Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said: I understand Cael's current position is that any participant should treat it like any other competition by assuming it will be considered by Coaches in their rankings. I don't think coaches (even Cael) are in a real strong position to pull athletes, because NIL is in play for NWCA All Star match participants (Flo has the broadcast rights). The Hall situation clearly happened before NIL. I would imagine that you would have to reevaluate as the circumstances changed. However, initially (pre-NIL) I would have been very reluctant to attend that event based on the Hall situation. Also, the assumption that the All-Star is considered in rankings is a good one, until your athlete pulls a big upset and it isn't considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98lberEating2Lunches Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: The Hall situation clearly happened before NIL. I would imagine that you would have to reevaluate as the circumstances changed. However, initially (pre-NIL) I would have been very reluctant to attend that event based on the Hall situation. Also, the assumption that the All-Star is considered in rankings is a good one, until your athlete pulls a big upset and it isn't considered. Understood. We can only live in the moment with some expectation to act after considering the best available information. Edited November 17, 2022 by 98lberEating2Lunches 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98lberEating2Lunches Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ionel said: What place did he finish and who/what seed did he lose to? I responded to a request for clarification. For all I know, Cael knows the Coaches' ranking considered the all star result, because he, himself, considered it, and proposed seeding Mark Hall #2. I am certain that I didn't assert the seeding as being incorrect. Edited November 17, 2022 by 98lberEating2Lunches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said: I responded to a request for clarification. For all I know, Cael knows the Coaches' ranking considered the all star result, because he, himself, considered it, and proposed seeding Mark Hall #2. I am certain that I didn't assert the seeding as being incorrect. No I'm just asking if being seeded #2 had any affect on the outcome? Its possible to understand a "policy" that says the AllStar doesn't count but yet understand why some coaches may consider such a result in their seed vote. Where the athlete finished the year before is also not supposed to be considered. Its also certainly understandable why a coach might consider a singlet grab penalty point win in a double OT match to not be too much more valuable than the opposing wrestler's loss, yet there's no specific "policy" on how they should weight such in their own mind. All said, maybe the AllStar is to blame for the New Age of Ducking. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, ionel said: No I'm just asking if being seeded #2 had any affect on the outcome? Its possible to understand a "policy" that says the AllStar doesn't count but yet understand why some coaches may consider such a result in their seed vote. Where the athlete finished the year before is also not supposed to be considered. Its also certainly understandable why a coach might consider a singlet grab penalty point win in a double OT match to not be too much more valuable than the opposing wrestler's loss, yet there's no specific "policy" on how they should weight such in their own mind. All said, maybe the AllStar is to blame for the New Age of Ducking. Speaking of which, who was it that proposed a ducking index on the old board? Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Speaking of which, who was it that proposed a ducking index on the old board? 1 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveira Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Wasn’t hall almost majored in the finals that year….. against the same opponent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98lberEating2Lunches Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 hour ago, ionel said: No I'm just asking if being seeded #2 had any affect on the outcome? Funny, it sure looked like you asked "What place did he finish and who/what seed did he lose to?" as a troll who already knows the answers might ask. To answer your clarified question, I would hope being seeded number #2 would not have an effect to one who loses to the #1 seed. But I suppose if we want to engage the hypothetical: 1) It could be the #2 vs #3 match was tougher than the #1 vs #4 match might've otherwise been for Mark Hall. 2) It could be if the eventual champ and #1 seed had been seeded #2, that stylistic match-up closer to weigh-ins against the #3 seed might've prevented him from making the finals. After all, he had lost to Mark Hall in the semifinals the prior year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said: Funny, it sure looked like you asked "What place did he finish and who/what seed did he lose to?" as a troll who already knows the answers might ask. To answer your clarified question, I would hope being seeded number #2 would not have an effect to one who loses to the #1 seed. But I suppose if we want to engage the hypothetical: 1) It could be the #2 vs #3 match was tougher than the #1 vs #4 match might've otherwise been for Mark Hall. 2) It could be if the eventual champ and #1 seed had been seeded #2, that stylistic match-up closer to weigh-ins against the #3 seed might've prevented him from making the finals. After all, he had lost to Mark Hall in the semifinals the prior year. Ok, what year, ill look it up? Edited November 17, 2022 by ionel . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said: Funny, it sure looked like you asked "What place did he finish and who/what seed did he lose to?" as a troll who already knows the answers might ask. To answer your clarified question, I would hope being seeded number #2 would not have an effect to one who loses to the #1 seed. But I suppose if we want to engage the hypothetical: 1) It could be the #2 vs #3 match was tougher than the #1 vs #4 match might've otherwise been for Mark Hall. 2) It could be if the eventual champ and #1 seed had been seeded #2, that stylistic match-up closer to weigh-ins against the #3 seed might've prevented him from making the finals. After all, he had lost to Mark Hall in the semifinals the prior year. Did it ever occur that not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll? 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98lberEating2Lunches Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 2 hours ago, ionel said: Ok, what year, ill look it up? Already stated in original clarification. Try to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98lberEating2Lunches Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Did it ever occur that not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll? Yes. But no position were stated to agree or disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 17 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said: Already stated in original clarification. Try to keep up. Ok looked it up and it appears in hindsight maybe they seeded correctly, certainly the #2 didn't hurt Hall. If I'm reading this correctly they both came in undefeated with similar bonus records. So how do you pick the #1 vs #2, coin flip, the taller wrestler, maybe some on the committee just though V looked better end of year, maybe they got the #3 & #4 wrong which then effectively gave Hall the #1 path? If you just go with the coin flip option then its 50/50. Given how Cael wrestled and coached and the success he has had in the finals, I highly doubt he was concerned about a #2 seed. ;_; . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98lberEating2Lunches Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 26 minutes ago, ionel said: maybe they seeded correctly Agreed. I already stated as much. I only answered the hypothetical how it could possibly have affected the outcome. Your answer includes another hypothetical that the #3 and #4 seeding could be wrong after stating it appears they got the #1 and #2 right. An interesting, albeit incongruent take, in my opinion, given #4 was 28-6 and lost to the #5 in the quarters, and finished 6th. Meanwhile the #3 was 33-2, made the semis, and finished 4th. Given the #5, who faced the #1 in the semis and finished 3rd, later wrestled 197 and 184 at NCAAs in his career, perhaps his weight management challenges were on the same order as the #1's in the semis. And perhaps the #3s were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Did it ever occur that not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll? Has Dan lost weight? 1 3 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 10 hours ago, ionel said: You may be correct but I'd say OSU has been up there maybe surpassed them last half dozen years, they had 3 starters injured last half of last season. I think OSU's are less to do with tough wrestling as they are tough cuts. 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 I think OSU's are less to do with tough wrestling as they are tough cuts.Pretty strong correlation between weight cutting and injury.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pish Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 21 hours ago, ionel said: If I'm reading this correctly they both came in undefeated with similar bonus records. So how do you pick the #1 vs #2, Pretty simple..you go with the defending champ. No if’s and’s or but’s. im shocked Cael is letting these guys go after the Hall debacle. That being said, personally I love it, compete against the best and lay it on the line. At least the Hall thing set precedence and now we know these matches will count in coaches ranking. I just wish the coaches would also ding other coaches for ducking (see Schultz with headgear on last year, and Jones sending him back to locker room against Kerk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Pish said: Pretty simple..you go with the defending champ. No if’s and’s or but’s. Pretty certain seeding criteria says not to consider previous year but if you want to guess again ... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pish Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ionel said: Pretty certain seeding criteria says not to consider previous year but if you want to guess again ... It’s called common sense..Hall would have been #1 coaches rank until he lost to Zahid in all-star match (which we were told wouldn’t count) Why do you think Hall would have started #1 in coaches rank? I’ll give you a hint since you’re being obtuse..”previous years performance” Edited November 18, 2022 by Pish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Wrestling Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 On 11/18/2022 at 4:46 PM, Pish said: It’s called common sense..Hall would have been #1 coaches rank until he lost to Zahid in all-star match (which we were told wouldn’t count) Why do you think Hall would have started #1 in coaches rank? I’ll give you a hint since you’re being obtuse..”previous years performance” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pish Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hurricane Wrestling said: Way to bring up a two week old thread you dumb fk. What did I say in my post that wasn’t true? Love the dumb fks that add nothing except playing with YouTube and Gifs. Tell me what I said isn’t true or go play with yourself on YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 11 hours ago, Pish said: Way to bring up a two week old thread you dumb fk. What did I say in my post that wasn’t true? Love the dumb fks that add nothing except playing with YouTube and Gifs. Tell me what I said isn’t true or go play with yourself on YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Burke Glenbard South, Illinois Class of 2025 Committed to Southwest MN State Projected Weight: 174, 184
Michael Esteban Marist, Illinois Class of 2025 Committed to Michigan State Projected Weight: 133, 141
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