flyingcement Posted August 20 Posted August 20 I don't want to embarrass a specific program, because that would be missing the point. I wanted to highlight something I have seem which seems to be part of a broader trend for wrestling, which in my opinion, runs contrary to the ethos of our sport. I just saw an assistant coaching job listed at a figure which was below 35K per year, and required constant travel, and night and weekend availability. This is a troubling sign for me to see. There are high school coaching gigs out where you can also teach gym class and earn tens of thousands more than this. This reminds me of the unpaid internship. In other words, the people who can afford to do this are financial privileged in some way. We are filtering people out who may have more passion and competence than anyone, because they can't earn a living wage. 1
Tyler Perry Posted August 20 Posted August 20 My dream is to be a college coach, but unless I can sleep in the wrestling room, idk how I could make that work. 2
LJB Posted August 20 Posted August 20 (edited) 35K still more than double minimum wage in this country and would come with considerable perks… Way over 2Xs the stipend paid to our #1 senior level athlete by USAW… Until very recently 35K a year to still be able to train and chase a dream would have been considered an absolute dream… Edited August 20 by LJB 1 2 1
flyingcement Posted August 20 Author Posted August 20 1 minute ago, LJB said: 35K still more than double minimum wage in this country and would come with considerable perks… over 3Xs the stipend paid to our #1 senior level athlete by USAW… Until very recently 35K a year to still be able to train and chase a dream would have been considered an absolute dream… I hear you, and I know where you're coming from. You value the hard, real path. You've never struck me as someone who thinks everything should be made easier or more comfortable. That's actually why I think this is worth discussing. My concern isn't that $35K isn't a meaningful amount of money, or that someone who takes the job isn't lucky to have the opportunity. My concern is that we're creating a situation where only certain people can afford to take the hard path in the first place. Wrestling has always appealed to me because it strips away a lot of that stuff. At some point, you get on the mat and prove it. You earn your spot. That's the hard and real way. But if becoming a coach requires you to accept a salary that isn't remotely sustainable unless you have some kind of financial cushion, then we're potentially losing people before they ever get the chance to prove themselves. And I know you care about people who are willing to do the hard thing. That's exactly who I'm worried about losing: the person who would give everything to wrestling, but simply can't afford to do it for $35K. That's the hidden cost I'm talking about. 3
LJB Posted August 20 Posted August 20 It is just the reality of this particular sport… one day as a lion… 1
flyingcement Posted August 20 Author Posted August 20 34 minutes ago, LJB said: It is just the reality of this particular sport… one day as a lion… from my perspective, it made me think that a donation towards a smaller program might be best earmarked for coaches salary
LJB Posted August 20 Posted August 20 1 minute ago, flyingcement said: from my perspective, it made me think that a donation towards a smaller program might be best earmarked for coaches salary It would not matter… I know personally a rather “successful” monetarily individual who gave a donation to USAW for the express use towards the Greco program years ago… he learned early on it was not used for that… that was several years before his own prodigy had represented the US internationally several times… he refuses to “donate” ever again… individuals must persue this sport for 100% personal reasons… nothing else makes any sense at all…
flyingcement Posted August 20 Author Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, LJB said: It would not matter… I know personally a rather “successful” monetarily individual who gave a donation to USAW for the express use towards the Greco program years ago… he learned early on it was not used for that… that was several years before his own prodigy had represented the US internationally several times… he refuses to “donate” ever again… individuals must persue this sport for 100% personal reasons… nothing else makes any sense at all… Man this is even more cynical than I imagined. But as you say it, I seem to recall that being an issue in the loss of Notre Dame's program, right? I will have to use a good lawyer like @VakAttack to ensure my donation is safe from being used on silly sports like football
LJB Posted August 20 Posted August 20 A good lawyer is a start… but you do not want to hear my own personal experiences with “good” lawyers… 1
ScottishSteel Posted August 20 Posted August 20 4 hours ago, LJB said: It is just the reality of this particular sport… one day as a lion… In this exact scenario it's not a wrestling thing but rather the college athletics structure as a whole. I'm confident at whatever school this is, the assistant coaches at every Olympic sport are paid equivalent salary. My first 3 years in athletics I made 30k and I wasn't a coach. Unless you make it big, college athletics pays you next to nothin, works you hard (my personal record was 112 hour week), and everyone knows you are easily replaceable. It's why there's high level of burnout and turnover. Irrationally proud former WPIAL wrestler No Scotland, No Party . . . Go Beavs
Alces Alces Gigas Posted August 20 Posted August 20 Head coaches at some some D2 & D3 schools aren't well paid at all. 1
1032004 Posted August 20 Posted August 20 7 hours ago, flyingcement said: I hear you, and I know where you're coming from. You value the hard, real path. You've never struck me as someone who thinks everything should be made easier or more comfortable. That's actually why I think this is worth discussing. My concern isn't that $35K isn't a meaningful amount of money, or that someone who takes the job isn't lucky to have the opportunity. My concern is that we're creating a situation where only certain people can afford to take the hard path in the first place. Wrestling has always appealed to me because it strips away a lot of that stuff. At some point, you get on the mat and prove it. You earn your spot. That's the hard and real way. But if becoming a coach requires you to accept a salary that isn't remotely sustainable unless you have some kind of financial cushion, then we're potentially losing people before they ever get the chance to prove themselves. And I know you care about people who are willing to do the hard thing. That's exactly who I'm worried about losing: the person who would give everything to wrestling, but simply can't afford to do it for $35K. That's the hidden cost I'm talking about. For a full-time job (especially requiring nights and weekends), $35K really isn’t a meaningful amount of money… 2 hours ago, ScottishSteel said: In this exact scenario it's not a wrestling thing but rather the college athletics structure as a whole. I'm confident at whatever school this is, the assistant coaches at every Olympic sport are paid equivalent salary. My first 3 years in athletics I made 30k and I wasn't a coach. What year? $35k today is equivalent to like $20k 20 years ago. 2
MoveCountermove Posted August 20 Posted August 20 8 hours ago, flyingcement said: I don't want to embarrass a specific program, because that would be missing the point. I wanted to highlight something I have seem which seems to be part of a broader trend for wrestling, which in my opinion, runs contrary to the ethos of our sport. I just saw an assistant coaching job listed at a figure which was below 35K per year, and required constant travel, and night and weekend availability. This is a troubling sign for me to see. There are high school coaching gigs out where you can also teach gym class and earn tens of thousands more than this. This reminds me of the unpaid internship. In other words, the people who can afford to do this are financial privileged in some way. We are filtering people out who may have more passion and competence than anyone, because they can't earn a living wage. Curiously, and maybe this is a case by case basis, but I’ve seen similar postings at various programs, both competitive and less competitive. Do they take you on at $35k for the position in the wrestling room, then compensate you further for your work in the off season and with the RTC? Because if the $35k salary is strictly from October to March and travel and stuff is comped or reimbursed, and then you make another $35k or more for the remaining 6 months working with RTC and doing international stuff and recruiting, camps, etc…maybe you can see $75k for the assistant to do year round work? I’ve mentioned before some minor connection to Jon Reader, and I saw a Big Ten assistant pay scale maybe 6-8 months ago or so, before Reader left and before or at the time Churella left Michigan. Reader was said to be earning fairly above 6 figures, which tracks as probably one of the most important assistants in college (I know how many feel about Bono). What Reader has said regarding the coaching stuff is fairly simple; he loves the sport and coaching etc., but there is an absolute grind and he felt he was missing his family growing up. He was constantly on the move with coaching and recruiting and stuff and it got to be enough that he valued leaving the sport altogether to be home more often. This kind of mirrors the sentiments I’ve gotten from some other assistants as well, Dave Bolyard for example. You commit your life to the sport
MoveCountermove Posted August 20 Posted August 20 7 hours ago, LJB said: It would not matter… I know personally a rather “successful” monetarily individual who gave a donation to USAW for the express use towards the Greco program years ago… he learned early on it was not used for that… that was several years before his own prodigy had represented the US internationally several times… he refuses to “donate” ever again… individuals must persue this sport for 100% personal reasons… nothing else makes any sense at all… I have to agree here. Everything I’ve heard from donors is that you will struggle mightily to define how your money gets used, unless you take your donation to a legal office and have them help you navigate the AD or the company/entity you are donating too. Once you donate to “USAW” or the AD at your school, that money belongs to that entity and you don’t get a say in how it is used. It’s very sad, in my opinion, for exactly this reason you laid out - he donated with the intent on benefitting others in the sport his son was in and tracking toward. Sensibly, he donated to help make the field and landscape better for his son, and for others coming in his wake. And yet, that money did (likely) very little to nothing to advance Greco. Pretty shady
ScottishSteel Posted August 20 Posted August 20 3 hours ago, 1032004 said: For a full-time job (especially requiring nights and weekends), $35K really isn’t a meaningful amount of money… What year? $35k today is equivalent to like $20k 20 years ago. My initial pay was closer to 20 years ago than it is to today; but less than a year ago I was still in D1 athletics and know the landscape and what entry-level colleagues were getting paid. Time has moved on in multiple ways; including Athletic Departments now paying athletes and that money comes from somewhere including staff salaries Irrationally proud former WPIAL wrestler No Scotland, No Party . . . Go Beavs
ScottishSteel Posted August 20 Posted August 20 3 hours ago, MoveCountermove said: Curiously, and maybe this is a case by case basis, but I’ve seen similar postings at various programs, both competitive and less competitive. Do they take you on at $35k for the position in the wrestling room, then compensate you further for your work in the off season and with the RTC? Because if the $35k salary is strictly from October to March and travel and stuff is comped or reimbursed, and then you make another $35k or more for the remaining 6 months working with RTC and doing international stuff and recruiting, camps, etc…maybe you can see $75k for the assistant to do year round work? I’ve mentioned before some minor connection to Jon Reader, and I saw a Big Ten assistant pay scale maybe 6-8 months ago or so, before Reader left and before or at the time Churella left Michigan. Reader was said to be earning fairly above 6 figures, which tracks as probably one of the most important assistants in college (I know how many feel about Bono). What Reader has said regarding the coaching stuff is fairly simple; he loves the sport and coaching etc., but there is an absolute grind and he felt he was missing his family growing up. He was constantly on the move with coaching and recruiting and stuff and it got to be enough that he valued leaving the sport altogether to be home more often. This kind of mirrors the sentiments I’ve gotten from some other assistants as well, Dave Bolyard for example. You commit your life to the sport That would not include any RTC pay or camp pay which volume would obviously vary by school Irrationally proud former WPIAL wrestler No Scotland, No Party . . . Go Beavs
Le duke Posted August 20 Posted August 20 If a school is paying a wrestling coach $35,000, they likely don't have an RTC that will provide any additional compensation. 1 1
LJB Posted August 20 Posted August 20 4 minutes ago, Le duke said: If a school is paying a wrestling coach $35,000, they likely don't have an RTC that will provide any additional compensation. you might be better served to actually do some real looking into things before making such assumptions... 1
juniorvarsity Posted August 20 Posted August 20 Makes you think how much have the salaries of other administrative roles in that athletic department gone up over the past 15 years. Not to mention the number of new admin positions created over that time in education and athletics. Initial reaction, this seems like a salary that has not changed for a long time - a small amount earmarked for the wrestling team that never changed for a position with high turnover. That's around $16 per hour(using the standard 40 hours). That might work if you're also taking classes for your masters on campus while coaching.
fishbane Posted August 20 Posted August 20 13 hours ago, flyingcement said: This is a troubling sign for me to see. There are high school coaching gigs out where you can also teach gym class and earn tens of thousands more than this. Teaching gym class isn't a fringe benefit there its the main job responsibility. It's a full time gig. Very few high school coaching positions in wrestling even for head coach pay $35k. The additional pay over a normal teacher with no coaching responsibilities rarely approaches $35k. This is also a problem not unique to wrestling. I am sure assistants in other non-revenue sports at this institution are similarly compensated.
GimJustafan Posted August 20 Posted August 20 there is so much to digest in this conversation / and agreed don't want to call out a program but depending on what state we are discussing living on sub 35,000 before taxes is tough to dam near impossible how does the $35 k offer match up to other non revenue earning sport's? at the end of the day college athletics is a business plan and simple whether they are worth it or not you cant offer an assistant coach 6 figures just so he/ she can obtain a better quality of life if you program is consistently in the red to begin with there are D1 head coaches who are barley scratching 100k mark in salary from the school
GimJustafan Posted August 20 Posted August 20 10 minutes ago, fishbane said: Teaching gym class isn't a fringe benefit there its the main job responsibility. It's a full time gig. Very few high school coaching positions in wrestling even for head coach pay $35k. The additional pay over a normal teacher with no coaching responsibilities rarely approaches $35k. This is also a problem not unique to wrestling. I am sure assistants in other non-revenue sports at this institution are similarly compensated. this again speak to what area of the country are we discussing ? while not many HS coaches make $35K / you have many HS teacher's making $100K to do what they went to college using their degree to teach coaching as a career is a niche field to say the least
bnwtwg Posted August 20 Posted August 20 1 hour ago, GimJustafan said: this again speak to what area of the country are we discussing ? while not many HS coaches make $35K / you have many HS teacher's making $100K to do what they went to college using their degree to teach coaching as a career is a niche field to say the least That is disingenuous. You are not including field, years of experience, local cost of living, and more. Of course an AP math teacher with two masters and 30 years of experience in the metro east burbs is going to make $120k. Go to rural IL and you would be hard-pressed to find anyone other than the superintendent making six figures. And hate to break it to you all, but $100k isn't much in 2026. The $100k you have in your mind from three decades ago is actually about $225k presently. i am an idiot on the internet
bnwtwg Posted August 20 Posted August 20 $35,000 per year won't even qualify you for a mortgage. Post-taxes and deductions (if you can afford them) you are living on ~$2,000 per month for housing, food, clothing, equipment to do said coaching, a little thing called bills like water sewage electricity. The boogeyman called avocado toast and a Starbucks latte just became your once a month splurges. Honestly, even a tool like Flo would be out at a $250 immediate upfront cost. And it literally could make you better at your job. i am an idiot on the internet
LJB Posted August 20 Posted August 20 this is a total assumption, but... any assistant at a D1 program taking 35K a year is more than likely provided with housing and food... the assistants making that little are at the very entry level of coaching, but, there are definitely some at Big10 schools making that salary currently and probably considerably more making even less at other programs...
Jackson Lininger Northern York, Pennsylvania Class of 2027 Committed to Slippery Rock Projected Weight: 149
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