Wrestling/football - Football/wrestling

[Wrestleknownothing]

I have seen the discussions here and on other boards about guys like Iowa's Ben Kueter and Koy Hopke possibly doing both.

How often does this actually happen at the D1 level? And with what degree of success?

I am aware of situations like Stephen Neal and Carlton Haselrig who did not play football in college, but went on to all-pro careers in the NFL. I am unaware of any who did both in college though. 

Is it more common in D2, D3, NAIA?

Finally, what is the lowest weight this has happened at?

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I have seen the discussions here and on other boards about guys like Iowa's Ben Kueter and Koy Hopke possibly doing both.

How often does this actually happen at the D1 level? And with what degree of success?

I am aware of situations like Stephen Neal and Carlton Haselrig who did not play football in college, but went on to all-pro careers in the NFL. I am unaware of any who did both in college though. 

Is it more common in D2, D3, NAIA?

Finally, what is the lowest weight this has happened at?

John Wise played football Western Illinois, missed wrestling so became Illinois hwt and AA'd.  I remember him saying after coming back to wrestling how much harder wrestling was than football.  Believe he is to be inducted into Illinois Wrestling HOF on Sunday.

 https://www.patriots.com/news/returning-to-gridiron-wrestler-made-wise-decision-145771

[Warm Up Champ]

Josh Hokit Fresno State.  All American wrestler and went on to the 49ers for a short stint as an undrafted free agent/practice squad guy.

[Fudge Tunnel]

Lorenzo Neal (Fresno St) was a 2x NCAA qualifier and AA in '92 @ HWT (5'11" and JACKED).  Played 16 or so seasons in the NFL, and was a multiple time Pro Bowler

[ionel]

Pretty sure Steve Mocco participated football fall semester after final year wrestling, don't know that he played in a game.

Malcolm Rodriguez (Detroit Lions) and Brock Martin were both state champs in high school, played football together at OSU.  Think it was ~two years ago when hwt somewhat in question they both worked out in the room, some speculation one of them might get a dual appearance but didn't happen.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

19 minutes ago, ionel said:

Pretty sure Steve Mocco participated football fall semester after final year wrestling, don't know that he played in a game.

 

Played in goal line situations. (at least once!)

[11986]

Marcus LeVesseur at D3 Augsburg excelled in both sports

[BlacknGold]

Football mutilates your body and destroys your brain. It's not worth it. Hope they choose wrestling in the long term, they'll be successful in whatever they do

[jchapman]

Antonio Garay did both at Boston College.  Placed 4th at NCAAs in 2000 and was drafted in 6th round of 2003 NFL draft.  Played parts of 9 or 10 seasons in the NFL.

 

Bob Golic did both at Notre Dame.  Placed 3rd and 4th at NCAAs in mid70s, then drafted in the 2nd round of the 1979 NFL draft.  Played 14 seasons in the NFL.

Edited April 14, 2023 by jchapman

[jchapman]

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Edited April 14, 2023 by jchapman

[MizzouFan01]

I think Mark Ellis 2x AA and National Champ did both football and wrestling at Mizzou. Football maybe a year or two before dropping and just wrestling full time. 

[Gus]

Mark Sindlinger was a three year starter for the Iowa football team and a 2x AA for the wrestling team.

[Iwrite]

Sherwyn Thorson was a three-year starter on the Iowa football team's offensive line in the early 1960s and played many seasons in the CFL and is in the Winnipeg 
Bluebombers Hall of Fame. He was NCAA heavyweight champion for Iowa in 1962 after being runnerup as a sophomore in 1960. He missed the 1961 seson due to a strange academic situation. "Thumper" Thorson was one of the first college wrestlers to lift weights seriously and he is a member of both Iowa wrestling halls of fame.

Art Baker (191 pounds, 1959) and Jim Nance (hwt, 1963 and '65) were NCAA champions for Syracuse and also were football stars in college and had successful pro careers, while Curley Culp did the same at Arizona State. Culp was a rare double, being first-team All-American in football and NCAA wrestling champion (1967). He had a lenghty pro career and is a member of the Pro Footall Hall of Fame. There are others too.

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, BlacknGold said:

Football mutilates your body and destroys your brain. It's not worth it. Hope they choose wrestling in the long term, they'll be successful in whatever they do

It's getting a lot better. It's not like the 70s. The amount of shit they've done to protect players is...well, it'd be impressive if it wasn't done at the point of a MULTI-BILLION dollar lawsuit.

And then they just had star players get hurt. 

Helmets are MUST safer(and getting even safer). They have those bubble helmets they wore in training camp that even further reduce the impact to the head. They're developing helmets with those inside that are supposed to be even better yet. 

Crack back blocks or blind side. We used to celebrate the shit out of that...you'd take a kick one way, reverse field, catch a guy not looking and just light-him-up...and the coaches and everyone would go nuts. That was less than 20 years ago. Not you get sent home from practice. In fact, they keep trying to kickoffs as much as possible(and now punts) by moving the ball out to the 25 as that's the play where the most injuries occur. 

The defenseless receiver, etc...etc..

People say it's making the sport soft, but I don't want to keep reading stories about Mike Webster in his truck, confused, finding relief only through huffing paint or watching guys play until their 40 and then take their own life(Junior Seau among many). 

 

But, they can only make it but so safe(see Tua) and while you can certainly walk around with bad knees or hips or whatever from Wrestling, the head injuries are  insignificant in comparison...but so is the money. If Keuter has success early on at Iowa playing FB, good chance he tries to make a go of it in the NFL. Hopefully they'll have new helmets by then.

 

Hopke seems to be determined to Wrestle though.

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I have seen the discussions here and on other boards about guys like Iowa's Ben Kueter and Koy Hopke possibly doing both.

How often does this actually happen at the D1 level? And with what degree of success?

I am aware of situations like Stephen Neal and Carlton Haselrig who did not play football in college, but went on to all-pro careers in the NFL. I am unaware of any who did both in college though. 

Is it more common in D2, D3, NAIA?

Finally, what is the lowest weight this has happened at?

I know Tony Azarian was an All American NT  at Whitewater while Wrestling 158...IIRC. He was not a big guy. They went on a run where they were in the D3 National Championship game for ~9 years in a row, won a whole lot. Their coach left and is now the coach at Kansas. His record at one point was something like 110-4. They were dominant. And Azarian is still the leading tackler in school history I believe. 

That was D3...maybe NAIA. I think they started out as NAIA and then became D3.

 

https://uwwsports.com/honors/athletics-hall-of-fame/tony-azarian/130

Edited April 14, 2023 by scourge165

[BlacknGold]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

It's getting a lot better. It's not like the 70s. The amount of shit they've done to protect players is...well, it'd be impressive if it wasn't done at the point of a MULTI-BILLION dollar lawsuit.

And then they just had star players get hurt. 

Helmets are MUST safer(and getting even safer). They have those bubble helmets they wore in training camp that even further reduce the impact to the head. They're developing helmets with those inside that are supposed to be even better yet. 

Crack back blocks or blind side. We used to celebrate the shit out of that...you'd take a kick one way, reverse field, catch a guy not looking and just light-him-up...and the coaches and everyone would go nuts. That was less than 20 years ago. Not you get sent home from practice. In fact, they keep trying to kickoffs as much as possible(and now punts) by moving the ball out to the 25 as that's the play where the most injuries occur. 

The defenseless receiver, etc...etc..

People say it's making the sport soft, but I don't want to keep reading stories about Mike Webster in his truck, confused, finding relief only through huffing paint or watching guys play until their 40 and then take their own life(Junior Seau among many). 

 

But, they can only make it but so safe(see Tua) and while you can certainly walk around with bad knees or hips or whatever from Wrestling, the head injuries are  insignificant in comparison...but so is the money. If Keuter has success early on at Iowa playing FB, good chance he tries to make a go of it in the NFL. Hopefully they'll have new helmets by then.

 

Hopke seems to be determined to Wrestle though.

Are millions of dollars from football the only way to a happy life? Perhaps long term health is more important... Or maybe I just don't want Ben Kueter to get drafted to the nfl before graduating lol, go hawks!

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I know Tony Azarian was an All American NT  at Whitewater while Wrestling 158...IIRC. He was not a big guy. They went on a run where they were in the D3 National Championship game for ~9 years in a row, won a whole lot. Their coach left and is now the coach at Kansas. His record at one point was something like 110-4. They were dominant. And Azarian is still the leading tackler in school history I believe. 

That was D3...maybe NAIA. I think they started out as NAIA and then became D3.

 

https://uwwsports.com/honors/athletics-hall-of-fame/tony-azarian/130

That reminds me of a kid who played football and wrestled for Wheaton Warrenville South HS in IL. He wrestled 152 as a Sr and was a state champ. He was also the nose tackle on two state championship football teams. One of those years he wrestled 142.

I remember watching him play. He would get really low and submarine his way into the backfield and just mess everything up grabbing at shins, ankles, feet, whatever. Tough as nails. And a great name to boot. Spartak "Sparty" Chino.

I looked him up on Wrestlestat. He wrestled at Ohio and was a 3x NQ with a round of 12 finish. But I don't think he played football at Ohio.

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, BlacknGold said:

Are millions of dollars from football the only way to a happy life? Perhaps long term health is more important... Or maybe I just don't want Ben Kueter to get drafted to the nfl before graduating lol, go hawks!

There are a lot of ways to make money.

[Plasmodium]

Steve "Dr. Death" Williams was a multiple time AA while wrestling for OU in the early 80s.  Couldn't beat Bruce Baumgartner.  Was also an All-Big8 OL.   Had a successful pro wrestling career after that.

RIP

[Gus]

5 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

There are a lot of ways to make money.

Mo money, mo problems 

[Wrestleknownothing]

44 minutes ago, Gus said:

Mo money, mo problems 

I keep hearing that. I just haven't found it to be the case.

[ionel]

58 minutes ago, Gus said:

Mo money, mo problems 

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

That reminds me of a kid who played football and wrestled for Wheaton Warrenville South HS in IL. He wrestled 152 as a Sr and was a state champ. He was also the nose tackle on two state championship football teams. One of those years he wrestled 142.

I remember watching him play. He would get really low and submarine his way into the backfield and just mess everything up grabbing at shins, ankles, feet, whatever. Tough as nails. And a great name to boot. Spartak "Sparty" Chino.

I looked him up on Wrestlestat. He wrestled at Ohio and was a 3x NQ with a round of 12 finish. But I don't think he played football at Ohio.

My HS team...and this is I think 4 years ahead of me, but we won State. We had 3 D1 Linemen(Wisconsin, Cincy and Indiana). We had 4 OL who weighted over 300. We went(LT to RT) 340/300/310/245/300.

When I played, I was listed as a 6'2 220 RB/LB when I was not 6'1 and am only now 220 when I shouldn't be over 200. So..ya know, I assume they inflated those guys weights just as they did mine, but I'm going off the program and either way, they were big dudes. A couple guys went two ways, but we played a 3-3-5 or a 30 stack. DE Scholarship to Wisconsin 295 and it was legit. Other DE 300(our RT, biggest freak athlete I've ever seen, ran a ~4.7 40, benched 400 in HS, could do the splits...could not add 2+2...I played with his brother and he was bigger, a National Judo Champ and yet somehow made his brother look like a Rhodes Scholar).

ANYWAY, our NT was our 135 pounder. He got tech falled in the Sec finals by a Freshmen. Went to state as a Sr, 0-2 Barbecue, but he was just so tough, quick and a MASSIVE 135 pounder who likely would not have been USADA approved and he may have had a screw loose. Like...the screw that holds the whole foundation in place...

 

So not a great Wrestler, but one helluva NT on a good team. 

 

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, BlacknGold said:

Are millions of dollars from football the only way to a happy life? Perhaps long term health is more important... Or maybe I just don't want Ben Kueter to get drafted to the nfl before graduating lol, go hawks!

I mean...it doesn't hurt!

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I'm just saying they are at least making the sport safer. A LOT safer and it's tough when you have a chance to play in the NFL to not take it. Especially if he's a dynamic OLBer as they get paid LOTS of money. 

It'd be a LOT of fun to watch the next group of HWTs and see Kueter in there though!

[jchapman]

21 hours ago, scourge165 said:

My HS team...and this is I think 4 years ahead of me, but we won State. We had 3 D1 Linemen(Wisconsin, Cincy and Indiana). We had 4 OL who weighted over 300. We went(LT to RT) 340/300/310/245/300.

When I played, I was listed as a 6'2 220 RB/LB when I was not 6'1 and am only now 220 when I shouldn't be over 200. So..ya know, I assume they inflated those guys weights just as they did mine, but I'm going off the program and either way, they were big dudes. A couple guys went two ways, but we played a 3-3-5 or a 30 stack. DE Scholarship to Wisconsin 295 and it was legit. Other DE 300(our RT, biggest freak athlete I've ever seen, ran a ~4.7 40, benched 400 in HS, could do the splits...could not add 2+2...I played with his brother and he was bigger, a National Judo Champ and yet somehow made his brother look like a Rhodes Scholar).

ANYWAY, our NT was our 135 pounder. He got tech falled in the Sec finals by a Freshmen. Went to state as a Sr, 0-2 Barbecue, but he was just so tough, quick and a MASSIVE 135 pounder who likely would not have been USADA approved and he may have had a screw loose. Like...the screw that holds the whole foundation in place...

 

So not a great Wrestler, but one helluva NT on a good team. 

 

Who was the DE who went to Wisconsin?