Winners Circle

Before the match started I am sure they were 100% confident he would win, yes.

Yes I am sure they, in no way shape or form, saw him losing that match. Which is why it was a massive upset.

I am 100% sure that the PSU staff knew Starocci would beat Griffith. I am certain they are 100% sure he will win every time he takes the mat. Right, and he DID NOT duck Coleman in that match.

When/where did I say the higher ranked dude can't duck? I'm just saying the three examples given (Spencer Lee, Starocci, and Brooks) are inaccurate. Those three guys have never been scared to wrestle anyone.

Spencer Lee didn't duck anyone, and neither did Starocci. The result of the match is not what's in question here. It's whether or not a 4x NC ducks people.

That seems a bit generous for them...

I wouldn't fight you on that. My point with the floor guys is that I think they will make a difference because I think it'll be that close. If you're going straight champs I don't think OKST has any, but Hamiti has the best shot. Hendrickson will score champion type points though. I think Iowa has three realistic shots (Ayala, Teemer, and Buch), but I wouldn't pick any of them. I agree Keuter is very underrated. But to say he is a safe bet to AA, I need to see more. He's not beating Hendrickson, Kerk, or Gable. So there's only 5 spots left. He already lost to Yonger. If you told me he lost to: Ghadiali, Feldman, Trumble, Schultz, or Slav I wouldn't be surprised. Of course it's made up criteria. We're talking about NCAA's in December. Lmao. Intermat has Spratley ranked #3 and Jamison #4. Average rank #3.5. Ayala #5 and Parco #4. Average rank #4.5. You may be right here. I just hedged Block/Petersen seeing as how they both lost to Iowa State backups. Quality backups, but backups nonetheless.

Last year in the regular season Starocci wrestled Welsh & Kennedy (both of whom were ranked top 10). Teams they dualed that he did not wrestle against: Michigan, Michigan State (same road-trip), and Rutgers. Do you think he ducked DJ Shannon and Jackson Turley? That's a genuine question, no sarcasm.

I am in no way shape or form a PSU fan. In fact I actually root against them a lot because I think parity is good for college wrestling. But I'm just saying that I don't think Starocci or staff were scared of Griffith. Just like I doubt Brooks or staff were scared of Brooks. And I think it's ignorant to say otherwise.

Touch fall***

You think 4x National Champ, and won his most recent title on one leg (and beat Griffith), ducked someone? You're reaching here.

I think I'm on an island by myself (or few others) here, but I've had OKST number 2 since preseason. My rationale is this: 125: Spratley is top 6ish points. Petersen wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 125 133: Witcraft is bloodroundish points. Ayala is top 6ish points. Adv OKST through 133 141: Jamison is AA points. Block wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 141 149: Young win 2-3 matches. Parco is AA points. Adv OKST (small one) through 149 157: Fish is low AA/bloodroundish points. Teemer is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 157 165: Amine is low AA/bloodroundish points. Caliendo is 2nd points (with heavy bonus). Adv Iowa through 165 174: Hamiti is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Kennedy/Brands is AA points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 174 184: Plott is 3rd points. Arnold is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 184 197: Surber is low AA/bloodroundish points. Buchanan is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 197 285: Hendrickson is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Keuter is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 285 OKST heavy hitters: Hamiti (bonus pointer), Plott, & Hendrickson (bonus pointer) OKST contributors: Spratley, Jamison, Fish, Amine, Surber Iowa heavy hitters: Teemer, Caliendo (bonus pointer), & Buchanan Iowa contributors: Ayala, Parco, Kennedy/Brands, Arnold, Keuter Both teams have 3 heavy hitters (near locks to be top 4) and 5 contributors (5th-bloodround). When I look at the heavy hitters, OKST has two bonus pointers and Iowa has one. When I look at the contributors, I think OKST has 1-2 (Spratley and Jamison) that could exceed expectations and Iowa has 1-2 (Ayala and Parco). To me, it's razor thin but comes down to bonus and OKST's "floor guys" (Witcraft & Young) have more upside than Iowa's "floor guys" (Petersen & Block).

Not saying you're wrong. I just genuinely can't think of one example where they ducked.

Can you provide examples?

I think Duke redshirts year 1 and starts year 2. But yes I agree. But like I said it literally has not happened to this point. Could it change? Obviously. Especially in a transfer heavy world we're living in. But they've done a great job keeping everyone happy to his point.

In my opinion, they are going to #1 and 2 regardless of who wins. In other words, I don't see either of them losing to anyone besides the other, and I see both of them winning their conference. So I don't see it benefitting or hurting either to sit. Could be way off there.

Fair point. I'm not here to say one way or the other. But I was just referring to KC's question about what the odds are that PSU run's a backup out there against KOT. They may do that, but it won't be because of a duck in my opinion.

I am not being sarcastic here, so I hope it doesn't come off that way. But I don't think PSU typically ducks matches. Not many instances come to mind. Am I wrong on that?

Agree with your point. But what's interesting is that PSU really hasn't had many really elite guys transfer out due to lineup issues. Suriano transferred out but that wasn't due to lineup issues. Beard would be the only one I can really point to who was elite (AA or better) that transferred out. Barraclough may join him this year. Negron, Nevills, Brandon Meredith, and Verkleeren all transferred out but were far from elite. In fact seems to be the opposite, guys want to transfer in.

Aaron Nagao should be. I don't think he'll wrestle anyone on his level.

I live 10 minutes from Francis Howell HS. They don't have any top recruits.

How I felt trying to read this...

Yes. Penn State's backup 133 having a season ending injury opens up the team race. If the other teams don't get them now, because of this, they'll never get them.

Correct. There's a 0% chance a guy who goes to Penn State, made the finals last year and lost in the second to a guy who he previously beaten, wins a title this year. Absolutely no chance.

I may have misunderstood. I thought I needed #1-10 seeds, and THEN an US. But Seems like half of us took the instructions one way and the other half the other way.