jdalu75

A document you really need to see is this one, beginning with Pg 13: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/2024-25D1MWR_PreChampsManual.pdf In the PreChampionships Manual, the Subjective Criteria section (pg 13) has this sentence: "The committee may also consider the following subjective measures to supplement established selection and seeding criteria:" So yes, it's not just seeding. I see the split in the Quality Wins criterion, and I agree they can be split. But they don't show what's needed for the split. Regardless, if the two wrestlers tie then they split the points, otherwise the guy who gets more QW points get more comparison points. One table that's definitely worth looking at is on Pg. 6 of the Slideshow. This is the only place I've ever seen the actual RPI calculation results shown. Normally all we see are the rankings. It's from the 125 class in, I think, 2016. The RPI column shows the results, which range from about 0.55 to 0.699, rounded to five decimals. The result is 0.55167 for the 27th rank, 0.55162 for the 28th rank. That's a difference of 0.00005; if an error is made anywhere in the data entry, a match that should have been included wasn't (like if a default in a November tournament is instead entered as a forfeit), the change in an RPI will be as much as 0.005. I ran some trial hand calculations a few years ago and found I could easily shift the guy ranked 8th to 4th, or vice versa. It probably doesn't matter much for the top 10; but how about for the guy ranked 29th, the guy who didn't make the field?

Also, beating a quality wrestler multiple times counts as just a single QW, your source is correct. I never understood that. If you beat the same guy twice you get credit for two wins, right? So why not ....

Page 7 lists the criteria just to get into the at-large pool. That's the starting point and it's absolute. With Page 8, it's more involved than just the criteria shown. It works the same way as seeding. Wrestler A is compared to Wrestler B using those seven criteria. Win a criteria, earn points. If A and B haven't wrestled, then no one gets the 25 H-H points. Whoever has the most quality wins gets 20 points. Whoever has the higher CP ranking gets 15 points. And so on, then total up the points. The wrestler with the most points in that comparison earns a point against the whole field. Then move on to Wrestler A vs Wrestler C; repeat the process, winner earns a point. A vs D, winner gets a point. When Wrestler A has been compared against all the others, move on to Wrestler B and compare him to C. Continue until all the wrestlers have been compared, one at a time, to all the others. At no time are all the wrestlers compared as a group. It's all one guy against another guy. If there are four available at-large berths, the four wrestlers with the most points receive them and the guy in 5th place is the alternate. A couple of years ago the NCAA came out with subjective criteria, and I believe they just apply to the at-large process. Here they are (they're not in the slideshow): SUBJECTIVE CRITERIA The committee may also consider the following subjective measures to supplement established selection and seeding criteria: ● Bad Losses ● Outside the top 30 CR and/or 30 RPI ● Conference Champion ● Performance in last five matches ● Number of Injury default or medical forfeits wins/losses ● Best quality win ● Wrestler availability (injured or medically unable to compete) I particularly like the "bad losses" criterion. Years ago when I was sifting through this stuff for the EIWA, it struck me that they rewarded quality wins but didn't penalize clunker losses. Now they can. These apply to both at-large selection and seeding criteria (Obviously. Conference champs aren't in the at-large pool.). I hope this helps.

Army had three. On the other hand, Drexel had two EIWA runners-up who didn't get at-larges.

Diego Sotelo of Harvard, alternate at 125, is in the Ivy League.

Maybe they're actually checking their numbers this year, before releasing ....

Correct. Seeds tomorrow evening. Where the full list of 330 shows up is anyone's guess. The pre-allocated spots were announced on the NWCA site, not the NCAA's.

Eight bouts are needed for a winning percentage.

The EIWA uses an algorithm for seeding. Crookham will not be seeded in the top few due to lack of points in the algorithm.

I looked him up a couple of days ago. In 2017 Baughman was 3rd at 125 but didn't get a spot at NCAAs. In 2018 he was 2nd, but again didn't get a spot. Finally, two years later he finished 3rd at 141 and qualified for NCAAs ..... and the tournament was canceled. Somehow, must be my lefthanded way of thinking, I'm relating this to Ryan Crookham's situation. If you have the chance to go, you should take it because you don't know what next year will bring.

Just looking at collegiate competition -- Mike Frick and Mark Lieberman, who could be considered the best collegiate wrestlers at the time, were both pinned in duals; Frick by Army's Jack Schoonover, Liebs by Syracuse's John Janiak. Just two weeks apart, come to think of it, in 1975. Darryl Burley was never pinned. Neither was Mike Caruso, who remained the only 3x EIWA, 3x NCAA champ until Dake (3/4) and Yianni (4/4) came along.

Funny .... almost the same thing happened in last year's dual. Rutgers won the first bout, Penn won the next four, then Rutgers won the final five.

I asked that question, and evidently they do. Kind of odd that matches wrestled while on an ACC team's roster will help earn a qualifier for the EIWA, isn't it?

Athletes competing in both football and wrestling used to be common. I think it fell by the wayside in the mid-1970s; Iowa (I think just before Gable took over as HC) allowed Greg Stevens (NCAA 2nd) and John Bowlsby (3rd) to play football in 1975 and both were injured and missed the 1975-76 season. Wrestling coaches took notice.

One of whom is actually very good at her sport.

Oh, it's definitely moved around! But I'm fortunate in one way -- I lost twenty pounds before I began losing and finding ten.

Losing weight is simple. Finding it again is even simpler. I've been losing and gaining the same ten pounds for a decade, at least.

I prefer that posters have to make weight before posting. Of course, that would shut me up for the next couple of decades.

He never spoke to me about it, but I know from others that Strobel was really pissed. He even neglected to schedule Cornell the following year.

I'm kind of surprised that no one seems to remember that Cornell's current head coach was a Lehigh recruit until a few days before he enrolled at Cornell.

I'm still on some mailing lists; got this from the NCAA Prez a little while ago: Good afternoon, Last night’s hearing did not go as we hoped. The court posed worthwhile questions that the NCAA began working through immediately last night with our partners in the conferences. The proposal presented to the court was the product of months of negotiations with student-athletes’ attorneys whose track records speak for themselves when it comes to effective athlete representation. We believe the proposal offers both sides the best possible alternative to endless litigation: Student-athletes receive landmark financial benefits plus the ability to monetize their name, image and likeness rights without limitation, and the colleges and universities that combined deliver nearly $4 billion in scholarships and millions more in health, wellness and educational benefits to hundreds of thousands of young people every year receive stability. The proposal allows both sides to build a system that’s sustainable for years to come. Our next step will be responding to the court’s questions. As we prepare to do that, we will discuss the issues with the appropriate NCAA governance groups, including student-athletes and campus and conference administrators. Regarding the Fontenot and Cornelio lawsuits, we are advocating to address these claims, which are the same as the ones at issue in the House, Carter and Hubbard cases. However, the Colorado cases are being litigated by different plaintiffs’ lawyers from those in California. Our belief is that either the federal judge in California or the federal judge in Colorado will recognize the duplicate claims and view the settlement to have addressed the student-athlete claims in all cases. College sports’ impact is felt far beyond the walls of your schools. College sports launch careers, open doors to life-changing education, serve as the premier stage for women’s sports in America, train our nation’s Olympians and anchor communities everywhere. These impacts matter, but the issues we face are complex. If I learned anything serving as governor, it is that advancing hugely important but complicated issues is never easy and takes time. Resolving these important cases is one of several ways the NCAA and members are modernizing college sports. New requirements for all of Division I are now in effect, ensuring all student-athletes get health coverage and mental health support while guaranteeing scholarships and extra time to graduate. Our new NIL bylaws are in effect to set clearer rules for schools and student-athletes as they maximize their earning potential. The NCAA Post-Eligibility Insurance Program is now rolling out for all 500,000 student-athletes. These positive changes are making a difference. While there is clearly more work ahead, as president of the NCAA, I am eager to advance these vital priorities to best serve all 500,000 student-athletes and build a sustainable, equitable college sports system. Sincerely, Charlie Baker

My take is that the focus on the Olympics is destroying collegiate wrestling. One event, every four years, with six weight classes, that the IOC would be happy to kill in favor of ballroom dancing. For this our best wrestlers try to squeeze themselves into weight classes where they don't fit, take years off without regard to the effect on their college teams, wrestle an inferior style of wrestling where there are virtually no pins. IMO it will be a good day when the IOC removes wrestling from the Olympics. Just my opinion.

F&M has posted its schedule. Useful mainly for the dates of some tournaments: https://godiplomats.com/sports/wrestling/schedule/2024-25

So each conference has 24 teams, minimum? I wonder what the NIL money is like in Kurdistan.

Funny how the article didn't mention how his grades were. Forgot, that doesn't matter. Honestly, why do we even bother to pretend that these are student-athletes?