The next step in Cael's plan to destroy college wrestling

[AKHUNTER]

13 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

your statements seem a bit contradictory.

are you saying psu does the best job at assessing and recruiting the right guys or are you saying that they just buy them?

even prior to the portal+NIL era, the narrative was (largely from the iowa fan base) that psu won because they got the best recruits.

and, to me, i frankly don't care. you'd have a difficult time convincing me that any other staff would have had their batting average with those same recruits. and you'd have zero chance convincing me that anyone else would have matched their level of dominance - which has been historic - with those same guys. 

horse poop

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, Theo Brixton said:

I didn't mean that as an insult to Willie but it came across harsher than intended. I am sure most people here, myself included, would love to have a beer with @Husker_Du. But you are out your mind if you don't think Cael is picking his brain. That's a compliment of the highest order.

Not sure I would completely agree with this. If wrestling is to be compared to academics, it's more like an art class than quantum mechanics. Everyone can sit at an easel and paint a bowl of fruit. The skilled teacher can critique and advise the 5 year old and the advanced student differently as he passes by so that it is productive for both. Even Askren has openly stated his surprise at the lack of development of some of PSU's lesser wrestlers. It speaks to importance of picking the right guys from the beginning. It also raises the question of what actually happens in a PSU practice. 

As an aside, I can't wait for Cael to have beef with Askren when Ben blabs some PSU gossip he hears from his AWA guys on FRL.

LOL...as enjoyable as I'd find a Cael-Askren feud, I don't see Cael responding.

Maybe a Starocci or someone speaking for Cael, but that staff is too "turn the other cheek" for something good like that. 

[MPhillips]

6 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

but that staff is too "turn the other cheek"

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Why whine about someone who has a successful program?

Cael is doing Gable type of winning.

More power to him for his success. Hope he keeps it up.

Now if only the Campbell Fighting Camels can get a National Champ or two all will be right with the world.

I don't think the original post was actually..."whining," I think it was more joking. PSU is building a team, that at least based on recruiting looks like it could put out a 2nd lineup that would win a team trophy.

-Cael IS doing Gable type of winning. I don't think that was great for the sport either...so I DON'T hope he keeps it up. It is objectively bad for a sport when there is ONE team that dominates to THIS extent. That's not Penn State's fault. That's exactly what every team wants to do. But as a fan of the sport as a whole, knowing Penn State is going to win the 2024 NC by 50 points at least...it's not great. Wrestling is different in that at least each school can have it's individual athletes it can root for even if their team is just battling for 2nd.

[Theo Brixton]

5 hours ago, scourge165 said:

LOL...as enjoyable as I'd find a Cael-Askren feud, I don't see Cael responding.

Maybe a Starocci or someone speaking for Cael, but that staff is too "turn the other cheek" for something good like that. 

A beef from Cael's end would be similar to his interactions with Flo. But if AWA keeps pumping out studs, Cael will keep it cordial regardless of Askren's jack-assery.

[SocraTease]

The next step for Cael? 

1.  Propose new tag team NCAA wrestling rule (allowing backups to switch into an ongoing match when a wrestler is winning by more than 10 points ... thereby resting starters for the National Championship)

2. Start Inter-gender and inter-generational wrestling league (to show gratitude to others—women, parents, non-binaries, fans, children)

3. Commence eugenic program to breed future NCAA and World Champions and keep dynasty and hegemony going smoothly into the 22nd century (collect sperm and eggs from past and present champs)

4. Train autonomous robots with advanced wrestling AI  (to be used as training partners in the room and eventually replace expensive recruits)

The next step for other schools?

1. Recruit wrestlers from Dagestan (especially those who have lost or misplaced their birth certificates)

2. Leak fake news about skeletons in Cael's closet (or basement).  Ask Gym Jordan to conduct a congressional investigation into the PSU program

3. Initiate balloon spy-ware research to discover "the secret sauce".  Surreptitiously replace the secret sauce at Penn State with high calorie, low nutrition food 

4. Get religious quick and pray hard

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, SocraTease said:

The next step for Cael? 

1.  Propose new tag team NCAA wrestling rule (allowing backups to switch into an ongoing match when a wrestler is winning by more than 10 points ... thereby resting starters for the National Championship)

2. Start Inter-gender and inter-generational wrestling league (to show gratitude to others—women, parents, non-binaries, fans, children)

3. Commence eugenic program to breed future NCAA and World Champions and keep dynasty and hegemony going smoothly into the 22nd century (collect sperm and eggs from past and present champs)

4. Train autonomous robots with advanced wrestling AI  (to be used as training partners in the room and eventually replace expensive recruits)

 

ahh ... you forgot the dodgeball initiative.  

Edited April 23, 2023 by ionel

[Theo Brixton]

4 minutes ago, SocraTease said:

3. Commence eugenic program to breed future NCAA and World Champions and keep dynasty and hegemony going smoothly into the 22nd century (collect sperm and eggs from past and present champs)

Given all the wrestlers named Cael, I am certain Sanderson could find many willing recipients for his stud services. Set up booths at Tulsa, Fargo and Super32 and Russia will be an afterthought in a generation.

[RYou]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:14 AM, BlacknGold said:

With new transfer rules there will be multiple juggernauts. We saw it happen to Alabama football recently. First PSU will get everyone they want, then elite wrestlers will transfer to other big programs in response. Who it really hurts is the mid tier programs trying to stay afloat. They can lose some of their best guys any given offseason, and we will continue to see that happen with these portal rules and nil money involved. It will hard for programs with less talent and less money to keep their best guys, sadly

Sanderson is calculated in his recruiting.  He's very selective and targets specific weight classes. It's rare that he has 2 top tier guys at a single weight.  If you sign with him that weight class is held for you in his rolling 5 year plan.  Howard is his guy, that's why you haven't seen a newcomer onboard. Try to shift that plan like Suriano did and it creates waves.  It's a rare day that you'll see a Dean / Beard situation at PSU.  Dean wanted out of Cornell and Sanderson couldn't say no.

[Theo Brixton]

On 4/23/2023 at 3:41 AM, VakAttack said:

Can confirm, Willie is a good beer drinking companion.

This sounds like bragging.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:12 AM, scourge165 said:

 

Messenbrink said he didn't care about the money, he wanted to go to the place that would give him the best chance to reach his goals.

He's gonna be working out with Levi Haines, Mark Hall, Vincenzo Joseph(he still there)...Facundo who...remember like 6 months ago was arguably the best of the 3 Freshmen and was in the deepest, toughest weight?

 

Hall is in Philly at Penn RTC.  Cenzo in Arizona with Sunkist.

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Hall is in Philly at Penn RTC.  Cenzo in Arizona with Sunkist.

AI  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[JeanGuy]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:44 PM, scourge165 said:

I don't think the original post was actually..."whining," I think it was more joking. PSU is building a team, that at least based on recruiting looks like it could put out a 2nd lineup that would win a team trophy.

-Cael IS doing Gable type of winning. I don't think that was great for the sport either...so I DON'T hope he keeps it up. It is objectively bad for a sport when there is ONE team that dominates to THIS extent. That's not Penn State's fault. That's exactly what every team wants to do. But as a fan of the sport as a whole, knowing Penn State is going to win the 2024 NC by 50 points at least...it's not great. Wrestling is different in that at least each school can have it's individual athletes it can root for even if their team is just battling for 2nd.

See I think dynasties in general are good for sports. It gets viewers to tune in to see if Tiger can do it again and it also gets the people to tune in that want to see him lose just as much.

It was like watching Spencer Lee this year, half wanted him to be a four timer and half wanted someone to get him.

Wrestling will always be a niche sport but I think this can activate the fans the most.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, JeanGuy said:

See I think dynasties in general are good for sports. It gets viewers to tune in to see if Tiger can do it again and it also gets the people to tune in that want to see him lose just as much.

It was like watching Spencer Lee this year, half wanted him to be a four timer and half wanted someone to get him.

Wrestling will always be a niche sport but I think this can activate the fans the most.

I have nothing to support this, but I have a feeling that there is a cycle to this. For a niche sport dynasties create interest. The casual sports fan might take note of the fact that Dan Gable's Iowa has won 14 titles and is going for 15 (that was my personal experience). But in order for a sport to transition from niche to popular it has to have a feeling of hope for all fans. The NFL is the ultimate first to last league. It seemingly happens every year. But similar things are true for the MLB, and NBA.

Now where the transition needs to occur, or what the necessary conditions are to move from niche to popular, I have no idea. But at some point the NFL reached a tipping point. They changed their rules to promote parity and things really took off. I have a nagging suspicion that if they had changed their rules too soon it would have hurt their growth. 

Wrestling will never achieve the status of these other sports. So I feel like a dynasty is good. Either that or I am just talking up my own book. Take your pick.

[scourge165]

17 hours ago, JeanGuy said:

See I think dynasties in general are good for sports. It gets viewers to tune in to see if Tiger can do it again and it also gets the people to tune in that want to see him lose just as much.

It was like watching Spencer Lee this year, half wanted him to be a four timer and half wanted someone to get him.

Wrestling will always be a niche sport but I think this can activate the fans the most.

But that's individuals. That's where I've said at least Wrestling has that going for it, but how many people are tuning in to watch a match or a game that's pretty much already decided before it's over with? 

It's generally only in niche sports you have this type of dominance.

With Tiger, as dominant as he was, he wasn't winning like PSU is winning in Wrestling(it's a difficult analogy)...but in your examples there is suspense. There's no suspense when it comes to the team race.

 

This isn't a huge concern of mine, I just simply think it'd be better if Messenbrink went to Mizzou or...actually, if Nagao and Messenbrink went to Iowa. How fun would it be to see Iowa compete with PSU and Messenbrink and Haines battling it out? Plus, Iowa has that recruiting class coming in. Maybe Truax also goes there. Or they go to OSU. I don't care...but it's telling that you'd probably need the teams that had the best recruiting classes to add 3 NC contenders to make it interesting with PSU. But instead, PSU got at least two of them and from what it sounds like, they'll get the 3rd.

I'm gonna be there next year. We're all gonna be here on the forums, but I even hear people on here who love College Wrestling talking about how they DVR the Championships and watch them later on FF. So I imagine they're not watching the Rd of 12 or the medal matches, those pivotal matches that WERE deciding the team champs before Cael went and built the dynasty at PSU.

 

AGAIN, not saying PSU is "ruining" Wrestling or doing anything I wouldn't want the team I root for to do. They're doing what everyone should...it's just a better product IMO when a match in the Rd of 16 can end up swinging the team Title or a match in the Finals would be even better. We're not looking at that for the next 3-4 years(conservatively speaking).

[scourge165]

On 4/23/2023 at 6:36 AM, RYou said:

Sanderson is calculated in his recruiting.  He's very selective and targets specific weight classes. It's rare that he has 2 top tier guys at a single weight.  If you sign with him that weight class is held for you in his rolling 5 year plan.  Howard is his guy, that's why you haven't seen a newcomer onboard. Try to shift that plan like Suriano did and it creates waves.  It's a rare day that you'll see a Dean / Beard situation at PSU.  Dean wanted out of Cornell and Sanderson couldn't say no.

My man...you need to take a look at the roster and recruits coming into State College the next couple years. They've literally got Messenbrink and Haines. You've got Barr, Ryder, Connor and Cole Mirasola, Joe Sealey and Facundo.

They may have been on a 5 years cycle with their previous super trios and then studs surrounding them, but I'm not even sure if he's really recruiting them at this point, or if there is just a line of World Medalists lined up outside his office waiting to get in. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak, Van Ness and again, I suspect you'll have 4 more people related to Gibson joining him.

You had Nevills, an AA caliber Wrestler with Kerkvliet. His brother also got beat out by a NC...though that wasn't due to recruiting so much...entirely. They had 2 top ~8 guys at 197, so Cassar went up to HWT and knocked Nick out of the lineup. 

I could go on with Mansville and Joseph or so many others moving forward yet, but he's recruiting multiple studs at every weight and he's doing it...very simply...because he can. And if you can, why wouldn't you?

[scourge165]

18 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Hall is in Philly at Penn RTC.  Cenzo in Arizona with Sunkist.

I feel like the point still stands. He's going to thee powerhouse RTC right now.

He's going to have several guys to work out with. Both in the room during the regular season practices, or with the RTC.

But thanks, I haven't paid attention that closely to everyone. I assumed Hall would still be there. Find it a bit strange he's not, but so be it. Guys have other things going on in their lives that take them to other parts of the Country. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I feel like the point still stands. He's going to thee powerhouse RTC right now.

He's going to have several guys to work out with. Both in the room during the regular season practices, or with the RTC.

But thanks, I haven't paid attention that closely to everyone. I assumed Hall would still be there. Find it a bit strange he's not, but so be it. Guys have other things going on in their lives that take them to other parts of the Country. 

He still has Haines, Starocci, Nolf, Dake all around his weight.  I assume that Gomez is still there.  Maybe Bekzod?  Others?

[AgaveMaria]

Penn State may have the Team Title but tied with Cornell with TWO champions each.

Team Title is not a lock no matter how good any one team is.

Injury and illness come into play.

Then we have those "sure thing" champs run into a Vito Arujau... No one seemed to see that one coming.

Penn State is the big dog. Cael & Staff are doing a great job with their wrestlers.

They are the favorites to win but nothing is guaranteed when opponents step on the mat.