1 Simple Rule Change to Improve Folkstyle Wrestling

[Tchfllsrfke]

The most exciting sport in the world is forgetting one aspect that makes it so electrifying: Pins a.k.a. Total Victory.

3 point takedowns and 4 point near falls--excellent improvement to benefit aggressors. Now there's one simple way to go a bit further:

Eliminate the 5-point and bonus tournament point Technical Fall.

There is already a point awarded for dominance--that's a Major Decision. Sure, end the match when a wrestler is up by 15, but why reward them if they end the match without a Total Victory? If you're better, Decision-3 points, if your way better, Major Decision-4 points. We don't need differing degrees of "better", that's what the Major Decision is already for.

What's more, Tech Falls are more and more common and, disappointingly, most common amongst some of the most dominant wrestlers who seem to put in very little effort toward a Pin. Why should you get extra points for a takedown clinic? This is folkstyle wrestling where Total Victory and supreme dominance is only demonstrated when you can, against a man's will, make him look at the lights.

Technical falls are increasingly common, especially with 3-point takedowns. That’s not necessarily bad — offense is good for the sport. But here’s the unintended consequence: Elite wrestlers often stop pursuing high-risk, high-skill pinning sequences once the technical fall is within reach. Why chase a cradle or commit to a tilt series when you can simply secure another takedown and end the match with bonus points? If we want great top wrestling, we must incentivize it. Right now, the rulebook rewards takedown clinics more than finishing ability. That’s backwards in folkstyle wrestling — a style built on control and domination on top.

If you're concerned about matches slowing down after a wrestler gets to 8-points up, fine. That just means you're concerned that the wrestler who deserves the Major is impotent in pinning efforts. But I'll give you an olive branch: since the 3-point takedowns Majors are too easily obtained--make Majors require 10-point separation. Still concerned about the time of match from 10-points to 15 going slowly? Fine, call the match when the Major Decision is reached at 10-point separation. Once a wrestler has demonstrated dominance we don't need additional dominance unless it is the ultimate dominance of a pin.

The sport should clearly communicate this hierarchy:

1. You are better (Decision).

2. You are clearly better (Major).

3. You are utterly dominant (Pin).

Technical falls blur that line. They create a fourth category that sits awkwardly between dominance and total victory — and in doing so, they dilute the value of the pin.

If wrestling is serious about rewarding aggression, it must also reward finishing.

Make the pin matter more.

Eliminate bonus points for the technical fall.

[Gene Mills Fan]

"Tech falls are for wussies",   Mean Gene. 

[red viking]

I'd prefer tech falls count the same as a pin. Could make it 20 pts though to account for the fact that td and nf points are easier now. 

Edited February 24 by red viking

[BarSeries]

I'm on board. 

[Pablo]

10 minutes ago, red viking said:

I'd prefer tech falls count the same as a pin. Could make it 20 pts though to account for the fact that td and nf points are easier now. 

Kind of defeats the purpose of increasing the points for a takedown and near fall.  

[jchapman]

We used to have this with the superior decision (win by 10 or more points) from 1972-1975.

Edited February 24 by jchapman

[11986]

1 hour ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

"Tech falls are for wussies",   Mean Gene. 

lol Mean Gene didn't have too many where he didn't get the pin. every once in a while though matches went the distance and some of those would've been TFs if it existed back then. like 28-4 in the freakin' NCAA semi-finals his senior year.  

[jackwebster]

1 hour ago, Tchfllsrfke said:

The most exciting sport in the world is forgetting one aspect that makes 

Why didn't you use the same app to summarize it in a tweet?

[Gene Mills Fan]

6 minutes ago, 11986 said:

lol Mean Gene didn't have too many where he didn't get the pin. every once in a while though matches went the distance and some of those would've been TFs if it existed back then. like 28-4 in the freakin' NCAA semi-finals his senior year.  

Maybe he would have had a lot less pins as your history predicts. But if he knew he would 've just gone for the pin earlier. He, and others have said they made the TF, because of what he did to opponents.

[11986]

Just now, Gene Mills Fan said:

Maybe he would have had a lot less pins as your history predicts. But if he knew he would 've just gone for the pin earlier. He, and others have said they made the TF, because of what he did to opponents.

believe it

[He Rassle]

Cosigned.

[Nak21]

I don’t think we need a change here. You get your advancement pts for winning and you get BONUS if you win in a more dominant fashion than by just regular decision.
If you want to give even more for a pin, ok, I could get behind that but given the amount of 4-1 matches that still happen, guys who go out and get Majors, TFs and Pins should be rewarded.

I don’t want that taken away. Increasing it somehow to more favor the pin is fine, I’d probably be ok with that. 
Now it’s what? 1pt Major, 1.5 TF, 2 Pin. Would 1-2-3 or 1-1.5-3 be more to everyone’s liking? I could get behind either.

Remember, if you advocated for this, I don’t wanna hear complaining when PSUs tourney score goes up another 5-10 pts…

[BruceyB]

The #1 reason we don't see more turns on top is because the best guys in the country are good enough on bottom not to get turned in a "pinning" combination like the older days. Even 10 or 15 years ago you saw guys get to a cross wrist fairly often, and it often turned into points via a tilt. Bottom wrestling learned from this and now it's very rare to see a guy give up a cross wrist. 

I could count on one hand the amount of times I've seen someone give up a cross wrist or arm bar this season in a match between two high level D1 wrestlers.

Couple the improvement with bottom wrestling and the fact that 95% of the top best matches are decided from neutral (or in rideouts), improving your top game enough to pin the lesser opponents isn't as advantageous for winning as even the smallest improvements from neutral. 

I miss good top wrestling as much as anyone, but it rarely works against the best guys and has little to no application to freestyle which is becoming more and more important for the majority of colleges' elite wrestlers. It would take something radical for pinning to provide enough incentive to make it a top priority.

Edited February 24 by BruceyB

[Jim L]

2 hours ago, Tchfllsrfke said:

The most exciting sport in the world is forgetting one aspect that makes it so electrifying: Pins a.k.a. Total Victory.

3 point takedowns and 4 point near falls--excellent improvement to benefit aggressors. Now there's one simple way to go a bit further:

Eliminate the 5-point and bonus tournament point Technical Fall.

There is already a point awarded for dominance--that's a Major Decision. Sure, end the match when a wrestler is up by 15, but why reward them if they end the match without a Total Victory? If you're better, Decision-3 points, if your way better, Major Decision-4 points. We don't need differing degrees of "better", that's what the Major Decision is already for.

What's more, Tech Falls are more and more common and, disappointingly, most common amongst some of the most dominant wrestlers who seem to put in very little effort toward a Pin. Why should you get extra points for a takedown clinic? This is folkstyle wrestling where Total Victory and supreme dominance is only demonstrated when you can, against a man's will, make him look at the lights.

Technical falls are increasingly common, especially with 3-point takedowns. That’s not necessarily bad — offense is good for the sport. But here’s the unintended consequence: Elite wrestlers often stop pursuing high-risk, high-skill pinning sequences once the technical fall is within reach. Why chase a cradle or commit to a tilt series when you can simply secure another takedown and end the match with bonus points? If we want great top wrestling, we must incentivize it. Right now, the rulebook rewards takedown clinics more than finishing ability. That’s backwards in folkstyle wrestling — a style built on control and domination on top.

If you're concerned about matches slowing down after a wrestler gets to 8-points up, fine. That just means you're concerned that the wrestler who deserves the Major is impotent in pinning efforts. But I'll give you an olive branch: since the 3-point takedowns Majors are too easily obtained--make Majors require 10-point separation. Still concerned about the time of match from 10-points to 15 going slowly? Fine, call the match when the Major Decision is reached at 10-point separation. Once a wrestler has demonstrated dominance we don't need additional dominance unless it is the ultimate dominance of a pin.

The sport should clearly communicate this hierarchy:

1. You are better (Decision).

2. You are clearly better (Major).

3. You are utterly dominant (Pin).

Technical falls blur that line. They create a fourth category that sits awkwardly between dominance and total victory — and in doing so, they dilute the value of the pin.

If wrestling is serious about rewarding aggression, it must also reward finishing.

Make the pin matter more.

Eliminate bonus points for the technical fall.

Still end the match after a 15 point lead, but don't give extra team points?

[Jim L]

2 hours ago, Tchfllsrfke said:

The most exciting sport in the world is forgetting one aspect that makes it so electrifying: Pins a.k.a. Total Victory.

....

The crowds get every bit as excited when two wrestlers lock up and try for throws. Someone hitting a big throw is electrifying, so why not reward that if we are trying to make the sport more exciting? Add points for grand amplitude to Folkstyle.

 

[Dogbone]

Tech Fall is worth 0.5 more points than a major and 0.5 points less than a pin in tournament scoring.  It would have a bigger impact on duals. 

But the last thing this sports needs is guys who can't get a turn/pin laying on their opponent for last 2 minutes of the match instead of ending it just so they can get 1 extra bonus point in a dual or .5 points in a tournament. 

[jchapman]

23 minutes ago, Jim L said:

The crowds get every bit as excited when two wrestlers lock up and try for throws. Someone hitting a big throw is electrifying, so why not reward that if we are trying to make the sport more exciting? Add points for grand amplitude to Folkstyle.

 

An not awarding defensive points on a slipped throw!

[manatree]

So no bonus points beyond a major, but you don’t stop a match u til there is a 15 point difference, not 8 points. This makes no sense.

I have no problem with the tech fall at five points, I just think they should revert to the name superior decision as it is a more accurate name.

[Nittany]

I see your point in elevating the pin as the ultimate desirable outcome in a match, but you're also arguing for less total wrestling.

[headshuck]

Tech fall requires back points?

[jchapman]

31 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Tech fall requires back points?

Back in the day it did, to differentiate from match termination.

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, headshuck said:

Tech fall requires back points?

It should

[Tchfllsrfke]

2 hours ago, manatree said:

I have no problem with the tech fall at five points, I just think they should revert to the name superior decision as it is a more accurate name.

A name is a name. What's most important is what the response is on the mat. If you like, I noted toward the end, that you can stop the match at a major and make the Major a 10-point separation. The sport should be more than a takedown tournament, which is what we're seeing from even high-level wrestlers clearly capable of much more.

[Tchfllsrfke]

1 hour ago, Nittany said:

I see your point in elevating the pin as the ultimate desirable outcome in a match, but you're also arguing for less total wrestling.

Not quite. Anyway, I don't think it's good for the sport to have the minutes in matches between 10-point separation and the TF so inconsequential and uninteresting. I'm arguing for more meaningful wrestling throughout--make the wrestlers want takedowns AND pins, not allowing them to disregard the latter.

[Tchfllsrfke]

17 hours ago, Jim L said:

Still end the match after a 15 point lead, but don't give extra team points?

Correct. You've proven your dominance and you've also demonstrated you can't pin him. We don't need to watch more minutes of you dominantly proving you're better but unable to pin. No reward for the lack of pinning ability, only for the dominance.