fishbane

1) Who is Alvarez? 2) Gibbons didn't say the ref should not have repositioned. 3) Nothing was easy to see and the referee made several errors in the sequence. It is very difficult to figure out what he was doing. First the referee was seemingly confused the wrestlers colors. He awards the first set of NF as 2 to green. These were supposed to be for Woods who was red. Then they get to their feet and he says still green. He is seemingly still confused as I assume he means to say that Woods is still in control since he has that body lock, but again Woods is red. Next comes the throw and he holds up two for red for the takedown and starts a visual count. Only problem is that it should be two for Green - Alirez is green. He never puts the two fingers down on the red hand he used to award the takedown so it is unclear later whether he is holding two NF or just still has them out from the takedown. He counts two visually with swipes then the third visual swipe comes albeit slower than the first two. Then he puts that hand down on the mat to balance as he repositions himself. Then after he takes he weight off that hand he looks to be winding up for a 4th swipe but stops as the position has changed. It's unclear whether the official intended to stop the count before the reposition because he thought NF criteria has been broken or he intended to just get a better look and was using poor technique. I believe this to be Gibbons's point. In real time the broadcast team is confused and initially Rock Harrison says 4 NF for Alirez. Watching it back several times, it seems that at some point after the reposition the two fingers on the red hand the ref has had up since awarded the takedown become two NF points he's holding and he saying something like "you've got two." However he doesn't immediately award them and holds them after NF criteria is broken and probably the lock too. He finally awards them after he calls action out of bounds and only now does he get the colors straight changing the points to his green hand. I completely agree with Gibbons here. The rule requires a verbal count and visual "whenever possible." The verbal count is required and the visual count is not. It is fine for the referee to reposition himself to get a better look but if the wrestlers position has not changed the verbal count should continue throughout the repositioning even if a visual count is not possible. It appeared to me that the referee intended to continue the count after repositioning and not start a new count and this would have resulted in a longer 4th swipe. That said decoupling the verbal count from the swipes on the fly in a high stress situation is not easy. So while it is easy to see the visual count had stopped that does not say why it was stopped (poor technique causing the count to be delayed - Gibbons's point or change in NF criteria) or if a verbal count continued.

Can be a 4xer? Possibly The next 4xer? Probably not. Both Brooks and Starocci could do it next year and it would take Keegan O'Toole at least two more years. So to get him to be the next 4xer you gotta look at not only the probability that he wins two more but also the probability that neither Brooks or Starocci win one more before he can do that.

Ramos, O'Toole, Keckeisen, Starocci and Kerkvliet still have two years left. Though not finalists this year Daton Fix, Shane Griffith, and Mehki Lewis all have one year left. Ridge Lovett and Cohlton Schultz both have two years left.

4xer Micky Phillippi RS-RS-R12-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-R12. Lost to Sam Latonia (6) in the R12. 1st ever. 3xers Max Murin RS-R12-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-Top 6. Wrestles Kyle Parco in the cons Semis today. 2xers Anthony Artalona R12-Inj./COVID-COVID/Ivy-R12-NQ. He went 0-2 and finished a 2xR12 Josh Humphreys R12-NQ/COVID-Inj-R12-Top6. He wrestles Ed Scott in the consi semis today. Jared Franek RS-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-Top 6. He is in the consi semis today and will face Peyton Robb. Zach Elam R12-RS-R16-R12-Stop 6. He is in the consi-semis today against Cohlton Schultz.

Going into Friday night both Murin and Phillippi still have a shot at 4xer status. Who wins? Who looses? History could be made. Micky Phillippi RS-RS-R12-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-NQ/going for 4. Phillippi wrestes Sam Latonia (6) in the R12. Max Murin RS-R12-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-NQ/going for 4. Murin is in the R12 and wrestles Chance Lamer (22) in session 4. 2xers Anthony Artalona R12-Inj./COVID-COVID/Ivy-R12-NQ. He went 0-2 and finished a 2xR12 Josh Humphreys R12-NQ/COVID-Inj-R12-NQ./going for 3 He is in the semifinals and has a guaranteed top 6 finish. Career 2xR12. Jared Franek RS-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-NQ/going for 3. He is in the R12 and wrestles Vinny Zerban (32) tonight. Zach Elam R12-RS-R16-R12-NQ/going for 3. He is in the R12 and wrestles Colton McKiernan (12).

Here is the match -

The older brother Nathan had a less than standout high school career for a national champion: 31-13 overall, 2-6 as a senior, never wrestled in the PIAA postseason. Now a 2x D3 champion that has not only lost 0 D3 matches the past two seasons, but also has given up 0 TDs, 0 NFs, and 0 reversals to D3 wrestlers over the past two seasons. He was also 6th at the 2022 Midlands where he lost his only matches in that time period. http://www.pa-wrestling.com/hs/teams/bethcatholic/athlete_stats.htm?id=84404

Yeah that's essentially what I found looking at old brackets. JMU having dropped their program doesn't have much in the way of records available on the internet. He was R12 his last two years. His sophomore year he lost in an early round and there was not full wrestle backs. The fact that there were not full consolations for a large period of time and that freshman couldn't compete for a different somewhat earlier large period of time probably means that if there ever was a R12 4xer that individual probably wrestled in the past 30 years.

I had thought of Justus the other day for this. Looked it up and he was RS-NQ-R12-NQ-R12 so he was only a 2x R12. His RS Junior year he was the #1 seed and went 1-2. Both times he lost in the R12 he lost to the eventual 8th place finisher. Another 184lbs from that era Nate Patrick of Illinois was also a 2x R12 finisher. One year he was Big Tens and was seeded as high as #2.

Artalona was injured mid season in 2019-2020? It looks like he wrestled in two duals.

Didn't he also win his first NCAA title without an ACL?

Below is a summary of some multiple R12 wrestlers. Missouri seems to excel in this category. They have 10 qualifiers this year with 6 R12 finishes by 5 wrestlers. 4xers None? 3xers Micky Phillippi RS-RS-R12-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-NQ/going for 4 Max Murin RS-R12-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-NQ/going for 4 Pat Pitsch RS-R16-R12-R12-R12 Dave Kennedy RS-Backup-R12-R12-R12 George DiCamillo R12-RS-R12-R12-2nd Taylor Venz RS-4th-R12-NQ/COVID-R12-R12 2xers Anthony Artalona R12-Backup/COVID-COVID/Ivy-R12-NQ/going for 3 Josh Humphreys R12-NQ/COVID-Inj-R12-NQ/going for 3 Jared Franek RS-NQ/COVID-R12-R12-NQ/going for 3 Zach Elam R12-RS-R16-R12-NQ/going for 3 Jake Sueflohn NQ-R12-R16-Med RS-R12 Cash Wilcke RS-R12-R12-R16-Backup/COVID Mark McKnight R12-R12-RS/Transfer-R16-4th David Terao RS-NQ-R12-R12-4th Dan Valimont RS-R12-3rd-R12-2nd

He is probably the closest so far. He was R16 as a freshman in 2005. R16-R12-R12-R12.

Cash Wilcke was somewhat close. RS-R12-R12-R16-Covid. Covid didn't really cost him anything as he was beat out by Assad.

I think he wasn't that close. He went 1-2 as a freshman-R12-R16-Medical-R12. Only a 2xer R12. I thought David Terao was going to this ignominy as a senior when he spoiled it with a 4th place finish, but I misremembered. He was 1-2,R12,R12,4th. Mark McKnight was also somewhat close. R12-R12-Transfer/redshirt-R16-4th and that 4th place finish, like Terao's, was somewhat of an unexpected run.

Has anyone ever accomplished the unique achievement of sending the season in the R12 at NCAAs 4x? Two wrestlers could get it done this season. Micky Phillippi RS-Med/Transfer inelligible-R12-COVID-R12-R12-? Max Murin RS-R12-COVID-R12-R12-? This year Phillippi is the 9 seed with a crazy difficult draw to the semis Teske, Nagao/Henson, RBY. Meanwhile Murin is the 8 seed in a similar position. He has Burgos in the first round, but Milner is his likely 2nd round opponent. Milner beat him last year in the R12 8-1 en route to a 6th place finish. Should he get past Milner he will likely face Yianni D. in the quarters. Do you think either of these guys make it 4x R12?

I think a 6 seed is someone generous for Kennedy but you are correct that he was unlucky given those seeded around him. He has only lost 6 matches in the past two seasons. One was to Bull, his erstwhile teammate. One was to David Carr. The other 4 are all in his quarterfinal bracket at NCAAs (2x Hamiti, 1x Hall, 1x Formato). So he has a guy that beat him in the first round. In the second round he has Amine who is a returning AA and an above average 11 seed albeit someone he beat at Big Tens. Then if he makes it to the Quarters he likely has Hamiti who has defeated him twice, but possibly Peyton Hall who has also defeated him

Is that an A for Starocci and Brooks or A minus? It seems like it is A minus, but you may have just changed format for these two individuals. Previously and subsequently you had a period after the grade and all minus grades did not have a space after the letter. These guys don't have a period and there is a space between the grade and the - so I'm not sure if this is a minus or a dash.

He was also a transfer of sorts from PSU. https://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/history/index.php?view=wrestlerstats&wrestler=489

Jones is the oldest ever NCAA champion. He was 27 years old when he won the title. No idea of the oldest AA.

Back to the topic at hand Couture was about 3 months shy of his 29th birthday when he lost in the NCAA final to Mark Kerr.

That's fair. July I'd count with high school too.

Ah yeah. For whatever reason that 1977 junior world title wasn't showing in Lewis's database entry. Not sure when in 1977 that tournament was contested, but junior worlds at least in recent years are held in the October-November time frame. I think in October 1977 Lewis would have been in his first semester at the University of Iowa. So it perhaps is a little unfair to include that in high school accolades if it was in October/November 1977 and possibly after Lewis had already represented Iowa in competition. On the other hand Lewis would have turned 18 in June 1977 so he was a fairly young college freshman. Still I would count something he did after graduating high school and starting classes in college among high school accolades. On the other hand Storley was comparatively older when he graduated high school and turned 19 the September he started at Minnesota.

Storley won a junior world title? Which year? I don't see his name on the list linked below, nor was it in his entry in the UWW database. The only thing there was 8th place at the 2011 Junior World Cup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cadet,_Junior,_and_Espoir_World_Champions_in_men's_freestyle_wrestling

Wrestlestat has him at 95. If he wins NCAAs that will be 5 more. Consolations will depend a little on when you enter them. If he loses in the semis then 3rd is the only way to get to 5 Ws. If he loses earlier he can win 5 with a lower placement.