fishbane

You're right about the time since he cut Carr, but to be fair he was trying to score up until maybe 15 seconds. I don't think the announcers or anyone else thought he might not know the score until 15s. On the other hand if he had been fully aware he may have been attacking like Vito for 50s.

He is far behind Gable in AAs. He could surpass him but it would be in more years of coaching even if you limit Sanderson's sample size to just PSU years. As you pointed out 20 for 20 in Big Ten title will be a tall order and her certainly won't be able to do it in his first 20 years like Gable. Gable had 15 team titles in 20 years. Sanderson has 11 in 18 years. If you remove the COVID year it's 11 in 17. If you remove the ISU years it's 11 in 15. If you remove the ISU years and the COVID year it's 11 in 14. Can't get 15 in his first 20. He could get 15 in fewer than 20 years at PSU.

Cael has coached wrestlers to 40 individual NCAA titles. The most by a coach is 45 by Dan Gable. PSU could return 3 national champs (Haines, Starocci, and Kerkvliet), 2 runners up (Bartlett and Mesenbrink), 2 third place finishers (Kasak and Van Ness), and another guy who was the top seed at NCAAs this year (Davis). They could start the year with 4 top ranked wrestlers (Haines, Messenbrink, Starocci, Kerkvliet) and two number 2 ranked wrestlers (Bartlett and Kasak/Van Ness). Bartlett has beaten Mendez the presumptive number 1 at 141 to start the year and Van Ness has bested Henson the presumptive #1 at 149. They should have at least 6-7 title contenders and Lilledahl, Nagao, Barr, and a Mirasola could add to that next season. Could they actually be better next season? Does Sanderson catch Gable in individual national titles?

Redshirted last season at Cal-Baptist.

The difference between 5th and 9th was only 6.5 team points. They didn't do that much better. Not a whole lotta difference between 2 and 10 this year.

I had a little different theory. I instead of a late score update causing Mesenbrink thought it was tied taking into account riding time, I thought Messenbrink saw a tied score and forgot the riding time point. Mesenbrink has not had a close match all year and has not had a riding time point scored on him in college. He's never been in a match when riding time mattered. He saw the score was tied and simply forgot that the point was pending. That's my theory.

Did Vince Cornell miss weight? He was the 24 seed, but there was no pigtails at 141 and her isn't in the bracket on track.

I think you are missing some context for this. Clark won his NCAA title in 1998. Though the weights would officially change up 7lbs the following season wrestlers were given a 7 pound allowance for the remainder of the season after the deaths. So on day 1 of NCAAs that year Clark had to weigh in 184. Not sure if they had to make flat weight for multiple day tournaments in 1998 or if he would have had a 2lbs allowance for the last day, but gaining 14-16lbs by the finals is a little different than gaining 23lbs.

The 7 pound change happened in 1998. That was because multiple wrestlers died cutting weight that year. How is that related to 5 guys missing weight at NCAAs 17 years earlier.

What happened in 1981? How did 5 guys miss weight?

It would seem like they are unwilling to negotiate with a club wrestling program either. https://www.reddit.com/r/wrestling/comments/1bgug0k/dartmouth_college_not_allowing_wrestling_club/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Joziah Frey wrestled at Campbell for two seasons as a redshiet/backup. He won his second D3 title over the weekend. He is 72-0 in two seasons of competition in D3. His only loss in that time was to Luke Stanich at the Princeton open.

Brennan Swafford won an NAIA national championship in 2020 after finishing 7th in 2019. He transferred to Iowa where he was never the starter. He wrestled part of three seasons for the Hawkeyes before being suspended for gambling. He might have been the 184lb starter this season if not for the gambling suspension. He generally lost to top 25 type guys and his best win was probably Julien Broderson. Might have qualified for NCAAs if he was ever the guy at the end of the year. In the 2022 season he wrestled both Jared Stricker (UW Eau-Claire) and Zane Mulder (Wartburg) at the Luther Open losing to Mulder and beating Stricker. Those two wrestled in the 174lb D3 final this weekend with Stricker beating Mulder. In 2023 they also wrestled in the final, but with the reverse result. In 2022 (same season they wrestled Swafford) Mulder was 4th and Stricker DNP losing in the R12. In 2021 Mulder lost in the final. Mulder was a D1 transfer from ISU. He went 2-4-1-2 in four seasons at Wartburg and was 83-6 against D3 competition. This season Swafford defeated Bentley Schwanebeck-Ostermann (Augsburg) via MD at the Luther Open. Bentley Schwanebeck-Ostermann won D3 NCAAs at 184lbs last weekend in dominant fashion. This 4 wins included 3 TF and 1 MD. He outscored his opponents 59-3.

The wrestlers that transfer from D1 down to D3 do so for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they are backups from bigger programs sometimes smaller. Other times there are off the mat issues. Duane Bastress current head coach at York College started out his career at Bloomsburg. He was the starter as a true freshman in 2002 and went 17-15 at 165. He did not qualify for NCAAs out of the EWL. He transferred to York College and in three seasons (2004, 2005, 2006) he went 97-6 and won two national titles. In 2006 there were two D1 transfers in the final at 157lbs. The champion Joe Pflug was top recruit in high school and committed to Ohio State. He transfered to Heidelberg where he wrestled two seasons finishing 1st and 3rd. I don't think he ever took the mat for the buckeyes. His opponent was Jeremy Anderson of Augburg who was a transfer from Minnesota. Anderson I don't think he was ever a starter for the Golden Gophers and placed 2nd and 1st in two seasons in Augsburg. David Morgan initially started his career at Pitt. I think he spent a year there and they wanted him at 125 which was probably a too big of a cut. He transferred to kings where he went up to 133. He went 86-7 over three seasons finishing 6th once and winning two national titles in 2007 and 2008. Marcus LeVesseur also transferred from Minnesota to Augsburg. I think one of the reasons for his transfer was so that he could also play football. He was an undefeated 4x champ at Augsburg. Brent Rider transferred from Virginia Tech to SUNY Cortland. I don't think he was a starter at VT and they weren't a top 24 team back then. I three seasons he placed 5th (2002) and 6th (2004) at D3 NCAAs. Rocky Mantella was a starter at Indiana as a true freshman in 2002. He went 0-2 and did not qualify for NCAAs. Off the mat issues lead to him leaving Indiana after one season. Some years later in 2009 he resurfaced at Del Val College and lost in the national final. Ricky Laforge was a national qualifier for Hofstra at 133lbs in 2003 earning the 10 seed before going 0-2. He may have lost his starting spot by the time he transferred to Del Val for his final season of eligibility. He lost in the 2007 D3 141lb final to Quincy Osborn of Augburg. Osborn was a transfer from the University of Minnesota where he had also qualified for NCAAs. Orborn was a D1 qualifier at 133lbs in 2004.

Is Mekhi the last wrestler to take Starocci down in NCAA competition?

I'm quoting the NYT here "In granting the players employee status, the regional director hearing the case, Laura A. Sacks, ruled that the six pairs of basketball shoes (valued at $200 apiece) given to players each season and the two to four tickets that players are provided to each game for their family and friends served as compensation and thus place the players under the college’s control. She also ruled that another form of compensation is access to the “early read” admissions process because of their value as basketball players." So I think compensation is a key component and that the NLRB ruled that they had been compensated. They also ruled that they were employees because of the control the school had over the players and how the work was performed. I am sure Dartmouth's appeal will argue that they are not in fact compensated. I read that the basketball and football players at USC are trying to get a similar designation by the NLRB so that they can unionize. They are attempting to argue that they are employees of USC, the PAC-12, and the NCAA. The later two might have been added to try and work around the government technicality that thwarted an unionization attempt by athletes at Northwestern some 10 for so years ago. In Carter Starocci's recent interview he definitely talks like he works for Cael/PSU. "He's the boss man. I work for him." Not sure if he is pushing to unionize the crew in Happy Valley and is using that language deliberately or he is just naturally talking that way because it reflects the same reality that the NLRB found in the Dartmouth case.

You sound like Flo. It wasn't free on PCN, but it was no additional cost to millions of subscribers. Most of the viewers that watched on PCN were subscribed for other reasons and watching PA states was a bonus. And saying there is a cost is one thing, but the actual costs are quite different. PCN was part of basic/standard cable at Comcast, which on its own is more than Flo, but no one was subscribing just to watch the PA State finals. I am sure the portion of your bill allocated to PCN was far less than Flo's $30/month subcription. I don't even think ESPN gets $30/month. At $30/month Flo is one of the costlier streaming services. The only way someone gets to watch States for free as a bonus is if they just so happen to subscribe for one of the other niche sports streamed by Flo which is unlikely.

I dunno. I think he says wild stuff like that because he knows it won't happen. I also don't think he could beat the other 32 guys in a 3 day period. He barely wrestled 32 matches in two years and now he says he will do it in 3 days? In reality he wouldn't need to complain Cael and PSU would do it on his behalf.

"Don’t even have me seeded," Starocci told reporters in State College on Wednesday. "Just have me wrestle every single kid in the bracket one by one and I’ll take them all out inside three days. That’s the same plan. I think it’s more enjoyable this way." If the brackets came out like that do you think he would have complained? Or would he have been stoked?

Only his 4th. One of those years at VT was 2020. No tournament

He was on the mat for 2 seconds in his second match. I'd prefer an injured returning national champ or AA in a bracket than the alternative which would be a wrestler ranked something like 29-34. The last man in is essentially replaceable from the fan/competition perspective. It is annoying when the guy doesn't wrestle at all and screws up the bracket, but an injured wrestler is an unknown. Was it Willie that last year had called out Killian Cardinale and being too injured to wrestle at NCAAs and then he went and made the podium?

_

It looks like he is making steady progress. Was able to wrestle twice as long in his second match.

Zalesky isn't an elite coach today, but he was in 2006 and he elevated the program at Oregon State upon his arrival. He took them to a pair of top 10 finishes and won 7 PAC-12 titles in 14 seasons, which was 6 more than his predecessor managed in the same number of years. You're kind of splitting hairs, but only if it favors Brands. Iowa had fallen behind Minnesota and Ok St. - so it was the 3rd best program? And after Brands worked his magic it is now the 2nd best program? I can scarcely believe the turnaround. How did he ever manage to turn that ship around? It was headed aground for sure! The ability to take the 3rd best program and transform it into the 2nd best program really is the difference between an elite D1 coach and a D2 hack. Seriously, Iowa being the 2nd best program is really only true over the entire course of Brands's tenure. They have been firmly behind PSU from 2011 onward, but they were looking up at OSU from 2013-2017, Ohio State from 2015-2019, and Michigan more recently. For whatever reason when Iowa has fallen behind these teams under Brands Iowa fans are more likely to classify it as a natural downturn that all programs experience than a dangerous trend that requires change.

I agree, but it is closer than many think. Zalesky had a pretty good 9 year won and winning 3 titles probably gives you a job for life just about anywhere. If you look at the 26 season's since Gable's retirement during which there where 25 NCAA tournaments Zalesky's 9 year run at Iowa is probably the 5th best 9 year run and that's cherry picking the best 9 consecutive year period for each of the top coaches. That's not band and 3-5 is pretty darn close. To me the takeaway isn't to fire Brands, but that Zalesky probably didn't deserve to be run out of Iowa City like he was. You have tried to frame it like Zalesky had favorable timing and Brands did not, but I think that Brands had favorable timing too. He was an assistant at Iowa and left in 2004 ahead of a particularly good high school recruiting class for the state that was graduating in 2005. Of the top recruits in the state he got 3 out of 5 - Borschel (Brands/VT), LeClere (Brands/VT), Morningstar (Zalesky/Iowa), Mueller (Douglas/ISU), and Slaton (Brands/VT). Brands probably had eyes on the Iowa job and saw this as an opportunity to grab those recruits and jump start a program. Hurt Iowa/Zalesky and get him closer to his goal. Had Brands and Zalesky been on the same page Brands probably helps recruit those guys and Metcalf to Iowa City, as was his job before he left in 2004, and they all start enroll at Iowa in the fall of 2005. Iowa likely comes out of one of those natural down periods all programs goes into and wins the same titles in 2008-2010 that they did under Brands. Heck maybe they even win it in 2007 too, since 4 of them wouldn't have to sit out.