If brooks and Starroci win 4 titles

[PortaJohn]

49 minutes ago, Gus said:

I know I am in the minority but I believe that DT is the best Penn State wrestler ever. I would go

I doubt you're in the minority.  I believe when discussed in wrestling media and on the BWI board Taylor gets the GOAT status for PSU wrestling. 

[gimpeltf]

I know I am in the minority but I believe that DT is the best Penn State wrestler ever. I would go
1- DT
2- Zain
3 - Nolf
4- Nickal
5- Brooks
6- Starrocci 
7- Ruth
8 - RBY
9- McCoy
10- Wright

A lot of recent bias there (somewhat deserved) but I would add Andy Matter up there somewhere.

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[Gus]

7 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

A lot of recent bias there (somewhat deserved) but I would add Andy Matter up there somewhere.

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He was a 2x champ that did not make the cut along with Nick Lee, Vincenzo & Jeff Prescott. Mark Hall, Jim Martin and Frank Molinaro deserve to be mentioned as 1Xer's with great careers.

[PortaJohn]

5 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

A lot of recent bias there (somewhat deserved) but I would add Andy Matter up there somewhere.

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Jeff Prescott wasn't too shabby either.  2x winner plus OW in 1991

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

He would have lost to a guy that never AAed or a guy that peaked by taking 8th at ncaas? I’m sorry that doesn’t track 

I was referring to losing to Brooks losing to Zahid. The seeding comment was that Brooks likely would have been seeded ahead of Lujan and Bolen. I believe Brooks would have beaten everyone but Zahid that year.

[Hurricane Wrestling]

5 hours ago, Jamie_Taco said:

I could be wrong, but I believe Carter has said before that he's not interested in going for five. That could change, but I honestly don't see what he gains in terms of GOAT talk going for the extra title. It's not like Cael or Dake wouldn't have won 5 if given the fifth year to compete.

Well, Cael would have definitely won five, but Taylor would have denied Dake his 5th.

[Gus]

45 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

I was referring to losing to Brooks losing to Zahid. The seeding comment was that Brooks likely would have been seeded ahead of Lujan and Bolen. I believe Brooks would have beaten everyone but Zahid that year.

Wasn't Zahid sitting out because of his cocaine habit that year?

[Le duke]

I was referring to losing to Brooks losing to Zahid. The seeding comment was that Brooks likely would have been seeded ahead of Lujan and Bolen. I believe Brooks would have beaten everyone but Zahid that year.

Coacaine has entered the chat.


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[ionel]

28 minutes ago, Hurricane Wrestling said:

Well, Cael would have definitely won five, but Taylor would have denied Dake his 5th.

You think Cael would've won it Fr year?  Do you know who he had to beat?

[bnwtwg]

3 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

someone skiing the slopes of Rome

 

[JeanGuy]

2 hours ago, Gus said:

I know I am in the minority, but I believe that DT is the best Penn State wrestler ever. I would go

1- DT

2- Zain

3 - Nolf

4- Nickal

5- Brooks

6- Starrocci 

7- Ruth

8 - RBY

9- McCoy

10- Wright

Ed Ruth as 7. Boy are you tough. 3-timer with a 3rd place finish. 3 career losses. 76% bonus rate for 46 career pins. What a ham and egger.

[Gus]

10 minutes ago, JeanGuy said:

Ed Ruth as 7. Boy are you tough. 3-timer with a 3rd place finish. 3 career losses. 76% bonus rate for 46 career pins. What a ham and egger.

Ruth was a hammer. Maybe he should be 4th or 5th... Man, PSU has had a run of studs....

[Hurricane Wrestling]

11 minutes ago, ionel said:

You think Cael would've won it Fr year?  Do you know who he had to beat?

My answer was based on the hypothetical that the wrestlers discussed would all be given an extra year after their eligibility otherwise would have expired.  Therefore, I wasn't talking about Cael's true freshman year.  At any rate, its an interesting question, complicated by the fact that the weight classes that year were 177 and 190 and were changed in Cael's redshirt freshman year, when he wrestled at 184.  

Presumably, he would have had to have beaten Mitch Clark or Tim Hartung, the champs at 177 and 190 respectively (depending on which weight he wrestled).  In either case I would have favored Cael to win, more so at 177 than 190, where he would have been undersized (and where Fullhart would have also been in the mix).  

[Elevator]

3 hours ago, Gus said:

I know I am in the minority but I believe that DT is the best Penn State wrestler ever. I would go

1- DT

2- Zain

3 - Nolf

4- Nickal

5- Brooks

6- Starrocci 

7- Ruth

8 - RBY

9- McCoy

10- Wright

Nick Lee = 2x Champ and 5x All-American.  Is he still carrying water and chopping wood?   Nick belongs on the list too. 

[Gus]

14 minutes ago, Elevator said:

Nick Lee = 2x Champ and 5x All-American.  Is he still carrying water and chopping wood?   Nick belongs on the list too. 

Who would you kick off to include Nick?

[peanut]

5 hours ago, Gus said:

I know I am in the minority but I believe that DT is the best Penn State wrestler ever. I would go

1- DT

2- Zain

3 - Nolf

4- Nickal

5- Brooks

6- Starrocci 

7- Ruth

8 - RBY

9- McCoy

10- Wright

Personally I would put the best PSU wrestlers in tiers:

• Tier 1: DT, Zain, Ruth, Nolf, Bo, McCoy
• Tier 2: Wright, Joseph, Matter, Prescott, N. Lee
• Tier 3: Hall, Nico
• Tier 4: a bunch of guys

RBY, Starocci, Brooks, and Dean are still active so I'll wait until they're done.

Also, the tiers are not meant to be dismissive of anyone. All those guys are incredibly good wrestlers.

Finally, in terms of overall careers -- to include freestyle -- I think DT is in a class by himself.

[AKHUNTER]

10 hours ago, 82bordeaux said:

Let's see if they can get three before we talk about four. A lot of people have drowned halfway across the river.

 

when I got half way and knew I couldn't make it all the way...........I just turned back. Lucky for me I made it..........every time.

[AKHUNTER]

22 minutes ago, peanut said:

Personally I would put the best PSU wrestlers in tiers:

• Tier 1: DT, Zain, Ruth, Nolf, Bo, McCoy
• Tier 2: Wright, Joseph, Matter, Prescott, N. Lee
• Tier 3: Hall, Nico
• Tier 4: a bunch of guys

RBY, Starocci, Brooks, and Dean are still active so I'll wait until they're done.

Also, the tiers are not meant to be dismissive of anyone. All those guys are incredibly good wrestlers.

Finally, in terms of overall careers -- to include freestyle -- I think DT is in a class by himself.

if all that is counted is college.......DT goes to tier 2 imo.

[peanut]

8 minutes ago, AKHUNTER said:

if all that is counted is college.......DT goes to tier 2 imo.

DT has two Hodges, which is enough for tier one IMO.

[ionel]

4 hours ago, Hurricane Wrestling said:

My answer was based on the hypothetical that the wrestlers discussed would all be given an extra year after their eligibility otherwise would have expired.  Therefore, I wasn't talking about Cael's true freshman year.  At any rate, its an interesting question, complicated by the fact that the weight classes that year were 177 and 190 and were changed in Cael's redshirt freshman year, when he wrestled at 184.  

Presumably, he would have had to have beaten Mitch Clark or Tim Hartung, the champs at 177 and 190 respectively (depending on which weight he wrestled).  In either case I would have favored Cael to win, more so at 177 than 190, where he would have been undersized (and where Fullhart would have also been in the mix).  

I'm not sure if Cael would've been undefeated if he wrestled a full schedule Fr year.  He might've still won it but would've been a tough match against Mitch Clark.   

Pat Smith won his first 3 true Fr, So, & Jr year, obviously couldve won 5 as true Sr would've been easier than his rsSr yr.  Pretty sure he was unbeaten after Fr year but he didn't dominate like Cael.  Cael always looked like he was in total control of every match. 

[MedicineMan]

12 hours ago, Broomstick said:

Yes, they will be 1.a and 1.b, but I will put Bo at 1.c unless they both ramp up their pin percentages.

Wait.. so what then, if Star and Brooks ramp up their pin % then you move Bo to 1A or 1 B?  Not following. ??

[AKHUNTER]

3 hours ago, peanut said:

DT has two Hodges, which is enough for tier one IMO.

valid point but 2 super years............ and 2 came up short years. again I am saying college years only.

[scourge165]

15 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Zain was pretty good, too! 

DT is an all-time great but "only" won twice, so I think he's out of the conversation.

If they get four (five), Brooks and Starocci are both all-timers on anyone's list, but lack of bonus, greyshirting and Covid years have kinda muddied things up a bit.  I may even like Ed Ruth over the two for these reasons.

THANK YOU! 

If it's as easy as just ranking by titles, then...sure. I don't think it is though. I don't think DT should be behind every 3 timer because he "only" won 2 titles. A fluke(IMO) pin vs Bubba as an undefeated Freshmen and then two matches with Dake...arguably the 2nd best College Wrestler ever.

Ruth, Nickal, Zain...

I'd need to see how they win the next 2 IF they win the next 2(or 3 in Starocci's case). But the other 4 just dominated at their best. So I want to see how Brooks and Star look before forming an opinion. 

 

I mean...if Lee were to lose to Glory in a fluke, upset match, are people going to insist Stieber is the better Wrestler?

[Cowboy08]

6 hours ago, scourge165 said:

THANK YOU! 

If it's as easy as just ranking by titles, then...sure. I don't think it is though. I don't think DT should be behind every 3 timer because he "only" won 2 titles. A fluke(IMO) pin vs Bubba as an undefeated Freshmen and then two matches with Dake...arguably the 2nd best College Wrestler ever.

Ruth, Nickal, Zain...

I'd need to see how they win the next 2 IF they win the next 2(or 3 in Starocci's case). But the other 4 just dominated at their best. So I want to see how Brooks and Star look before forming an opinion. 

 

I mean...if Lee were to lose to Glory in a fluke, upset match, are people going to insist Stieber is the better Wrestler?

 

I agree 100%.  Not that Star and Brooks can't get to tier 1 but even if they win 4 titles, based on the eye test, unless something dramatically changes, I wouldn't put them ahead of guys like Zain, Nolf, DT, Nickal, Ruth etc regardless of who won more championships.  Those guys flat out dominated whereas Star and Brooks just win.  Big difference IMO

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

27 minutes ago, Cowboy08 said:

 

I agree 100%.  Not that Star and Brooks can't get to tier 1 but even if they win 4 titles, based on the eye test, unless something dramatically changes, I wouldn't put them ahead of guys like Zain, Nolf, DT, Nickal, Ruth etc regardless of who won more championships.  Those guys flat out dominated whereas Star and Brooks just win.  Big difference IMO

I was told yesterday that bonus rate as a sign of greatness is the biggest myth in wrestling.  I would counter that by saying : If Brooks didn't keep matches against some competitors so close, he wouldn't have lost against Coleman.  You let a guy stay close, some crazy stuff can happen.