scourge165

Ok...but which one?

125-DNP 133-1st 141-4th 149-Rd 12 157-1st 165-Rd 12 (I really have no clue here....this weight is just so deep. I just think it's too easy to see Facundo losing in the quarters and then seeing a stud on the backside). 174-1st 184-1st 197-4th HWT-1st I've been arguing Haines would win it since last year...provided Carr goes '65 and he did, so I'm not gonna jump off that bandwagon now. Of the 5 Champs, I think Brooks, Starroci, RBY, Kerkvliet and Haines are the most likely, in that order to win it. I'm a little surprised people are picking against Brooks. Less so that they're picking against RBY, but I think his loss was a fluke. But...that's why this tournament is so great. It'd hardly be shocking if any of these guys lost...or, if a vet like Dean can find a way to repeat or Bartlett can manage to get to the finals and win it.

Yeah, that kid is...NOT lacking confidence! I kinda like it. I also like how the kid headed to Iowa is calling him out. You can't be great without that level of confidence...you probably don't need to articulate it at all times and I personally preferred the manner in which Starocci's current head coach conducted himself on the mat, but when you win, you get to talk a little more.

I'm not shitting on Greco. I think all Wrestling, especially at the highest levels if incredible. I just think one is less incredible...and I'd have kept that to myself if not for just obnoxious bloviating by someone...again, I hate to hammer this point, but who NEVER Wrestled! LOL...the nerve to talk shit about how superior one style is and you've NEVER competed? Yeah, I AM having a little trouble with that. Having any respect for that opinion. That's ballsy IMO. Go tell Snyder or Stevenson they're competing in the Women's style, the soft style...they're not tough because they're not Wrestling Greco! As for Rutt...he was a stud. But when you come up with examples about how GREAT and superior Greco is using the NCAAs, you need to do a little better than going back a decade for a 1X AA. I'd have gone with Schultz personally, but even then, he not only got smoked by a Freestyle Wrestler because he was just a MUCH better athlete, but HWT's is the one weight that tends to favor Greco with the handfighting and how few people like to shoot and get under a HWT. You'll still see guys like Kerkvliet, Snyder, Gwiazdowski win 9X out of 10 when matched up with a Greco guy, but Christ, it's better than having to go back to Travis Rutt to make your point.

So what? THEY ARE! They literally are...he wants to be a Gyno...which I'll grant you, a bit odd for a HS student, but not gay. Also, My GF loves watching Wrestling, she's huge FB fan, BB fan, super laid back...she's cool. She was also athlete in College. She combines the best things I like about Women(a BIG one of those is not actually having the penis and testicles and being women...by the definition we've used up until about 26 months ago) AND she's not exactly one of the guys, but that shit is always overblown anyway. Why do people need to search this shit out? Turn on literally ANY shot today and it will touch on every LGBTQ issue, drug abuse, domestic violence, white privilege, toxic "sis" males, everything. It's like a check list. They need someone for wardrobe, for continuity, for social issues of the day. Stop assigning these ridiculous meanings to past movies and or songs as well. I mean, it's not the same thing, but this is the same type of thought process that went into the ridiculous "banning" of "Baby it's Cold Outside," because it's "rape culture."

LOL...his "ultra flexes?" I don't remember that. I remember him I remember watching this movie every year with my team in HS(which...I guess is SUPER gay). See...I just thought it was a way for our coach to have a little pizza party, some team bonding and get ready for the stretch run of the season. How naïve I much have been! I'll go with the other guy. Sometimes... you spit just because you've got to spit. I...I'm not gonna take the bait on this one.

I don't remember Rutt getting "knocked out" vs Heflin and I don't get why this is SO important. So what? You say this like it somehow makes any relevant point since you brought up Rutt, the 1X AA who wrestled...nearly 40 matches his last year at Wisconsin and ~140 in College. But his career was plagued by concussions? Ok. AND? I didn't shit on Greco until someone started talking about how masculine it was and how superior it was to the "women's style." As I said...I had the most success in Greco. It's just a silly argument and coming back with basically, "nuh-uh," doesn't really sway me. I'd think if it was SO much more difficult, you'd find more guys who focus on Greco in the off-season...ya know, winning National Titles rather than citing a guy who took a 7th in...what, 2012? And then claiming this guy who wrestled more matches a year than anyone is now had a career "plague" by Concussions? Your assertion that my assertion is false is just false.

Rutt wrestled 4 full years and got a concussion in his final match at the NCAAs on the backside of the bracket. Pretending like he had a Austin Gomez type career(had he not come back) is disingenuous. I don't understand how pointing out that John Smith(or Kyle Snyder who I mentioned) who won in both Freestyle AND Internationally while in College supports the argument that Greco is the superior or more "masculine" style of Wrestling... And why don't Wrestlers "wind down their careers with an easy run in Greco?" I don't even know how to answer such a stupid question. Why don't Professional Baseball players "wind down" their careers playing Softball? Or again, like I said, why don't they dominate at Folkstyle if Greco is so superior and so much tougher and they're so much more masculine? But really, and this is the important point, who said Greco was EASY? It's still Wrestling. I said it was EASIER. See that distinction? Benching 300 pounds is EASIER than 400 pounds, right? Does that mean 300 is easy, right? I know this can get complicated at times, but...work with me. I believe you'll get there bud!

LOL...what are you talking about? "The only one bringing up a 6000 year old Earth are the ones who claim a monopoly on scientific knowledge." Really? So creationists? Most of the last White House? Pence, Carson...? And "in all your[my] scientific theories? Dude, you're a clown who's now letting his emotions from prior discussions spill over. I said I don't know how they come up with the age of the Earth and they should probably teach that. That's pretty much all I said. Are you telling me that there ISN'T a large portion of the population that believes in a creationism and a 6,000 year old Earth? Because, again, the last White House publicly stated that on numerous occasions? https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaenamontanari/2016/11/10/vp-elect-mike-pence-does-not-accept-evolution-heres-why-that-matters/?sh=47686eac15a7 https://www.livescience.com/59972-why-scaramucci-is-wrong-about-earths-age.html https://news.gallup.com/poll/261680/americans-believe-creationism.aspx https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/09/ben-carson-creationism-six-days/ Huh...you may actually be right;

He did qualify it with IF Lee falters. That seems like a long shot to begin with, but damn near impossible if Glory is injured. Hope he's healthy because I really think he could put together a nice game plan for Lee. A smart match and Glory's size, plus you factor in the full day after his last weigh in and that Spencer's gas tank isn't great right now. Glory would have to get through that 1st period without giving up points, go Neutral and then hope to be able to win it in the 3rd. I wouldn't bet on it, but I'm guessing a whole PA State Tourney Crowd would have said the same his Sr year.

Kinda feels like you're making my point for me. Rutt was a 1 time AA I believe(could be mistaken). I know his career ended in the NCAAs from an injury default in that delicate sport we call Folkstyle Wrestling. Deitchler wrestled a couple years and never got past open season. Certainly didn't dominate College athletics despite being an Olympic Wrestler. Mango was a very good College Wrestler. Again...not quite what you expect from the best in the United States as the superior style of Wrestling. You'd think given how much more masculine and just how much tougher they are, THEY'D be the ones dominating. Not those guys who wrestle the Women's sport like Kyle Snyder, Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, David Taylor... I could go on...but why?

I don't know exactly, but it's not an insignificant number. The last White House publicly stated 6,000(actually, 5,500 to be exact). I have several relatives who do. One who's in Naval Intelligence(and...he's pretty highly ranked) and he believes as much(though neither he nor any of the others would refer to it as a belief). That's anecdotal, but you can Google the polls. They seem to range from 38% to 45%.

Yeah, I don't know how they come up with 4.5 billion years. People smarter than me come up with an approximate age...and when you're talking about ~4.5 BILLION, I understand the skepticism. I don't believe that the Earth is 5,500 years old and the Earth is billions of years old demands equal credence however. Teaching how they date isotopes and shit like that...that's probably what they should teach. But the idea that it's 5500 years and we were walking around in the Jurassic period is silly.

LOL...again, you come to this opinion because of the sports origins(so you've said). They originally oiled themselves up...and Wrestled Naked. So...maybe stop with the "it's more masculine" talking point as it's kinda at odds with your entire rationale for why it's the superior style. As for those being "gifted the ability to understand," I understand just fine. I had more success in Greco than any other style(though HS) because...it was easier. I took 3rd at World Team Trials in HS in Greco, I was an AA in Fargo. I understand what Greco is. So please spare me the "we just don't get it," nonsense. I get it. I was better at because...for one, generally, the BEST Wrestlers generally just wrestled just Freestyle. For a second...it's better for guys who are physical and good at hand-fighting, but it takes more explosive ability to Wrestle Freestyle...and frankly more skill, flexibility, athleticism. Just advocating for your favorite style would be one thing, but it's comical to disparage the other styles...and you've never stepped foot on a mat in ANY of the styles. That's the part that's really funny. Not just advocating for Greco, doing so at the expense of Freestyle and Folkstyle. Especially since if those two went away...so too would Greco. So I guess I've "outed myself." Not sure what I'm "outing," but...I'm fine being placed in the "pile to the left," of people who don't think Freestyle is "Women's Wrestling," or you're more of a Man if you Wrestle Freestyle. I'd also ask if Greco is so superior and so much tougher and they're so much more masculine...why can't Greco guys have more success at the College level? You have elite Wrestlers who can't cut it in College, but end up in the Olympics in Greco(usually guys who come out of HS with incredible credentials)? For instance, you'd think a guy who makes the Olympics in High School at Greco(the most masculine sport) would be pretty dominant in College, no?

No...you don't need to have Wrestled Greco to have an opinion. I would expect you to have ACTUALLY at SOME level Wrestled if you're going to have strong opinions on what style is "masculine" and which is "women's wrestling." That's...just asinine.

No, apparently I'm not. ' I DID catch that he's never actually wrestled and yet he calls Freestyle the "Women's style," in what's clearly a demeaning way because Greco was the original style...back when they oiled ya up and you Wrestled naked. So...yeah, he's thrown down a lot that I haven't picked up.

I took it more as a "there is no way the age of the earth is in anyway possible" just 6,000 years old as Religious Doctrine would have you believe.

He was at 134 his Jr year when he won it in a weight with Ironside. Not at 42 until his Sr year. He'd beaten Jaworsky 3 or 4 times that year, but just in going back and watching the grainy video(with someone in Kolat's group yelling, C'MON CARY, DON'T YOU EVEN WANT THIS...which...SUPER effective when trying to get a Wrestler to win in OT!) when he was SOOO close to a TD in OT in the Semi's. But RBY didn't get to Wrestle his Soph year. Maybe he wins one. He lost to Gross 6-5 and then Seabass. Could just have easily have won it that year. Of course, there's a WHOLE lot of close calls. Kolat was 2 late match reversals away from being a 4-timer. Even making the giant assumption that RBY does win that weight and he's already got 3(so he's got his 3 in his 4 chances without the extra year)...I'm still taking Kolat. By the way, I'm sure most knew, but I was unaware that Jarowrsky started at Okie State with Fried and Owens during Pat Smith and then just ahead of Guererro. Gotta imagine that's why he transferred. What an incredible room for lower weights that would have been. Smith still active, a 3X Champ, Fried and AA's above and below. Anyway, just an after thought.

No...he didn't. It obviously should be, but that was a very clear point of emphasis that year, one repeatedly articulated to the coaches and athletes. You have work up/ get your head out. They showed that EXACT scenario in the coaches meetings and that was not a TD...that year(not, very clearly a TD). Again, looking at it now, that's obviously a TD, but Stieber knew what the rules were...and so did Smith. If Smith didn't know that wasn't a TD, you don't think he'd be going nuts on the refs? That...was very much NOT a TD that year. Oliver sat there for...what, 8-9 seconds with the ref saying nothing(maybe he didn't hear) and Stieber just holding on for dear life. Oliver needed to work up above the knees or get his head out and he did neither.

Yes, having some actual Wrestling experience while talking about which style is the toughest is the EXACT same as...having Wrestled abroad for team USA! That...that one got me!

No, but I've never seen him score THAT easily and then gas THAT quickly. Maybe it's not an injury. Maybe it's just life. DeSanto just finished College. Garrett is an adult, living life. It's brutal to stay in wrestling shape. I always laugh when I hear about Basketball shape or whatever, but Wrestling shape...it takes you MONTHS to get in it...and that's if you're in great shape to begin with.

Interesting ideas and I get the impetus for them after that PSU-Iowa duel, but two things. 1-Matchup's like that are ALMOST never that dull. 2-It kinda gives the bottom guy or the inferior wrestler an out. I'd prefer some smaller tweaks. You hold the ankle for 5 seconds, it's a stall. So don't let a guy just hook the ankle all match. Call stalling on top more if guys aren't trying to score. Just smaller tweaks. But I see the point. Starroci should NOT be riding a guy like Brands escaping with a 2-1 win.

You're taking away a weight class in the middle and adding two weight classes that...aren't quite as exciting(202/212). I get the idea of building for Freestyle, but you have to adjust your weight every level you go(unless you're a 125 your whole life). I'd be in favor of adding 97KG, but that's not a big enough spread from 197 LB for me. But you're taking away a 149LB National Champ so guys are more well adjusted to their weight cut for the next level. That doesn't seem like it should be the priority for College Wrestling. Something to consider, but not the priority. A National Championship is the pinnacle of the sport for many. I also like getting to see matches like Lee vs Yianni in Freestyle, but that's probably not the strongest argument.

Just seems like when you're scoring THAT easily and you get to 10-2...you just suck it up and you put everything you've got into that next TD. That was such a one sided match it didn't look like DeSanto had a chance. I watched it a few days ago, but I actually thought he had the tech. DeSanto got two on a move I thought Garrett initiated when DeSanto was in on a shot(I may not be remembering correctly). That lack of conditioning has to be the result of some type of injury or something, right? He looked so much bigger, cleaner, finishes so easily. And was done in ~2:30. Credit to Austin JAMES DeSanto though. The one thing that kid is not is a quitter. Wrestled his ass off

Are you shitting me? I kinda go into this with the assumption that we've all got...at least a HS level background and wrestled some...I don't know, if not Fargo, some Freestyle and Greco. Hearing what "real wrestling" is now is...that much more incredible. Glad he thinks Freestyle is a 'worthy pursuit,' or however he put it! That's just...subjective. I'd Wrestle both styles. 12-14 matches in a weekend, beat to hell...it was great. But Greco was always easier...IMO, because it was mostly just hand-fighting and then when you did get on top, it WAS easier to turn. Now, I wasn't blessed with truly elite athletic ability. I couldn't hit blast doubles like JB or scrambled like Dake, but...at the HS level I could work inside and won a lot more in Greco than Freestyle. I just couldn't imagine Wrestling it daily as I thought it was boring. Was Jordan Holm tougher than...I guess it'd be Taylor or Cox? I'll be honest, I haven't checked since I saw HOLM made two straight Greco teams which...to my mind, debunk the ENTIRE "it's the toughest" argument, but whatever.