US's problem with the Chinese balloon

[Plasmodium]

53 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Did he willing and knowingly allow it? No. Did the right try to make it look that way? Yes. Did they lie? Yes

Fast and Furious anyone?

[Le duke]

This is just stupid and weak. The Leftists tried to make up a story to legitimize Brain dead Brandon's ineptitude and they got caught in a lie. 

Every commander is responsible for everything his organization does and fails to do.


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[uncle bernard]

conservatives are gonna freak out when they learn about satellites.

[El Luchador]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

 

Every commander is responsible for everything his organization does and fails to do.


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Still not  the point they were trying to make us believe. 

2 facts:

#1: Trump was never made aware of it

#2: the left tried to sell the lie Trump knew and did nothing 

[Plasmodium]

4 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Still not  the point they were trying to make us believe. 

2 facts:

#1: Trump was never made aware of it

#2: the left tried to sell the lie Trump knew and did nothing 

What did his administration do?

[El Luchador]

Not what the left tried to sell us on. Those were lies. 

[Plasmodium]

Just now, El Luchador said:

Not what the left tried to sell us on. Those were lies. 

Well, I understand that.  However, this is obviously nontrivial.   It is a failure of his administration that he was unaware.   That is on him. 

[El Luchador]

5 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Well, I understand that.  However, this is obviously nontrivial.   It is a failure of his administration that he was unaware.   That is on him. 

Nice job with the deflection But that was never part of the discussion. The point is the media again tried to mis represent trump. Biden allowed that thing to go all the way across the country and chose to do nothing about it. They tried to make it sound like Trump did the same that was a lie. 

[Plasmodium]

10 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Nice job with the deflection But that was never part of the discussion. The point is the media again tried to mis represent trump. Biden allowed that thing to go all the way across the country and chose to do nothing about it. They tried to make it sound like Trump did the same that was a lie. 

What was his administration's response?  Different from Biden's? I don't actually know but it looks like they just let them float by to rendezvous in their lair on an uninhabited island just west of the Azores.

[El Luchador]

1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

What was his administration's response?  Different from Biden's? I don't actually know but it looks like they just let them float by to rendezvous in their lair on an uninhabited island just west of the Azores.

It's intellectual dishonesty and you're doubling down on it

[Plasmodium]

Without assigning blame or credit, anybody know what the Trump administration's response to the balloons was?

[El Luchador]

https://youtu.be/sSwV7li-duQ

[jross]

Yes Trump was accountable for national security at the time.  He was responsible for the inability to detect.  Given the US already had stratospheric spy balloons, one would think the US could detect the same from other countries.  So that's on Trump and he can own that.

Perhaps the presidents before Trump were in the same situation.  They should own it to.

What's known here is that the current admin knew it was a spy balloon and seemingly managed it poorly.  We don't have the information to understand what thought went into the decision.  Acknowledge and own.

Edited February 9, 2023 by jross

[Mike Parrish]

19 minutes ago, jross said:

What's known here is that the current admin knew it was a spy balloon and seemingly managed it poorly.  We don't have the information to understand what thought went into the decision.  Acknowledge and own.

What should have been done differently in your mind?

Shooting it down over land risked debris falling on people and destroying the payload, which the DoD wants.

 

[jross]

18 hours ago, jross said:

The recent decision to destroy the balloons is questionable as it was done after they had already traveled across the US and over the ocean, which caused the exploded parts to scatter and be damaged by salt water. This could have been handled differently with attempts to bring the balloons down gently on land for payload analysis. If 'engage and destroy' was the right answer, it should have occurred before reaching the mainland.  This raises questions about the leadership's judgement and the information they were acting on.

Repost to answer Mike's question.

Edited February 9, 2023 by jross

[Mike Parrish]

5 minutes ago, jross said:

Repost to answer Mike's question.

So a shootdown in Alaska?

I don't see the Canadians being to keen for US fighter aircraft to drop that on Canadian soil.

[jross]

How much land and ocean was travelled before reaching this continent?  How did it make it to Canada?

The USA is the bully/protector/etc. and Canada could have addressed for themselves or as directed by the USA.

[Mike Parrish]

5 minutes ago, jross said:

How much land and ocean was travelled before reaching this continent?  How did it make it to Canada?

The USA is the bully/protector/etc. and Canada could have addressed for themselves or as directed by the USA.

Here's the path taken by the balloon.
Pick a spot.

 

[mspart]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:37 AM, Le duke said:

 

This is the problem with the entire thread.

It’s a bunch of people who don’t know anything at all about EW, ELINT or COMINT, commenting about how we should be shooting something down instead of using it as an opportunity to learn more about communications architecture, TTPs, vulnerabilities and strengths.

Luckily, people who actually do this stuff for a living are the ones providing advice, and not a wrestling board.

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You do realize that falling from 60k feet into water or the ground ends up roughly the same right?   Falling that fast, water is as hard as the ground and will destroy everything in the same way.    This is why bridge jumpers committing suicide are successful.   Their whole internal organs fail when impact is made. 

mspart

[Mike Parrish]

8 minutes ago, mspart said:

You do realize that falling from 60k feet into water or the ground ends up roughly the same right?   Falling that fast, water is as hard as the ground and will destroy everything in the same way.    This is why bridge jumpers committing suicide are successful.   Their whole internal organs fail when impact is made. 

mspart

I suspect terminal impact of humans vs electronics is different.

[mspart]

You might be right.   But the impact will disrupt and destroy the stuff in the boxes.   Unless the Chinese built it to withstand a nuclear blast.   My guess is they didn't. 

mspart

[headshuck]

They should’ve filled it with fireworks.

[Mike Parrish]

18 minutes ago, mspart said:

You might be right.   But the impact will disrupt and destroy the stuff in the boxes.   Unless the Chinese built it to withstand a nuclear blast.   My guess is they didn't. 

mspart

NAND flash devices in the interior of the device will likely survive.

That's the program store which is important. This will be reverse assembled to investigate software attack surfaces and vulnerabilities.

Broad structure will be apparent, which will tell what types of SIGINT they were trying to gather.

Pieces of antennae will be obvious which will give frequencies.

Reverse engineering the build of the device itself will provide intel on the level of sophistication of Chinese builds and device capabilities.

The DoD/NSA doesn't need to have a running version to extract tons of useful information from this thing.

Landing it in the water means that more of the microstructure(chips, pcbs, wiring, RF elements, etc) will survive intact.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Mike Parrish

[Le duke]

Yes Trump was accountable for national security at the time.  He was responsible for the inability to detect.  Given the US already had stratospheric spy balloons, one would think the US could detect the same from other countries.  So that's on Trump and he can own that.

Perhaps the presidents before Trump were in the same situation.  They should own it to.

What's known here is that the current admin knew it was a spy balloon and seemingly managed it poorly.  We don't have the information to understand what thought went into the decision.  Acknowledge and own.

Read the article I linked.

There was no failure to detect; NORAD didn’t detect it, but other entities did. That’s a hit.


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[Le duke]

You do realize that falling from 60k feet into water or the ground ends up roughly the same right?   Falling that fast, water is as hard as the ground and will destroy everything in the same way.    This is why bridge jumpers committing suicide are successful.   Their whole internal organs fail when impact is made. 
mspart

What about my quote relates to what you wrote here?


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