dragit

1. Love everything you wrote. 2. I have no problem with Starocci starting season as #1 on any P4P list, he's totally earned that based on a record that includes beating a number of champs including while injured. 3. But I strongly believe that, if Steveson is serious and trains properly, no one is close to as good as he is in college. All respect to Kerkvliet, but he isn't close. That's really a statement about Steveson, not Kerk.

Let me first say I think Starocci is a beast. I was just s flippant in a previous thread that Ferrari wouldn't have a chance against Starocci. And I think Starocci will finish with a better college career than Steveson. Five titles trumps all and he'll probably get them. But Starocci ain't as good a Wrestler as Steveson, nowhere near. Since you brought up freestyle, Steveson has an Olympic gold medal and hasn't been in danger of losing a domestic match in I can't remember how long. I didn't make any argument about Starocci not making the team but the fact is that up to now he never would have been a favorite to do so, whereas Steveson uses world team qualifiers as takedown clinics. And with respect to college Steveson has two Hodges to Starocci's zero. And same thing, never in danger of losing since his double brain farts as a freshman. How many people think Steveson won't win in March if he is training seriously? ANYONE?

At wrestling?

Thank you. This is quite a strange situation. There is zero evidence that Flo passed along something given to them on the condition that it was off the record. Instead they specifically said they didn't get it from the principles. Yet it is being labeled by them and the vast majority of posters as a "mistake" to have reported news that was of interest to wrestling fans. The criticism one would expect would be for trying to restrict news, not for disseminating news.

Putting aside the wishy washy nature of his stayenent, I really don't understand the point of it. He says they had the story and made a mistake by publishing it. He also says they didn't have the intel from the wrestler or his family or his program or the college, or that anyone had told them this information off the record on the condition that they not use it. So why was it a mistake for a wrestling news website to alert its readers what it had learned?

Exactly. And he makes good money doing it which he is totally entitled to do. And we get to see him wrestle a lot of televised matches. And hopefully he gets in the groove with the sport and does at least one full quad of freestyle. Or does everyone who is bored by this think our freestyle team was so good this year that we couldn't use the help?

Totally agree. Would have gone with a HALLELUJAH response emoji if there was one.

100%. As has been obvious for quite some time. This is what he is good (not good, incredible) at, and the only rational financial move. Reminds me a little of Michael Jordan. He is the transcendent best at one thing and isn't good at anything else but insists at trying them. Although he isn't a jackass like Jordan about it. He left a lot of money on the table with the Olympics, but he is still young and apparently needed to work through a process -- but he finally got to where he inevitably had to get. Thankfully so!!! If he can find and hold his motivation he can accumulate some real wealth while accomplishing true greatness.

Love your optimism but even in the extraordinarily unlikely event that he stays on the team and even wins a national championship -- without seriously competing in years and following a season practicing in a room with one victory in a mediocre conference tournament -- it won't be a landmark for a region that has had poster boy recruits like Robles, Valencia, and Griffith as well as other champs.

Speaking of which, why in the world wouldn't Steveson come back? Big money one would assume from NIL. No apparent other way for him to earn anything close. He's going to, right?

Emphasis on "at most"

If he wants to keep wrestling and can afford to, of course it's his preference. Whether he can be successful and make world teams is another question. The last match over the weekend shows why that's unlikely. He just wrestles very conservatively in important matches and invariably the opponent makes something happen and beats him. There is only one reason to think this might change -- a good year with the new coaches, if they can find a way to get him to open up. Maybe Taylor's example on the mat could trigger something and maybe Taylor's coaching could get him the confidence he needs in the key situations to score.

It's complicated. The Jordan comparison is interesting. I do think that Burroughs has some similar uber-competitive traits which are a big part of his success, and that that includes using perceived slights as motivation. I'll also say that I'm not a giant Burroughs fan, I was rooting for Marsteller, whose travails I find compelling. And I'm not crazy about some things about Burroughs -- the head clubbing, not a gracious loser, etc. I also disagree with the notion that he is the GOAT over John Smith. But nothing he does is anywhere near being outside of a normal and acceptable range in the extraordinarily competitive and high stakes world he inhabits. To boo him or show anything but the highest respect for his achievements and for his life is bizarre to me. He is not a complete jackass like Michael Jordan, who has no ability to control himself even years after retiring from competition (someone mentioned cringing at Burroughs statement about Starocci's knee; if you want to cringe yourself into a seizure watch and try to make your way to the end of the absolute embarrassment that is Jordan's Hall of Fame speech). He has always been completely candid about the zero sum game that is competition for the one spot on a world team, and he makes no bones about his view that he has to beat people on the mat to provide for his family (he's an earnest family man). This to me is way more valuable to the fan to hear than platitudes. He trains like hell, he fights through major injuries, and he supplements his physical skills with as good a mental game as there is in sports. Plus he's further contributed to the sport as a knowledgeable, insightful, and well-expressed announcer who can adapt to a range of broadcast partners from Jim Gibbons to Cormier. And I have no way of knowing for sure, but it's possible that his success in the early 2010s helped contribute to a surge of top wrestlers of color in recent years. If he wants to be a little ungracious and not stay above the fray with Messenbrink's antics (a guy I love watching wrestle) and be a little over the top in his interview with the it's me vs the entire institution of Penn State wrestling when it was mainly one guy who was way over the line, I got no problem with that if it helped produce the viewing pleasure of the clinic that Burroughs put on this weekend at age 36 against a strong field.

Lot going on with the Penn State thing, which seems to have started at the NCAAs with Starocci and then blew up in the arena at OTTs. I'm on his side, my view there was nothing wrong about what he said about Starocci as a potential competitor -- it gave insight into his competitiveness, which sometimes rubs people the wrong way, but should be understood for what it is and what it has produced: An extraordinary wrestler and an extraordinary man. All American wrestling fans should be grateful for his presence in and contributions to the sport.

Give the people what they want!

Well put

A four time what? Transfer?

I suppose if Ferrari could make the finals that his loss to Starocci could be interesting but mainly because it would be so surprising that he made the finals.

I'd put him at closer to 1 in 10 without Starocci in the field, and in the Washington Generals range against Starocci.

Don't worry about it. I believe the research suggests CTE comes from repetitive hitting. Training camp and a little practice squad work shouldn't put him in danger.

Just a remarkable person.

He is a titanic intellect. Tempered by his great respect for others' views and his ability to disagree and argue in good faith. And the ellipses punctuated such an effective writing style . . .

OK I'll imagine that. 20-25 points at heavyweight guaranteed. Potential high finisher at 197 if everything goes exactly right. But the more likely range of outcomes is somewhere in the range of mid AA to different guy wins the spot to gets thrown off the team to gets thrown in jail. And with a very high probability of hurting team morale under all scenarios.

I think the best athletes in the world (top tier at their sport plus athleticism) are probably Carlos Alcaraz, Jalen Ramsay, and Mookie Betts.

People, Gable Steveson is not going to play in the NFL. He knows it and if he doesn't then the NFL does. Hopefully he will wrestle again. I expect he will. It's the thing he can make the most money doing. It's also a noble pursuit with respect to which he is the best in the world, whereas he will not be particularly good, let alone great, at anything else he does. That is not an insult; instead it is a commentary on how good he is at wrestling.