dragit

I hope not, but sadly this is probably true. He is not as physically able now as he was when he blitzed the US Open, and I think he probably won't get back to that level of health.

Yes - Captain America was - I WANT SOME ICE CREAM!!!

Exactly. He was in a ton of pain, so much so that I recall being really annoyed at the Stanford coaches' incessant yelling at their guy when it was obvious that Ruth couldn't function and wasn't going to be able finish the match.

It's not the OW or who we think is the best wrestler. It's the Hodge Trophy. Parris was the most dominant, most pins, and did it in what may have been one of the two toughest weight classes. If Parris doesn't win then it's not really the Hodge rather just a makeshift OW.

1. Parris 2. O'Connor and Alirez (tie) No other strong contenders. Parris should win. Undefeated, thoroughly dominated a very challenging weight class with a very diverse group of opponents, lots of pins.

Love it. Even that Pitt singlet looks like something from the 70s.

The interview after the 133 final on Saturday was great - Vito was so happy and relaxed with his dad, everything about it was genuine, and it was hilarious when his dad cut in to the recitation of all the feel good stuff about his support system, etc as the reason for his success and laid out the number one reason -- Genetics!

This is a thoughtful post, the speculation is done in good faith and spirit and grounded in a first hand account from a reporter. I tend to think two things can be true at once. He's got a significant injury and was unspeakably disraught. I think the reason for the latter is that after SIX YEARS of knee tears it all got to him and kept him from wrestling how he did in those brief windows he's been healthy. And I think he'd started hitting his stride this year and probably popped something again. Your post made me focus more on the parallels to Gable. Only two guys can really understand this. The coronation that didn't happen. I think of that cringey video where they give Gable the banner and say that the last space is for the last title. In Spencer's case maybe even worse given the Brands comments and his own GOAT show. And this happened to Spencer TWICE!!! Folks that's why they actually play the games.

Yes I meant that literally. I'm truly angry about it, more than about fentanyl deaths and street crime and having to board another flight for another business trip. I won't bother with a detailed rebuttal. I clearly covered the irrelevant point about a specific diagnosis in detail. Sports fans devote many hours and lots of money to their passion. When an athlete and coaches benefit from that, there is an implicit understanding that if the athlete chooses not to participate in competition that is generating that interest, and particularly if there is no competitive disadvantage to doing so (which there isn't when the athlete does not finish the last event of the season), you give actual information, which can be and is routinely done in the absence of a full diagnosis and treatment plan. He hurt his knee. The pain and/or the risk of worsening it is the reason why he isn't particpating with all of the other wrestlers who are competing for spots on the podium. He'll get more tests and figure out how to move on. I deplored the Chael video but it's filling a vacuum that every coach and athlete understands will develop -- it's not like Brands and Lee don't know the basics of media relations, publicity is a big part of what they seek and do on a regular basis (which isn't a criticism, to the contrary it's great for fans and fuels their aforementioned investment of time and money).

Respectfully disagree. My guess is they know pretty well if not exactly what the injury is. One can infer from watching him that one or both of the knees were reinjured. Furthermore one would assume that he saw a doctor before not weighing in Saturday and often the doctor can diagnose. Even if that weren't the case, they could easily say, Spencer is not going to wrestle Saturday. He has a knee (or whatever body part) injury that is too painful to wrestle/could get much worse if he wrestles. He's going to get more tests, evaluatethe situation, and make some decisions. That's not hard. Then we have the basics and people aren't left to speculate why a guy who wrestled Friday night and walked off the mat under his own power didn't compete in an ongoing tournament. To not at least do that is way way outside the mainstream of sports when there is a sold out arena and wall to wall ESPN coverage. It's pretty basic. It's even more of an issue when the athlete is making real money on NIL deals. This has happened before. Marinelli got upset as a top seed and then MFF'd with no explanation. Brands gave a cryptic statement which was so bizarre and evasive that it created the inference that he did not have an injury that precluded wrestling. Which I'm guessing from the few data points we have, including much later statements from Marinelli, was wrong as he had a serious rib injury. But, again, he finished his match and walked off under his own power. They should have just said, he's got a rib injury and on medical advice won't wrestle. Geez i was originally worked up about Cael and now I'm just mad at everybody. Where is the board's curmudgeon prize and why isn't it attached to my screen name?

We do complain about that here all the time. But I think some of us thought that, aside from the factual errors, his post was meandering and disjointed and not well taken with respect to the protagonist of his story, Spencer Lee, who was probably far, far past banged up, and may have been on his fourth torn ACL last weekend. On the other hand, though, I will say as I did with respect to Marinelli a couple of years ago, it would be helpful if the team (or the wrestler, if that's the HIPAA requirement) would simply state what the condition is. Their season is over, so I don't see the competitive disadvantage problem. This is different than McDonough gutting it out and losing on the mat and refusing to name an injury following his loss on the backside; Lee and Marinelli MFF'd, so to plainly state the injury is more relevant, and it also seems to me like it's less of an issue that they're making excuses for why they lost on the backside, since they didn't wrestle on the backside. The failure to give an explanation under the circumstances does create more speculation. In other high profile sports situations, it's pretty well accepted that the baseball/football/basketball player will state why they aren't competing for the rest of the season. Given that the tournament was televised in prime time three nights on the number one sports station and the profile of the Iowa program and the most famous wrestler in the country, it stands out compared to other sports that the public gets nothing.

Mike McMullan took 3rd in 2014 after losing in the second round, and this was after he'd had a bad Big Tens. Impressive gritty performance in a deep and tough 285# field.

Thanks - hadn't seen that. I was going on memory from 2016. He then was saying that he was the best baseball player in New York and many other bizarro things like that and I thought it was weird that he did so much of that while not making a big deal about something that, as I understand it, he used to be very good at.

Back at you on appreciating the discussion. To me, if President Obama or President Bush went to the NCAA swimming, tennis, or gymnastics finals I'd think it'd make sense for them to be acknowledged over the PA and for competitors to shake hands and take a picture. They wouldn't play "Hail to the Chief" (I assume they didn't in Tulsa) or do any of the things that are protocol for the sitting president. But for a non-revenue sport to have a former president come to the final as a fan, and for that to be recognized and appreciated by the organizers, fans, and participants, that's what I mean by respect for the (formerly held) office. And, again, the fact that he was going to go in 2020 before the cancellation informs some of my thinking here. With respect to your last paragraph, it gets to some of the same points as the last paragraph of my post that you were responding to. And that really was brutal when he said (or asked, can't remember) that about Gable. Gable's flat retort without a laugh or smile put it in its place as I recall. But, again, politicians make political calculations. That doesn't detract from the honor that Gable received from the head of state, just like it doesn't detract from knighthoods in the UK. We recognize that the subjective choices behind a subjective award are fallible, but it we think that Dan Gable is a worthy recipient, we're glad he got it. I can name several things Trump did (and other presidents, too) that I was positive he didn't do based on the reason I thought he should have done it, but which I think produced good outcomes, so I take the good outcome when I can get it.

Just watched it again, which I should have done before posting, and will post now without reviewing the rule, which I should also do but have got to get some work done that I should have done the whole time that I was watching and posting about wrestling. I still don't feel good about the call. Yianni's right foot is in McKenna's groin, but Yianni's hips are up at McKenna's shoulder blades, and McKenna is holding him up there with an underhook. I'm not sure I've ever seen a takedown called where someone is behind the other wrestler but is that high and is being kept from having control of the legs or hips by an underhook. You mentioned the Stieber-Oliver match, which is a good comparison since Stieber's takedown in the second period was a beautiful one where he hooked the leg - check that one out, he has the leg all the way in and is behind the hips, as compared to a foot being in and his weight up at the shoulders. "Cringeworthy call" not a good choice of words, though; "friendly call" would be better. I do still disagree with it. And, p.s., watching it again, I have the same reaction as always. The year before, championship match, same situation, Meredith had a lead and attacked Yianni's legs in the last 30 seconds and lost the title in his grasp. Joey (or Tom and J) - watch some tape!

I'm going to argue with your points to a degree but think your post is very well taken. Particularly with respect for that office, I think we've always felt that its former occupants were entitled to a degree of "respect the office not the person" as well, since they were not only the head of government but in our system also the head of state. 100% agree that a president's scandals or bad stewardship or bad behavior is fair game, both in and out of office, and that Trump's conduct between election day and inauguration day sits very high on any such list, and I would further point out that he has uniquely persisted in the conduct that he is criticized for during his post-presidency. But if he goes to a public event and keeps his mouth shut and doesn't perpetuate said fair game behavior when he's there, I'm fine with him being recognized over the PA and the participants in the event shaking hands with the former head of state for the U.S. if they choose to do so, and think that such a choice is appropriate under the circumstances. This former president has a track record of respecting the sport, something I appreciate even as I note the irony that, in my opinion, the people like Dan Gable and Jim Jordan whom he has praised and whom in turn speak well of him have the sorts of personal characteristics that he hasn't shown.

I truly respect your views and think they are well put and wouldn't bother disputing that the president in question smashed for the worse many norms of comportment. But lots of people think that presidents ruined their families' lives with what they think were indefensible decisions about all kinds of things, including wars and draconian crime bills. Where is the dividing line when a president is treated as per se not deserving of the respect we give other occupants of the office, when they are at a public event and behaving appropriately. All sides are in a bad spiral of per se judgments about politicians on the other side of our fence that isn't helping people on either side of the fence.

One of my favorite lines was when he said he was the best baseball player in New York when he was in high school. I couldnt believe the interviewer didn’t break down laughing on the spot. The strange thing about it is that with all the stuff he brags about that is ridiculous, by comparison he doesn't do that much about golf, which others, including real golfers, have said he was very good at when he was younger.

It should be noted that he was going to go in 2020 before covid canceled the tournament last minute and without any indictment looming. Nobody really knows why anyone does anything. Are the choices of politicians influenced by political considerations? Yes, that we do know, but we don't withhold respect for the office (or in the case of POTUS the former office) based on that inference, or not being able to ascertain the full calculus of motives. And I haven't heard anyone report that he comported himself inappropriately or with the unfortunate frequent bluster that bothers so many and is the cause of many of his problems; in fact, it sounds like he said nothing over any sort of microphone, politlely acknowledged an intro over the PA, interacted with people who interacted with him, and watched ten terrific wrestling matches. Under these circumstances, I don't find disappointment with any winners shaking hands with the former president on their special night.

Former president showed respect for the sport by attending and viewing all the matches, they in turn showed respect for the office if not for him.

Good argument but I gotta still say Penn State. The only thing their lightweights don't compare well to is their heavy weights. With all the kidding around about their issues at 125, Megaludis was 2-2-3-1. RBY did great, and furthermore he developed quite a bit at PSU. Same thing with Nick Lee, like RBY he had two titles with substantial growth (HAT TIP TO WKN). And I'd say Zain is pretty comparable to Yianni. He won three championships and two Hodges and beat Stieber the year he didn't win NCAAs. He totally dominated his three wins, Yianni needed a cringeworthy call to win his second. And they've been about equal internationally. Nolf is technically a lightweight. I'd say that if not better than Cornell at the light weights, they're awfully close, and then their upper weight dominance is otherworldly.

Interesting topic. I think the answer is 1. Penn State; 2. Cornell. Then a gap, possibly Missouri third. I'm skeptical about the premise that the only thing Cornell has to offer financially is a scholarship. Ivy League schools can offer massive financial aid and wrestling is obviously very important to the school, so I wouldn't be surprised if lots of their top wrestlers end up paying comparable amounts out of pocket (none or not much) as they would at Michigan, Northwestern, or Stanford.

I don't see 4 seconds at 45 degrees or less. The rule is 45, correct? It seems to me like in many matches they don't call it the way it's written, in other words they often do swipes even when the angle has gotten above 45. This was a good example of that to me (with respect to the replay decision). I am a fan of Gibbons but I thought he was wrong here. I thought that Rivera did a good job on this and shouldn't have been overruled. I think that 45 may not be a good rule, but it's the rule, and I think it's not faithfully enforced.

The decline of western civilization part 853.

Thank you thank you thank you for this. After five minutes I was alternating between laughing at how ridiculous it was, and not being able to take it anymore. It was so bad on so many levels that it's not worth unpacking them all. Suffice it to say that the factual errors you mention were just the tip of the iceberg - the real outrage was the absurd judgments and comparisons he made and the oversimplifications of an extraordinarily complex situation involving a human being who put his heart into the choices he made which didn't work out well this week. One hopes that he has better luck going forward, on the mat if the knees haven't made that impossible, and off the mat where his substantial drive and intelligence will present many opportunities.