Where Does Lee Rank?

[Perry]

In the list of 3 timers where do you think he belongs? Hard to argue his career ended up better than Zain, nolf, nickel or Ruth. He had more losses, worse overall placements and got pinned a couple of times as well. His placement is pretty close to cox (cox slight advantage) but cox also had an Olympic and senior world medal before he graduated. Alex dieringer?

 

Or would he be closer to two time Champs like David Taylor or imar? Just curious where everyone lumps him given his senior year.

[jchapman]

 

[PSUSMC]

Not trolling, but Statistically he's towards the back-end of Iowa's 3 timers.

Ed Banach, Barry Davis, Lincoln Mc and Jimmy Zalesky each had better overall NCAA Championship placings than Spenser Lee.

[Wrassler]

Joe Williams was a three x champ. His brother , TJ, had one loss in college!

[Wrassler]

Joe Williams was a three x champ. His brother , TJ, had one loss in college!

 

TJ has best all time record at Iowa!

[MPhillips]

I believe there are fifty 3xer's. He's in there.

[Dogbone]

He was the most dominant wrestler I have ever personally seen.      He bonus pointed almost everyone he faced, including pinning and tech falling guys who have won NCAAs. 

He had an injury plagued career and still won 3 Titles.

If you want to rank the 3 timers by where they finished when they came up short, then just copy and paste the list.

The bottom line is we may never see anything like him again at the college level.  To me, he was one the best to ever do it regardless of credentials.

 

[Wrassler]

Lee Kemp was much better! No one came close to scoring on him. I saw him wrestle in 1981 at Northern Open in Wisconsin. I lost to Jim Gibbons in that tournament in my first college match. I took fifth in the Illinois Open that year while at Northwestern.

[headshuck]

He was the most dominant wrestler I have ever personally seen.      He bonus pointed almost everyone he faced, including pinning and tech falling guys who have won NCAAs. 
He had an injury plagued career and still won 3 Titles.
If you want to rank the 3 timers by where they finished when they came up short, then just copy and paste the list.
The bottom line is we may never see anything like him again at the college level.  To me, he was one the best to ever do it regardless of credentials.
 

Steveson would like a word.

[Wrassler]

Lee Kemp was much better! No one came close to scoring on him. I saw him wrestle in 1981 at Northern Open in Wisconsin. I lost to Jim Gibbons in that tournament in my first college match. I took fifth in the Illinois Open that year while at Northwestern.

 

While competing for the University of Wisconsin–Madison Lee Kemp was a four-time NCAADivision I National finalist, winning the championship three times and placing 2nd, on a split referee's decision, as a true freshman at 18 years old. Lee recorded losses to only three wrestlers in his collegiate career losing his last college match in the NCAA finals as a freshman, posting 110 wins and no losses against collegiate competition in his last three years, which included the historic win over the legendary Dan Gable in November of Lee's sophomore year, while he was still 18 years old. March 10, 2010 Inside Wisconsin Sports Article,"The Day Lee Kemp Beat the Great Dan Gable", by Mike Beacom.

Kemp was America's first three-time World Champion, winning his first title in 1978 at age 21, establishing him as the youngest American world champion ever, a distinction he held for 30 years. Lee was a four-time World Cup Champion, 7-time United States Freestyle National Champion and was a heavy favorite for gold earning a berth on the 1980 United States Olympic Freestyle Wrestling Team, but was unable to compete because of the U.S. boycottof the Olympics.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

19 minutes ago, wrestler said:

Lee Kemp was much better! No one came close to scoring on him. I saw him wrestle in 1981 at Northern Open in Wisconsin. I lost to Jim Gibbons in that tournament in my first college match. I took fifth in the Illinois Open that year while at Northwestern.

Better than I ever did!  I still have Lee over wrestler, though!

Edited March 24, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[BigRedFan]

24 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

He was the most dominant wrestler I have ever personally seen.      He bonus pointed almost everyone he faced, including pinning and tech falling guys who have won NCAAs. 

He had an injury plagued career and still won 3 Titles.

If you want to rank the 3 timers by where they finished when they came up short, then just copy and paste the list.

The bottom line is we may never see anything like him again at the college level.  To me, he was one the best to ever do it regardless of credentials.

 

Where does Spencer's getting pinned twice and losing six matches figure into your calculations?

[Dogbone]

13 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Steveson would like a word.

Pretty sure Steveson did compare himself to Lee when they split the Hodge and he leaned Spencer.

No issues if you want to disagree but Steveson didn't have the same bonus rate as Spencer and certainly didn't end as many matches in the 1st period against All-Americans. 

It was almost surprising if someone even made it to the 3rd period against Lee, I never thought that when watching Steveson.

[headshuck]

Steveson wasn’t a pinner. Never came close to losing after his true freshman season. I can’t recall how many TDs he gave up. Lee gave up TDs, backpoints, was pinned more than once. Great no doubt, but I think saying we’ll never see another as dominant is questionable.

[Dogbone]

1 minute ago, BigRedFan said:

Where does Spencer's getting pinned twice and losing six matches figure into your calculations?

WHAT?!? Spencer wasn't undefeated. OMG this changes everything. 

I said what I said and answered the question the OP asked.  If you want to rank him differently or provide your own opinion, feel free.   I won't lose sleep if you don't think Spencer is one of the best.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

20 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Pretty sure Steveson did compare himself to Lee when they split the Hodge and he leaned Spencer.

No issues if you want to disagree but Steveson didn't have the same bonus rate as Spencer and certainly didn't end as many matches in the 1st period against All-Americans. 

It was almost surprising if someone even made it to the 3rd period against Lee, I never thought that when watching Steveson.

Steveson said that Lee was the one wrestler he always made sure to watch.  He admired the dominance.

[MPhillips]

Lee has been one of the best college wrestlers in the last 5-6 years. One of my favorites and I'll miss seeing him. I felt similar about DeSanto. He was also a favorite who I missed seeing this season in college. Not comparing the two, just guys I enjoyed watching and not interested in a pissing match about where Lee ranks. He's a 3xer. I'm good with leaving it at that. 

[PortaJohn]

There's too much recency bias with Lee to rank him appropriately versus the field.  I think we can all agree his the best all time 125 pounder.  On the 3X timer list I'd imagine he'd come in somewhere around 12th.  

Edited March 24, 2023 by PortaJohn

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

There's too much recency bias with Lee to rank him appropriately versus the field.  I think we can all agree his the best all time 125 pounder.  On the 3X timer list I'd imagine he'd come in somewhere around 12th.  

Abas, pretty good.

[PortaJohn]

11 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Abas, pretty good.

If only we could've watched those two wrestle.  

Edited March 24, 2023 by PortaJohn

[Barracuda141]

In the last 25 years, I have him ahead of Eric Guerrero and Rosholt. He's behind Joe Williams, Abas, Greg Jones, Ed Ruth, Ringer, J'Den, Snyder, Retherford, Nolf, and Nickal. He's also behind Starocci & Brooks.

[Jamie_Taco]

6 minutes ago, Barracuda141 said:

In the last 25 years, I have him ahead of Eric Guerrero and Rosholt. He's behind Joe Williams, Abas, Greg Jones, Ed Ruth, Ringer, J'Den, Snyder, Retherford, Nolf, and Nickal. He's also behind Starocci & Brooks.

So you have him behind every single PSU 3xer? L.. O... L

Spencer has two Hodges, a Sullivain Award, and had one of the most dominant careers we have ever seen. Putting him behind half the guys on your list just shows what little you know about the sport of wrestling. Also, take COVID away and Spencer's career is over in 2021 with 4 titles. Nobody was hit worse by the shutdown than Spencer Lee.

[PortaJohn]

Just now, Jamie_Taco said:

So you have him behind every single PSU 3xer? L.. O... L

Spencer has two Hodges, a Sullivain Award, and had one of the most dominant careers we have ever seen. Putting him behind half the guys on your list just shows what little you know about the sport of wrestling. Also, take COVID away and Spencer's career is over in 2021 with 4 titles. Nobody was hit worse by the shutdown than Spencer Lee.

Every wrestler who lost their senior year NCAA tournament due to Covid was hit worse than Spencer Lee.  

[Jamie_Taco]

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Every wrestler who lost their senior year NCAA tournament due to Covid was hit worse than Spencer Lee.  

Okay, yes, I agree with you there, but you understand what I am saying in regard to this discussion. Spencer's healthiest season was 2019-20, and it cost him a fourth title and a potential Olympics run.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Jamie_Taco

[Perry]

There is no guarantee Lee would have won it during the covid year, even if he was the front runner in the bracket.