grade weapons and should be protected equally is where the NRA loses me.

I would not agree with that either and there is much about the NRA I disagree with, they go way to far in shooting down many reasonable changes.

I do wonder though, what are the "military grade weapons" you speak of?

[Plasmodium]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

I would not agree with that either and there is much about the NRA I disagree with, they go way to far in shooting down many reasonable changes.

I do wonder though, what are the "military grade weapons" you speak of?

Not to speak for WKN, but assault weapons most definitely fit that bill.

[Bigbrog]

I also wonder what "military grade weapons" are that he is mentioning??  

[Bigbrog]

Just now, Plasmodium said:

Not to speak for WKN, but assault weapons most definitely fit that bill.

Here we go again...what are "assault weapons"??  What do YOU think they are??

[ionel]

Just now, Plasmodium said:

Not to speak for WKN, but assault weapons most definitely fit that bill.

What assault weapons?  You can't buy a full automatic AK47 in the US.

[BobDole]

16 minutes ago, ionel said:

If we follow Wkn's statement regarding first guns and gunpowder, the first jet aircraft WWII was build to kill people.  Thus yes we should ban all commercial jet aircraft.  But we should be allowed to keep our prop airplanes because like Orville & Wilbur most aircraft owner & pilots just want to fly and get there faster.

Keep trying to make it work, you aren't going to stop so I can't wait until your next statement.

[BobDole]

15 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

There is the word again..."ban".  SMH  IF the fundamentals of how our country and culture were formed and developed is centered around freedom and the tenets of our constitution (including gun ownership!!), how in the heck do people think banning guns is the answer???  It is such a weak and simplistic look into trying to solve one of the most complicated things we face.  I as a gun owner and a strong believer in the 2nd amendment and the constitution for one second thought banning guns in the USA would stop un-necessary deaths and make our society stronger and safer I'd be the first one in line to turn in my guns.  However, it will NEVER happen...one, because it wouldn't make it stronger and safer but rather the complete opposite, and second, gun owners would never ever turn in their guns. 

We are talking about banning planes, no planes were mentioned in the constitution so we can ban them. 

[Plasmodium]

6 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Here we go again...what are "assault weapons"??  What do YOU think they are??

I'll accept the definition in the dictionary.  If that isn't detailed enough, let's go with the definition from the federal assault weapons ban in the 90s.

[WrestlingRasta]

How about we take the talk of bans off the table for a minute and bring in idea of checks, wait times. What is a reasonable wait time to allow for thorough checks for weapons purchases?  And I keep in mind the wait times that are out there for those who volunteer there time, and so on…

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, BobDole said:

We are talking about banning planes, no planes were mentioned in the constitution so we can ban them. 

I agree with Bob on this point.

[MPhillips]

@ionel I told ya they were a blast...

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

I would not agree with that either and there is much about the NRA I disagree with, they go way to far in shooting down many reasonable changes.

I do wonder though, what are the "military grade weapons" you speak of?

Partial list:

.223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle
.308-caliber AR-10-type rifle
Smith & Wesson M&P15 semiautomatic rifle
Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle
ArmaLite AR-15 rifle
SIG Sauer MCX[9] semi-automatic rifle
Ruger AR-556 semi-automatic rifle
WASR-10 rifle
9mm Uzi carbine

[headshuck]

.

Been there many times in this forum.

[ionel]

18 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Partial list:

.223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle
.308-caliber AR-10-type rifle
Smith & Wesson M&P15 semiautomatic rifle
Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle
ArmaLite AR-15 rifle
SIG Sauer MCX[9] semi-automatic rifle
Ruger AR-556 semi-automatic rifle
WASR-10 rifle
9mm Uzi carbine

I don't know of any on the list that are military grade.  For example the AR-16 is military,  the AR-15 is not and is only slightly larger caliber than my grandfather's 1890s 22.  It is however more powerful and smoother operation making it a most excellent vermin rifle.  I don't have one but have shot one.  If needing to protect family, pets &/or livestock from vermin this is an excellent choice.  Have you ever seen the damage a porcupine can do to livestock or working dog or a skunk or rabid coyote?

Edited July 25, 2023 by ionel