dragit

To answer that question I suggest you consult your own prior reference to the definition of insanity.

Potentially stupid but good faith suggestion: Given the back and forth and your pessimism about affecting change in this forum, should someone petition the board to split international into separate freestyle and Greco forums?

You're welcome. I appreciate the response and won't offer much in return except for a couple of thoughts. First, from the videos I watched, I'd say any opportunities you had "to strangle him along the way" were just that -- along the way. Should have done it when you had your chances, which as a practical matter are long past Second, and again, respectfully, I'm wondering if some of your most passionate posts jibe well with your last sentence, i.e., the posts come off as if their targets matter too much.

You can add me to the millions of views, I just found and watched some matches and interviews of Otto. Super impressive, you can and should be over the moon proud. Truly. In utmost good faith, and, respectfully, maybe just enjoy the ride and let HIS journey, which I believe is going to be beautiful, play out without dragging his life and accomplishments into arguments with people YOU can't agree with.

I don't think our athletes in soccer (or Greco) are horrible or anywhere near that. They're definitely outstanding. Just not as good as the very best, who are playing other sports because the incentives line up that way. Because soccer isn't as prominent and there aren't big money opportunities in the U.S., the best American athletes play shortstop and center field like Bobby Witt and Pete Crow Armstrong, and wide receiver and cornerback like Tyreek Hill and Jalen Ramsey. Those positions are very much skill positions, and my thesis is that if guys in the U.S. with that kind of athleticism were incentivized to play soccer since they were small, they'd pick up soccer skills and be the best in that sport.

I do not, like most people who follow wrestling. I don't follow Greco at all, like most people who follow wrestling. Unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that this doesn't help your argument at all. Due to this inane message board conversation, though, I for the first time in my life other than watching the Blatnick and Gardner gold medal matches, paid some attention to Greco and ran a google search to see how the U.S. has fared in the sport. Good Lord: One (1) (the number between zero and two) gold medal by the U.S. in Olympic history in a year when the actual good Greco countries wrestled. I had no idea it was so bad. You're sitting here ripping people in thread after thread for their ignorance of how amazing Greco is in the U.S. and how it's just getting the shaft when we have zero history of success to build on? But Alex Dieringer once told you in a verbal conversation that he thought Greco was great, so you've got the ultimate trump card. Here's an analogy based on current events. What are the two big sporting events right now? World Cup and Wimbledon. The U.S. sucks at soccer. Why? Simple: Its best athletes don't play soccer. They play the major sports, which pay a lot more money and are a lot more enjoyable because, you know, you can use your hands. In other parts of the world, the best athletes play soccer because that's where the money and fan interest is. We aren't good at Greco because our best wrestlers don't participate in Greco just like we aren't good at soccer because our best athletes don't play soccer. Which is why most wrestling fans don't follow Greco and why soccer lags way behind the major sports in fan following in our country. Just watch the tennis. Novak Djokovic is probably the best athlete in the world, maybe tied with a couple of soccer guys (though they don't do a fraction of what he does in a match). Alcaraz, Nadal before him, Auger-Aliasime -- athleticism coming out of their eyeballs. The U.S. men can't compete at their level, and you can tell by the naked eye that it's because they don't have the athleticism that those foreign tennis players --and Bobby Witt Jr. and Pete Crow Armstrong and Patrick Mahomes and Saquon Barkley and Lebron James -- have. The only top U.S. male tennis player who is a great athlete is Ben Shelton, who plays because his dad was a pro and is a coach. But he played a lot of football when he was younger, specialized too late, and won't ever be able to match the top foreigners. We haven't had top athletes with top level speed and strength and coordination compete in mens tennis since Sampras and Agassi. U.S. women do very well at tennis, though, because great U.S. women athletes like Coco Gauff (amazing speed, conditioning, and competitive spirit) play tennis, because there isn't any money in the major sports for women. Why did Richard Williams have his uber athletic daughters play tennis not basketball or something else? Because that's where the money is for women. Get serious. This isn't complicated. No one here has animus toward Greco, and I 100% think it's great that kids who do it have such devotion and love for a grueling and noble sport. But you're just baiting me into a simple google search and laying out some basic facts.

You continue to make the points both much better and much more efficiently than me, this time with a perfect analogy.

This really isn't fair. At least 5 different programs tried to give him a shot at wrestling over 6 years. You're giving up on him here when he's just getting started. He may have been allegedly committing crimes for a while, but with respect to the narrow question of evading surveillance, the relevant issue here, he's a novice. He should be granted the same patience as the wrestling programs gave him before you write him off.

Again responding to a post that had zero animus against greco, and was descriptive not pejorative while just stating an obvious truth, with the usual: a weird obtuse question, a personal insult (same one used over and over) with a gif, and a bunch of misplaced ellipses.

This and the following posts are perfect encapsulations of this and other similar threads. There are actually very few people in these discussions who say mean things about Greco, but anyone who tries to make a nuanced point that doesn't toe the weird, weird Greco line to the hilt is talked down to with obtuse, personal attacks sprinkled in with emojis . . . and . . . ellipses . . . as I was . . . when I made a version of your argument above before . . . The truth is that your post is factual and exactly correct -- indisputable, in fact. And it makes its point diplomatically, when it could have been more direct about pointing out that Greco in the U.S. is generally a route that one would take when you realize you aren't good enough to win a college folkstyle or senior level freestyle national championship, but you might have a shot in Greco, just like in a lot of communities people who know they're not good enough at baseball to make varsity seek out weaker competition and switch to lacrosse so that they can make a team and play. . . . . . . . . .

While all it takes is one, my bet would be that no school would bite anymore. It's possible a coach would, but every coach has an AD, and what AD would allow this for a non revenue sport? The domestic violence details have elevated him past where he was before, which was that anyone with a brain and a moral compass wouldn't touch him, but those without both of those could talk themselves into it. Doubt anyone could invite this catastrophe in for dinner anymore though.

Technically I think he was arrested again. But it looks like your point is true in that he was arrested for criminality that was previously known (violently assaulting a pregnant woman who may be his fiance and carrying his child) and that the article isn't about a different prior alleged crime. There is something new in here, though, in that they allegedly had to use surveillance to catch him, and that he allegedly actively tried to evade the surveillance, demonstrating that as his wrestling career and life as a citizen has atrophied, he is allegedly showing solid development and growth as a committed criminal. If you're going to be a wild young adult who gets popped by law enforcement and learns from the experience you don't want to live like this, you don't need the evasion skill. But if you're going to keep being sought by the police in multiple jurisdictions for an array of serious crimes, you've got to put some work into avoiding arrest because you need the escape skill in addition to the crime committing skill. Previously he would just allegedly drive a 100 mph with cops on his tail while endanger the lives of countless people. While a useful skill, that's not sufficient. Thus the article says the police allege he slipped into a car driven by a woman. (Port in a storm? Good luck to her. ) Definitely more subtle than a high speed chase, although he does appear to need to work on his skills. The article says that, while surveilling, "Around 10:42 a.m., they observed a woman leave the home and get into the driver's seat of a pickup truck. A short time later, investigators said Ferrari was seen crawling out of the garage and getting into the truck's rear passenger seat." Obviously an intelligent (not in the cards) or experienced (he's working on it) criminal would do it differently -- have her bring the truck into the garage, get in the trunk or lie on the floor of the passenger compartment, then have her drive out seemingly alone. But I do think the effort shows he realizes that he needs to work on his current craft -- as if it were a deadlift being taped for a social media post -- and I am hopeful for the future.

Don't disagree. Was trying to be conservative.

That this guy is an unmitigated embarrassment to the sport and shouldn't be on a college roster had been obvious since at least the Soldier Salute. He's also a danger to whatever community he is in at a given moment, which is why I'd respectfully suggest that any further defending this guy, even indirectly about side issues like his religion, is misplaced. People need to forget about him as a wrestling figure and Focus on hoping that his inevitable journey through the prison system produces better results for society than his current disastrous trajectory.

I would think his phone locations would be strong evidence. And how about fingerprints on the steering wheel?

When and where did I detract from greco? My post explicitly says that I don't think that the lack of emphasis on greco is a commentary on the merits of the craft. Whereas you constantly denigrate everything other than greco as leg grabbing or whatever phrase you use between your oh so precious ellipses . . . because it wasn't what the Greeks did with their pointy sticks. As if baseball isn't a real sport because the Greeks didn't play it. Or modern basketball is terrible because there's no peach basket. . . . . . .

Not sure what you mean. The specialized sport here is greco, which is far different from folk (the form of wrestling dominant in the U.S.) and free (which is a relatively seamless transition from folk, hence the high correlation of success from top college guys to senior level free). But of course you play the card that the hoi polloi on the message board have no business sharing opinions and conversing because they are not among the "few." Probably we should have to pay to watch a podcast or buy a book that explains this rocket science to us, the great unwashed.

Not sure what you mean. The specialized sport here is greco, which is far different from folk (the form of wrestling dominant in the U.S.) and free (which is a relatively seamless transition from folk, hence the high correlation of success from top college guys to senior level free). But of course you play the card that the hoi polloi on the message board have no business sharing opinions and conversing because they are not among the "few." Probably we should have to pay to watch a podcast or buy a book that explains this rocket science to us, the great unwashed.

It seems to me that the lack of emphasis on Greco isn't based on the merits, including whether it requires athleticism, and more on the fact that almost all participants in wrestling participate in folk, which has a lot of overlap with free and much less with greco. And with respect to fan following, most fans come to know wrestlers they follow from televised college matches, and then those guys go with the style more like folk (free) when they go pro. It's not a disdain for greco. It's just an easier path for freestyle.

It seems to me that the lack of emphasis on Greco isn't based on the merits, including whether it requires athleticism, and more on the fact that almost all participants in wrestling participate in folk, which has a lot of overlap with free and much less with greco. And with respect to fan following, most fans come to know wrestlers they follow from televised college matches, and then those guys go with the style more like folk (free) when they go pro. It's not a disdain for greco. It's just an easier path for freestyle.

He does but query whether he has the capacity to benefit from it.

p.s. Manning should be thanking his lucky stars that AJ didn't kill anyone. If he had Manning as a state employee would never have lived down bringing this literal mortal danger into the state.

A lot of mainstream outlets, including TV, covered the arrest, so his first post-prison on camera interview next year or 2028 should be epic. He'll just have to decide how to parse it out -- press conference vs exclusive interview vs his own podcast. And his 2029 NCAA tournament low All American redemption interview is already creating anticipation.

Watching the NCAAs as an old person I started to wonder if some 15 year old was going to just storm in to my office and take my job. Nice to see the geriatric set do so well yesterday in a terrific day of wrestling. Lee. Was very happily and pleasantly surprised by his performance. Did give up another upper body big move but not on a brain fart like he has a lot recently. And to see him being the one to come back from an early deficit was quite the plot twist. I think/hope he'll have great confidence for Worlds. Zain. Has made himself into as good a freestyler as his college beast self. Such a terrific guy that maybe he gets taken for granted sometimes. It's a bummer that he doesn't really have an Olympic weight but it's great that there is a weight he can compete at 3/4 years. Green. Another wonderful guy. He is wrestling fantastic without the weight cut. Didn't get deterred at all by the shock loss. To dominate the center of the mat like that for 18 minutes against a quality opponent is pretty impressive. Dake. Wow. Just wow. He looked just too small in the first match and then got some natural light and vitamins and was 27 years old again the next two matches, you could see it literally from the first second of the second match. It reminded me of his two Olympics when he was flat in the semis and then made his adjustments and came back hard for the bronze matches. Luckily this time he could lose one without losing his chance to be a champ. Snyder. Same as Green, didn't wallow or whine in the shock loss and came back and took care of business. He is so good on his feet, every match of his is a positional instructional video. Congrats to all of them.

That's good. It's important for someone at your level to take proactive steps to stay grounded.