Back to okst vs psu given new info

[Truzzcat]

Jax potentially enrolling second semester seems to have started a lot of debate on why DT and co would choose to make that decision as it seems to not move the needle a ton in the team race this year, and PSU will lose Levi and okst brings in guys next year so all things point towards then next 3-4 years being there best shot. I think ultimately its Jax's decision so we should all support that and what he views as best for his development as a wrestler. As someone who has tried to cope with PSU's dominance by hoping its just whats ultimately best for team USA that is where I have shifted my ultimate view point. Anyhow I want this discussion to be more geared towards how this could be beneficial to okst in the short term i.e. this year and if it has any possible lineup implications for next year that helps, and of course if this moves the needle enough to where we could have a team race if the domino's fall correctly.

I did the following based on my perceived floor and ceiling at each weight for PSU in OKST with Jax in the lineup. I want to add that I baked in improvement for the Freshman because I think it is more than likely they are not the best versions of themsevles in week 3 compared to 4 months later. Examples Levi Haines losing to vinny zerben then making the national finals or Kasak losing to Rathjen then taking third.

125 for PSU I had a range of 1-4 for okst I had 2-8 
133 for PSU I had 1-7 for okst I had 1-4 I think Blaze styles leaves him open to losing to a few more guys than Jax
141 for PSU I had 6-DNP for okst I had 1-7 not going to say that guy who majored Hardy can't beat anyone
149 for PSU I had 1-5 for okst I am assuming Jamison and I had 2-DNP, 2 may be bullish but looking back last year he beat Hardy and had 4 SV losses of his 6 losses if he is healthy and better at 149 I think at a weaker weight 2 is possible
157 for PSU I had 1-5 and for okst I had 1-5
165 for PSU I had 1-2 and for okst I had 1-6
174 for PSU I had 1 and for okst I had 3-r12
184 for PSU I had 2-7 and for okst I had 2-r12 I truly believe Ryder is a bit banged up I do not see how either of these guys can run the gauntlet at this weight, but I think both of them at their best are good enough to win 1 or 2 big matches
197 for PSU I had 1-3 and for okst I had 5-DNP
285 for PSU I had 7-DNP and for okst I had 4-r12

Max points came out to 171.5 for psu and 164 for okst not including bonus 
Min points came out to 95 for psu and 49.5 for okst 
The average between max and min came out to be 133.25 for PSU and 106.75 for okst

 

so by my calculations i'm saying there may be a chance

 

[Antitroll2828]

Pretty generous of ok state. Facundo isn’t sniffing 3rd and Ryder may have some future potential idk how you see him beat Dom Cates 2-1 and think possible finalist. Messenbrink 1-2? Who is going to beat him? Otherwise pretty solid 

[Le duke]

Just so we’re clear:

Marcus Blaze’s style, which has seen him beat Forrest, Davino and Basset in the last 18 months (and not lose to any of them) is his “weakness”? That style has kept Davino off the U20 World team, Bassett off the senior national team, and Jax off the national team for the Olympics.

Oh, and he’s their worse 133 option. The other guy would force him up to 141, where he’d eat Vega alive next year.


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[WrestlingRash]

Not sure how anyone has watched Okie State and thought they were doing well.

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

Just so we’re clear:

Marcus Blaze’s style, which has seen him beat Forrest, Davino and Basset in the last 18 months (and not lose to any of them) is his “weakness”? That style has kept Davino off the U20 World team, Bassett off the senior national team, and Jax off the national team for the Olympics.

Oh, and he’s their worse 133 option. The other guy would force him up to 141, where he’d eat Vega alive next year.


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Davino has had an entire year in a college Folkstyle room since they last met in Folkstyle - which Davino won.

[Paul158]

6 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

Jax potentially enrolling second semester seems to have started a lot of debate on why DT and co would choose to make that decision as it seems to not move the needle a ton in the team race this year, and PSU will lose Levi and okst brings in guys next year so all things point towards then next 3-4 years being there best shot. I think ultimately its Jax's decision so we should all support that and what he views as best for his development as a wrestler. As someone who has tried to cope with PSU's dominance by hoping its just whats ultimately best for team USA that is where I have shifted my ultimate view point. Anyhow I want this discussion to be more geared towards how this could be beneficial to okst in the short term i.e. this year and if it has any possible lineup implications for next year that helps, and of course if this moves the needle enough to where we could have a team race if the domino's fall correctly.

I did the following based on my perceived floor and ceiling at each weight for PSU in OKST with Jax in the lineup. I want to add that I baked in improvement for the Freshman because I think it is more than likely they are not the best versions of themsevles in week 3 compared to 4 months later. Examples Levi Haines losing to vinny zerben then making the national finals or Kasak losing to Rathjen then taking third.

125 for PSU I had a range of 1-4 for okst I had 2-8 
133 for PSU I had 1-7 for okst I had 1-4 I think Blaze styles leaves him open to losing to a few more guys than Jax
141 for PSU I had 6-DNP for okst I had 1-7 not going to say that guy who majored Hardy can't beat anyone
149 for PSU I had 1-5 for okst I am assuming Jamison and I had 2-DNP, 2 may be bullish but looking back last year he beat Hardy and had 4 SV losses of his 6 losses if he is healthy and better at 149 I think at a weaker weight 2 is possible
157 for PSU I had 1-5 and for okst I had 1-5
165 for PSU I had 1-2 and for okst I had 1-6
174 for PSU I had 1 and for okst I had 3-r12
184 for PSU I had 2-7 and for okst I had 2-r12 I truly believe Ryder is a bit banged up I do not see how either of these guys can run the gauntlet at this weight, but I think both of them at their best are good enough to win 1 or 2 big matches
197 for PSU I had 1-3 and for okst I had 5-DNP
285 for PSU I had 7-DNP and for okst I had 4-r12

Max points came out to 171.5 for psu and 164 for okst not including bonus 
Min points came out to 95 for psu and 49.5 for okst 
The average between max and min came out to be 133.25 for PSU and 106.75 for okst

 

so by my calculations i'm saying there may be a chance

 

With all due respect your max points at 164. I mean you are talking ever star in the heavens to a line. I would realistically put you in the 80 to 95 range this year.

[1032004]

Does PSU counter the Jax move with Ono?

[Le duke]

Davino has had an entire year in a college Folkstyle room since they last met in Folkstyle - which Davino won.

Davino can’t get to Blaze’s legs.

From 7 months ago:

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/14129719-61-lbs-3rd-place-match-marcus-blaze-titan-mercury-wrestling-club-tmwc-vs-benjamin-davino-ohio-rtc-titan-mercury-wrestling-club-tmwc


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[Le duke]

Does PSU counter the Jax move with Ono?

Why bother?

It would be the ultimate troll move, and hilarious.

But…winning 125, 133 and 141 next year would be better. There’s a chance they could have the top guy at 125 to 165 next year, actually.


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[The_KC_Godfather]

10 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Not sure how anyone has watched Okie State and thought they were doing well.

Clearly you haven’t watched them. 7 of 10 wrestled to or above their Flo ranking. Those that didn’t (Spratley, Swiderski, and Ryder) had their losing matches decided by 3 points or less. And, although not an excuse, Swiderski and Ryder are dealing with injuries.

With six freshmen in the lineup (four true, who were 14-1), I’d say it was a pretty impressive weekend considering their results prior to DT coming to town.

125: #2 RsJr Spratley: 2-2; Beat #25 and lost to #1 and #10, both by one point

133: NR True Frosh Ramirez: 2-1; Beat #22 and went to OT with #2 Ayala

141: NR True Frosh Vega; 4-0; Beat #8, #9, and majored #2

149: #4 RsJr Swiderski; 1-3; all matches decided by less than 2 points to top 10 guys

157: #4 True Frosh Robideau; 4-0; Round 1 TF, Round 2 Decision #11, Round 3 MD, Round 4 TF

165: #4 True Frosh Lockett; 4-0; Beat #2 Caliendo

174: #10 RsJr Facundo; 1-3; Lost to numbers 2, 3, and 5, but beat #4.

184: #4 RsFr Ryder; 1-3; Lost to #2 Ferrari and #6 Alred

197; #9 RsFr Merrill; 3-1; Lost to Endene (now likely top 5) and beat #7 Mcdanel

HWT.: #9 RsSr Doucet; 3-1; 2-1 loss to #1 Ferrari

[Hammerlock3]

10 hours ago, Le duke said:

Just so we’re clear:

Marcus Blaze’s style, which has seen him beat Forrest, Davino and Basset in the last 18 months (and not lose to any of them) is his “weakness”? That style has kept Davino off the U20 World team, Bassett off the senior national team, and Jax off the national team for the Olympics.

Oh, and he’s their worse 133 option. The other guy would force him up to 141, where he’d eat Vega alive next year.


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no ones eating vega alive. He's the real headline from the Duals

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

Why bother?

It would be the ultimate troll move, and hilarious.

But…winning 125, 133 and 141 next year would be better.


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I think I would give the field a shot against Ono before he has a year to learn folkstyle, so it might make whatever weight he goes more interesting at least.  He could also potentially stop Mendez from his third title if he goes 141 which would be an interesting storyline (and also stop Nagao from God’s plan yet again)

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

 

Clearly you haven’t watched them. 7 of 10 wrestled to or above their Flo ranking. Those that didn’t (Spratley, Swiderski, and Ryder) had their losing matches decided by 3 points or less. And, although not an excuse, Swiderski and Ryder are dealing with injuries.

With six freshmen in the lineup (four true, who were 14-1), I’d say it was a pretty impressive weekend considering their results prior to DT coming to town.

125: #2 RsJr Spratley: 2-2; Beat #25 and lost to #1 and #10, both by one point

133: NR True Frosh Ramirez: 2-1; Beat #22 and went to OT with #2 Ayala

141: NR True Frosh Vega; 4-0; Beat #8, #9, and majored #2

149: #4 RsJr Swiderski; 1-3; all matches decided by less than 2 points to top 10 guys

157: #4 True Frosh Robideau; 4-0; Round 1 TF, Round 2 Decision #11, Round 3 MD, Round 4 TF

165: #4 True Frosh Lockett; 4-0; Beat #2 Caliendo

174: #10 RsJr Facundo; 1-3; Lost to numbers 2, 3, and 5, but beat #4.

184: #4 RsFr Ryder; 1-3; Lost to #2 Ferrari and #6 Alred

197; #9 RsFr Merrill; 3-1; Lost to Endene (now likely top 5) and beat #7 Mcdanel

HWT.: #9 RsSr Doucet; 3-1; 2-1 loss to #1 Ferrari

Overall, not a great match vs. Iowa.  Some bright spots, but I think the general consensus was that Oklahoma State would be able to beat Iowa, even with Keuter.

[The_KC_Godfather]

4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

no ones eating vega alive. He's the real headline from the Duals

. Ono might have the advantage on their feet, but after those 3 points, Vega dominates on the mat.

[Truzzcat]

10 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Pretty generous of ok state. Facundo isn’t sniffing 3rd and Ryder may have some future potential idk how you see him beat Dom Cates 2-1 and think possible finalist. Messenbrink 1-2? Who is going to beat him? Otherwise pretty solid 

I don’t think he is out of a match with anyone besides Levi. Lost to PK in OT and beat minto I think it’s within his ceiling outcomes.

 

I am optimistic that the version of Ryder we saw against smith is closer to the version we get in March. He was in every match this weekend despite being on the losing end of most so wouldn’t right him off against anyone quite yet but if this continues that would definitely change.

would definitely not pick Ladarion against Mitchell, it’s probably closer to a major than it is a Ladarion win but 2 takedowns against Caliendo and Caliendo not sniffing one is good enough for me to give him a small shot.

[NM1965]

6 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

 

Clearly you haven’t watched them. 7 of 10 wrestled to or above their Flo ranking. Those that didn’t (Spratley, Swiderski, and Ryder) had their losing matches decided by 3 points or less. And, although not an excuse, Swiderski and Ryder are dealing with injuries.

With six freshmen in the lineup (four true, who were 14-1), I’d say it was a pretty impressive weekend considering their results prior to DT coming to town.

125: #2 RsJr Spratley: 2-2; Beat #25 and lost to #1 and #10, both by one point

133: NR True Frosh Ramirez: 2-1; Beat #22 and went to OT with #2 Ayala

141: NR True Frosh Vega; 4-0; Beat #8, #9, and majored #2

149: #4 RsJr Swiderski; 1-3; all matches decided by less than 2 points to top 10 guys

157: #4 True Frosh Robideau; 4-0; Round 1 TF, Round 2 Decision #11, Round 3 MD, Round 4 TF

165: #4 True Frosh Lockett; 4-0; Beat #2 Caliendo

174: #10 RsJr Facundo; 1-3; Lost to numbers 2, 3, and 5, but beat #4.

184: #4 RsFr Ryder; 1-3; Lost to #2 Ferrari and #6 Alred

197; #9 RsFr Merrill; 3-1; Lost to Endene (now likely top 5) and beat #7 Mcdanel

HWT.: #9 RsSr Doucet; 3-1; 2-1 loss to #1 Ferrari

I'd say OSU has considerable upside. Their freshmen are going to improve a good deal between now and NCAAs. Their other guys wrestled competitively against other top guys. Their results will improve with their conditioning and experience over the upcoming season. OSU looked like a podium team to me at national duals. Provided OSU doesn't suffer the injury bug I think they'll have a great year. 

[Elevator]

10 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

 

Clearly you haven’t watched them. 7 of 10 wrestled to or above their Flo ranking. Those that didn’t (Spratley, Swiderski, and Ryder) had their losing matches decided by 3 points or less. And, although not an excuse, Swiderski and Ryder are dealing with injuries.

With six freshmen in the lineup (four true, who were 14-1), I’d say it was a pretty impressive weekend considering their results prior to DT coming to town.

125: #2 RsJr Spratley: 2-2; Beat #25 and lost to #1 and #10, both by one point

133: NR True Frosh Ramirez: 2-1; Beat #22 and went to OT with #2 Ayala

141: NR True Frosh Vega; 4-0; Beat #8, #9, and majored #2

149: #4 RsJr Swiderski; 1-3; all matches decided by less than 2 points to top 10 guys

157: #4 True Frosh Robideau; 4-0; Round 1 TF, Round 2 Decision #11, Round 3 MD, Round 4 TF

165: #4 True Frosh Lockett; 4-0; Beat #2 Caliendo

174: #10 RsJr Facundo; 1-3; Lost to numbers 2, 3, and 5, but beat #4.

184: #4 RsFr Ryder; 1-3; Lost to #2 Ferrari and #6 Alred

197; #9 RsFr Merrill; 3-1; Lost to Endene (now likely top 5) and beat #7 Mcdanel

HWT.: #9 RsSr Doucet; 3-1; 2-1 loss to #1 Ferrari

I take your point.  Jax, Vega, Robideau, and Locket could be contenders right away.   I think Facundo could sniff third, just needs to find a little better finishes and penetration.   Seems like he is in a good room for it.

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

. Ono might have the advantage on their feet, but after those 3 points, Vega dominates on the mat.

He might be the best guy on mat in the NCAA. I don't think anyone went under him, and he schooled hardy in the scoot positions he creates(i think he took him down 3 or four times). Thats two really high bars to clear. 

[NotThatDave]

10 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Not sure how anyone has watched Okie State and thought they were doing well.

I didn't see any "Okie State" this weekend.

[The_KC_Godfather]

3 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Overall, not a great match vs. Iowa.  Some bright spots, but I think the general consensus was that Oklahoma State would be able to beat Iowa, even with Keuter.

Oh you’re 100% right. Bad showing and very fluky imo. Meaning I didn’t expect Spratley to lose, Ayala to barely win in OT (he would have majored or pinned Figs), Vega/Bailey to be that close (Bailey is placing high this year), Block to beat Siderski, Vonovich to go at 57 instead of Williams, Caliendo to lose, and Endene to win. Frankly it’s a bad dual matchup for OSU, but in an individual tournament, I think OSU will be very impressive.

Will be interesting to see what happens on Feb 22. That’s another cool thing about this early season tournament…you get to see progression over the season.

[Fred]

13 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

no ones eating vega alive. He's the real headline from the Duals

That’s just how leduke talks. Penn state guys don’t beat opponents, they “eat them alive,” “curb stomp them,” “pistol whip them,” etc … I think he might be a ten year old kid, 

[The_KC_Godfather]

4 minutes ago, Elevator said:

I take your point.  Jax, Vega, Robideau, and Locket could be contenders right away.   I think Facundo could sniff third, just needs to find a little better finishes and penetration.   Seems like he is in a good room for it.

And it’s crazy to think that Jax, Ross and the Raney’s are all coming next season.

[Elevator]

1 minute ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

And it’s crazy to think that Jax, Ross and the Raney’s are all coming next season.

It is going to be fun this year and next.  This new guy Vega seems like a breakout wrestling rock star - we will see if it holds up through NCAAs.  I am taking the over on him on NCAA top 5.

[The_KC_Godfather]

13 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

He might be the best guy on mat in the NCAA. I don't think anyone went under him, and he schooled hardy in the scoot positions he creates(i think he took him down 3 or four times). Thats two really high bars to clear. 

Which is insane for a true freshman. I remember when J’Den Cox came in…there was no doubt in the Missouri circle that he could win a title as a true freshman other than learning to ride college guys. Sammie Henson spent all summer with him working on it and boom.

I hope it carries Vega all the way.

Edited November 18, 2025 by The_KC_Godfather

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

29 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

And it’s crazy to think that Jax, Ross and the Raney’s are all coming next season.

Maybe not all, and maybe some sooner than next year...