What top wrestlers left eligibility on the table?.

[Threadkilla]

With so many wrestlers who have had seven or even eight years of eligibility through this year?   How many top guys left eligibility on the table?   Vincenzo Joseph and Mark Hall both had eligibility remaining.  Both were number one seed in the NCAA tournament the covid year.  Mark Hall was only at Penn State for 4 years with No Redshirt. . 1,2,2, top seed.  Zahid was under the suspension.    Joseph took a redshirt as a frosh.   I seem to remember initially that winter sports were not offered another year of Eligibility after covid.   Joseph had the chance to be at 3 timer.    I believe Mark  chose to move on as he had a redshirt available.   Imagine if Joseph was there at 165 the following year when Penn State only had four Champs.    

Was there other top seeds that moved on after covid.?

 

[scourge165]

Hall didn't have time remaining, he used it all up. 4 years and his final year was 2020. Now free year, just...a sad finish for a 3 time finalist.

Pretty sure Joseph was just...the same situation but a year older. Meaning he took a RS and then was a RS Freshmen when Hall won it. 

 

So Hall went 1/2/2-2020 canceled, no free year

Joseph went RS/1/1/2-2020...

And if you've used up your 4 years...which 2020 was considered a year, a RS can't do anything. 

[Threadkilla]

8 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Hall didn't have time remaining, he used it all up. 4 years and his final year was 2020. Now free year, just...a sad finish for a 3 time finalist.

Pretty sure Joseph was just...the same situation but a year older. Meaning he took a RS and then was a RS Freshmen when Hall won it. 

 

So Hall went 1/2/2-2020 canceled, no free year

Joseph went RS/1/1/2-2020...

And if you've used up your 4 years...which 2020 was considered a year, a RS can't do anything. 

That doesn't jive. There were several instances of multi year starters including Covid that were granted an additional year of eligibility.   ie:   Wyatt Sheets started his NCAA career in 2017 the same year as Mark Hall. He redshirted in 2017 has a RS freshman season in 2018 and has been a starter for the last 5 years.  it seems to me after the rule changed that Mark Hall and Joseph could have had one more year of eligibility.   I know Mark Hall was ready to move on I'm not sure about Joseph.

[scourge165]

8 minutes ago, Threadkilla said:

That doesn't jive. There were several instances of multi year starters including Covid that were granted an additional year of eligibility.   ie:   Wyatt Sheets started his NCAA career in 2017 the same year as Mark Hall. He redshirted in 2017 has a RS freshman season in 2018 and has been a starter for the last 5 years.  it seems to me after the rule changed that Mark Hall and Joseph could have had one more year of eligibility.   I know Mark Hall was ready to move on I'm not sure about Joseph.

Yeah...it does jive.

As you said, he redshirted the first year. So now he gets 2021(free) 2022...and I don't know why the hell he's Wrestling now...I'd guess Medical RS, but it has nothing to do with Hall or Joseph. 

They weren't given a free year for 2020. There was no free year until 2021. So they'd wrestled and completed FOUR years...and that was all you got until this little Covid thing where they inexplicably gave guys the NEXT year a free year.

You're going to be able to point out how others got 5 shots at NCAAs and some guys wrestled until they were eligible for Medicare. Doesn't matter. They were both pre-covid and they both used up all 4 years. 

 

 

Really...trust me or wait until someone else jumps in, but they didn't leave eligibility on the table. They both exhausted it. Both had 4 full years...per the NCAA. Which sucks, but it jives. 

[Threadkilla]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah...it does jive.

As you said, he redshirted the first year. So now he gets 2021(free) 2022...and I don't know why the hell he's Wrestling now...I'd guess Medical RS, but it has nothing to do with Hall or Joseph. 

They weren't given a free year for 2020. There was no free year until 2021. So they'd wrestled and completed FOUR years...and that was all you got until this little Covid thing where they inexplicably gave guys the NEXT year a free year.

You're going to be able to point out how others got 5 shots at NCAAs and some guys wrestled until they were eligible for Medicare. Doesn't matter. They were both pre-covid and they both used up all 4 years. 

 

 

Really...trust me or wait until someone else jumps in, but they didn't leave eligibility on the table. They both exhausted it. Both had 4 full years...per the NCAA. Which sucks, but it jives. 

 

 

He didn't have a medical redshirt.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Threadkilla

[scourge165]

Ok....well, that shows me nothing and I don't really care, this isn't about Sheets, it's about Hall and Joseph and they just DID NOT leave eligibility on the table.

(Ok, you initially posted a table that had nothing in it...like Excel without any entries)...just for context.

 

Do you understand 2020 was counted as a year toward your eligibility? If so, that was their FOUR year(both of them). So what good would a RS year have done for Hall? 
He could be a 5th year RS with zero eligibility remaining?

I don't know what's up with Sheets. My GUESS looking at his career and how he never wrestled for Okie State the first two years, maybe he wasn't enrolled in 17. Then 18=RS year.

'19-1 year
'20-2 year
'21-3 year
'22-3 year
'23-4 year

I don't know. But I'm positive about the PSU guys(and...the B1G guys in particular).

Edited February 16, 2023 by scourge165

[Threadkilla]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah...it does jive.

As you said, he redshirted the first year. So now he gets 2021(free) 2022...and I don't know why the hell he's Wrestling now...I'd guess Medical RS, but it has nothing to do with Hall or Joseph. 

They weren't given a free year for 2020. There was no free year until 2021. So they'd wrestled and completed FOUR years...and that was all you got until this little Covid thing where they inexplicably gave guys the NEXT year a free year.

You're going to be able to point out how others got 5 shots at NCAAs and some guys wrestled until they were eligible for Medicare. Doesn't matter. They were both pre-covid and they both used up all 4 years. 

 

 

Really...trust me or wait until someone else jumps in, but they didn't leave eligibility on the table. They both exhausted it. Both had 4 full years...per the NCAA. Which sucks, but it jives. 

 

 

Per the NCAA eligibility rule following Covid           

What does an extra year of eligibility mean?
All student-athletes whose 2020-2021 season was impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic will now get 6 years to compete in 4 full seasons of their sport in college. Traditionally, there is a 5-year clock for athletes to play 4 years. For seniors, this ruling meant a chance to finish out their college careers. For others, it opens a door to new academic and athletic opportunities.

their seasons was cut short at the big tens in 2020   and they were not able to compete for an actual national title.    

[Threadkilla]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Ok....well, that shows me nothing and I don't really care, this isn't about Sheets, it's about Hall and Joseph and they just DID NOT leave eligibility on the table.

(Ok, you initially posted a table that had nothing in it...like Excel without any entries)...just for context.

 

Do you understand 2020 was counted as a year toward your eligibility? If so, that was their FOUR year(both of them). So what good would a RS year have done for Hall? 
He could be a 5th year RS with zero eligibility remaining?

I don't know what's up with Sheets. My GUESS looking at his career and how he never wrestled for Okie State the first two years, maybe he wasn't enrolled in 17. Then 18=RS year.

'19-1 year
'20-2 year
'21-3 year
'22-3 year
'23-4 year

I don't know. But I'm positive about the PSU guys(and...the B1G guys in particular).

and no this wasn't started just about to Penn State guys it was about eligibility through covid.    

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, Threadkilla said:

 

 

Per the NCAA eligibility rule following Covid           

What does an extra year of eligibility mean?
All student-athletes whose 2020-2021 season was impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic will now get 6 years to compete in 4 full seasons of their sport in college. Traditionally, there is a 5-year clock for athletes to play 4 years. For seniors, this ruling meant a chance to finish out their college careers. For others, it opens a door to new academic and athletic opportunities.

their seasons was cut short at the big tens in 2020   and they were not able to compete for an actual national title.    

Right...but THEY'RE last year was the 2019-2020 season. So then...that's not applicable to them, is it?

They competed in four FULL seasons. I can't help you any more here. I just can't. It's like me trying to explain to LBJ I don't care about Greco. 

 

Their seasons were cut short. They got the raw end of the deal. So...now I'm done because I've given you the answer numerous times and you don't believe me and I don't really care at this point?

Believe they had eligibility or that they didn't. Makes no difference to me. Strange they wouldn't have come back for NIL money and to win another NCAA Title, but I guess they just didn't care enough

[Threadkilla]

1 minute ago, scourge165 said:

Right...but THEY'RE last year was the 2019-2020 season. So then...that's not applicable to them, is it?

They competed in four FULL seasons. I can't help you any more here. I just can't. It's like me trying to explain to LBJ I don't care about Greco. 

 

Their seasons were cut short. They got the raw end of the deal. So...now I'm done because I've given you the answer numerous times and you don't believe me and I don't really care at this point?

Believe they had eligibility or that they didn't. Makes no difference to me. Strange they wouldn't have come back for NIL money and to win another NCAA Title, but I guess they just didn't care enough

 

I have thought about that as that may be the only possible caveat.    

[Threadkilla]

[Threadkilla]

4 minutes ago, Threadkilla said:

Then I saw the updated rule.   Which wasn't the initial rule as [psted above.    Anyway,  thanks for your input.

 

[scourge165]

5 minutes ago, Threadkilla said:

 

I have thought about that as that may be the only possible caveat.    

Caveat, rule, it was always gonna screw someone. They just got screwed more than most. 

Especially those two. 1/2/21 and 1/1/2/1 are two guys who are goats. Not Hall is "just" a one time champ and Joseph in the long list of 2X Champs. 

[gimpeltf]

1 hour ago, Threadkilla said:

He didn't have a medical redshirt.

If you're talking Sheets- he did.

https://okstate.com/sports/wrestling/roster/wyatt-sheets/10473

Redshirted '17, medical '18. Then 5 years eligible.

[nhs67]

Both Hall and Joseph (and anyone who was wrestling their senior year) used their last year of eligibility up the cancelled year.

It was a ridiculous situation, but it is the truth.  Massa, Amine, and Micic all were Olympic Redshirting that year otherwise they would have also been done that year too.

[82bordeaux]

[Wrestleknownothing]

Well, I am glad we got that settled.

Grant Willits was eligible to return this season, and would have been the highest returning placer at 141, but decided not to.

[Idaho]

34 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Well, I am glad we got that settled.

Grant Willits was eligible to return this season, and would have been the highest returning placer at 141, but decided not to.

Correct.... Grant and Hunter.... Grant would have been ranked #1 heading into the season and Hunter somewhere in the top 8. 

[Crotalus]

Yeah, the free Covid year was dumb the way they applied it. If they felt it was necessary it should have applied to anyone who was competing in 2020, as their NCAA tournament was canceled. They way they applied it punished any seniors in their fourth year of competition in 2020, and gave a fifth year, and thus a chance to compete at five NCAA tournaments, to anyone that did not compete in 2020 (redshirts, Oly redshirts, and 2021 freshman) but did compete the next year.

[Jerry Callo]

I always thought the guy who got screwed the most with the 19-20 mess was Matt Kolodzik from Princeton  who burned his Olympic redshirt in February to help his team then got shut down when they cancelled the NCAA’s at the last minute.  

[Threadkilla]

4 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

If you're talking Sheets- he did.

https://okstate.com/sports/wrestling/roster/wyatt-sheets/10473

Redshirted '17, medical '18. Then 5 years eligible.

Thanks. Wrestlestat left it off as a medical. 

[El Luchador]

I real thought the guys who didn't use their red shirts and got f'ed by covid should have been given another year.

[Wrestleknownothing]

29 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

I real thought the guys who didn't use their red shirts and got f'ed by covid should have been given another year.

Yeah, it never made sense to me that someone who was actually affected by COVID (anyone whose fourth year of eligibility was 2020) in that they lost a chance to be crowned champ, or AA, or NQ did not get the benefit of the free year, but someone who was completely unaffected by the shutdown at the college level (2021 freshman) got an extra year. It is like they transferred Mark Hall's 4th year to Carter Starocci and they get 8 between them. Non-sensical.

[11986]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Yeah, it never made sense to me that someone who was actually affected by COVID (anyone whose fourth year of eligibility was 2020) in that they lost a chance to be crowned champ, or AA, or NQ did not get the benefit of the free year, but someone who was completely unaffected by the shutdown at the college level (2021 freshman) got an extra year. It is like they transferred Mark Hall's 4th year to Carter Starocci and they get 8 between them. Non-sensical.

with this I still don't get the logic that allowed anyone the opportunity to compete in the NCAA tournament 5 times. 

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, Jerry Callo said:

I always thought the guy who got screwed the most with the 19-20 mess was Matt Kolodzik from Princeton  who burned his Olympic redshirt in February to help his team then got shut down when they cancelled the NCAA’s at the last minute.  

Kolodzik pulled his redshirt because it became apparent during the course of the season that Princeton had a legit shot at winning the Ivy League title.  Cornell, the perennial champ of the league, was depleted with their top 3 wrestlers (Yianni, Dean, and Vito) on Olympic redshirt.   They ended up beating Cornell 19-13 so Kolodzik's contribution proved decisive and Princeton won their 1st Ivy League title since 1986.

All Ivy wrestlers got screwed more than most as none could benefit from the free 2021 year without transferring.  Any that wrestled in 2020 lost a shot at NCAAs and didn't get the free year unless they transferred. 

Kolodzik entered NCAAs undefeated and seeded 6th.  He had a chance to win it, but maybe not a better chance than the 1 seed Pat Lugo. Lugo also missed out on an excellent shot at a team title.

Top seeds that wrestled their last eligible year in 2020.

125: Jack Mueller: 4th seed,14-1, finalist 2019

125: Nick Piccininni: 3rd seed, 26-2

133: Seth Gross: 2nd seed, 27-2, 2017 NCAA champ

133: Chaz Tucker: 3rd seed, 31-0, never AAed

141: Luke Pletcher: 1 seed, 26-1

149: Pat Lugo: 1 seed 21-1

149: Matt Kolodzik: 6th seed, 14-0

165: Vincenzo Joseph: 2nd seed, 15-1

174: Mark Hall: 1 seed, 23-1 2017 NCAA Champ

174: Jordan Kutler: 3 seed, 21-1

174: Bryce Steiert: 5th seed 27-3

174: Joe Smith: 12 seed, 12-6

184: Taylor Lujan: 1 seed, 28-2, Never AAed

197: Kollin Moore: 1 seed, 27-0

197: Ben Darmstadt, 4 seed, 28-6

285: Tanner Hall, 4seed 23-3 (Imagine if he had taken a second Olympic redshirt and got 2021 for free and was able to compete in 2022 as well)

Other wrestler that had eligibility left and used some of it but never duplicated their 2020 success.

133: Micky Phillippi: 4 seed, 25-1, has not AAed to date

133: Sebastian Rivera: 1 seed, 13-2, never won a title

149: Boo Lewallen: 5th seed, 21-2, wrestled in 2021, did not return in 2022

165: Alex Marinelli: 1 seed, 20-1, never won a title

174: Jake Kemerer: 2 seed, 15-1, never won a title

184: Hunter Bolen: 2 seed, 24-2, 7th place in 2021, DNP 2022, ranked 7th 2023

197: Noah Adams: 2 seed, 32-0, wrestled in 2021, did not return in 2022, never AAed