$4T Debt Limit Increase Proposal

[Wrestleknownothing]

19 hours ago, mspart said:

We like free things.   Congress likes to give free things.   We vote into Congress the people that will give us free things. 

What we fail to remember is that there is no such thing as free things.  It is illusionary until the piper has to be paid.   And the piper always has to be paid, one way or another.  And it will be the poor people that wanted free things that will pay the most in pain and suffering.  

mspart

This line of thought needs to make its way into the free $400 million airplane conversation.

[WrestlingRasta]

11 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

This line of thought needs to make its way into the free $400 million airplane conversation.

Thought the same thing. But an even bigger question I have regarding this discussion is, how is this ‘free’ gift saving the tax payers millions of dollars, when the new planes are still being built, the current planes are still fully functional (actually more functional than the free plane, just not as much luxury) and will have to got through millions of dollars of retrofitting and upgrading, paid for by….tax dollars, before it can be used by one and only one president.   Am I missing something? 
 

I don’t think many of the people on here realize Air Force One is not A plane. 

Edited 4 hours ago by WrestlingRasta

[Scouts Honor]

i think it's  a stopgap, until boeing gets it's ducks in a row... and finishes the already ordered planes.

 

[WrestlingRasta]

Just now, Scouts Honor said:

i think it's  a stopgap, until boeing gets it's ducks in a row... and finishes the already ordered planes.

 

But it’s not at all needed. So how is it saving the American tax payers millions of dollars?  That’s my question. 

Edited 4 hours ago by WrestlingRasta

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

The deficit is based on the budget, they're basically 1:1. It's the difference between what we spend versus what we collect in a fiscal year. That speaks to an administration's ability/willingness/desire to make the revenues and expenses closer via the legislative (or other) processes. All debt isn't bad debt and people often engage in fallacies of composition when they think about national debt versus their individual households. The level is the debate - which is part of the reason we end up with the debt ceiling debates.

For sure there are obligations that continue over time and span administrations, no debating that, but I'm not sure what you're getting at with lagging indicators that you've mentioned. For sure there are bills designed to make the next person look bad, no doubt about that. 

I'd argue that it's not partisan to point out factual information about which administrations have done better with that balance. But either way, I'm certainly not arguing that Democrats are perfect. I happen to think they're an absolutely horrendous operation. 

First, I agree that the current operation of our congress is an obstructionist sh*tshow. I'm sure we all have various ideas about how we got here. It wasn't always this way. We've lost a lot of statesmen in the past 15-20 years and have replaced them with caricatures. Blame the rise of social media, disinformation, or whatever you prefer. We're made to believe that anyone who doesn't share your opinion is your enemy. It's sad, really. 

The answer to how to fix this or anything else someone considers an issue, like most things that are political, is that it depends on what your priorities are. 

If we think that our debt load it too high, we have to either spend less, increase revenue or a combination of the two. But the devil is always in the details and, even at that, you're relying on politicians to do the "right" things.

The way I see it, those priorities change amongst politicians (and voters) depending on who is in the White House and the balance of congress - and that's why nothing ever seems to get fixed. 

 

You mentioned all debt isn't bad debt. Just out of curiosity how much of the 37 trillion would consider is good or acceptable debt. 

[Scouts Honor]

i bet if you gave DOGE enough time, they would show that at least 60% of the 37 trillion is crap.

[Scouts Honor]

no idea if true

but big if true?

 

[Paul158]

4 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

no idea if true

but big if true?

 

The conversation started a year ago with Biden. The media said absolutely nothing about it back then. The media is saying absolutely nothing now about the conversation that started a year ago.

[WrestlingRasta]

Apparently Mullin doesn’t even know that AF1 is not A plane.  But rather two planes that are both in ‘active force’….no backup, no reserve….and either plane is only Air Force One when the President is on board, signified by the Captain’s call: “we are now Air Force One” once the President steps on the plane.  
 

So whether he doesn’t know, or is just…what’s the term, gaslighting?….I’m not ready to take him at his word.   Reminds me of this other term I keep hearing…something something DS?

[Paul158]

23 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i bet if you gave DOGE enough time, they would show that at least 60% of the 37 trillion is crap.

I would think 8 or 9 trillion of it is interest on the debt. The National debt clock is already at 2.007 trillion dollars for this year. It shows DOGE is at 434 billion dollars in savings for this year.

[Scouts Honor]

not nearly enough

but if they weren't blocked, and had people subverting their work

maybe they would find more 

[Scouts Honor]

yes we know

all about AF1

maybe he assumes we know.

so if there are more. and only one is working. 

wouldn't another one help out.

the main problem here is boeing hasn't been able to deliver.

hence my usage of the word 

stopgap

[Paul158]

1 minute ago, Scouts Honor said:

not nearly enough

but if they weren't blocked, and had people subverting their work

maybe they would find more 

Burning and vandalizing businesses and Tesla cars. Trying to intimidate the DOGE workers and Elon. 

[Paul158]

4 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

yes we know

all about AF1

maybe he assumes we know.

so if there are more. and only one is working. 

wouldn't another one help out.

the main problem here is boeing hasn't been able to deliver.

hence my usage of the word 

stopgap

It seems odd that Boeing wouldn't be delivering to the most important customer on the planet. The most important jet on the planet in a timely fashion. What seems to be the hold up? When is the scheduled date for delivery?

[jross]

Just now, TylerDurden said:

Ignoring the full COVID year, which is valid, the annualized amount for the first three months is the second largest ever, right behind the 08-09 auto bailout that spanned Bush/Obama, which one could reasonably be argued deserved to be singled out, but wasn't. So there definitely aren't numerous others. So, at worst, I looked a the bright red line, saw the number, misspoke and it's the second highest. 

While some may disagree that the annualized amount is correct - I know you do - I don't think it's far fetched when you consider the negative revenue impacts of the Trump tax cuts and increases in spending.

At the very least, the same data set isn't trying to game the system with some partisan agenda as some have implied (not you). 

But whether it's the largest or second largest, no one can debate the trend lines. 

Thank you.  You meant the FY 2020 as if 2020 Covid never occurred.  FY 2020 without Covid, based on the inflated Q1 spending annualized, was not actually the single largest deficit year.  As discussed about seasonal spending, it was not practically the largest deficit either.  You can pull the raw data 'non adjusted seasonally' by quarter for current expenditures for several decades or 'seasonally adjusted' by quarter for total expenditures for several decades (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/).  I had xAI convert the spending to 1983 dollars.  What I found was a continuous pattern of increased spending every year... and that the FY 2020 Q1 WAS NOT the largest ever.

 

[Scouts Honor]

December 2024

 

Boeing was contracted in 2018 to deliver new Air Force One planes for delivery in December 2024. That never happened. Boeing blames supply chain issues (some companies that make parts have gone out of business), changes made to the requirements of the planes and the high cost of doing the work.3 hours ago

[Offthemat]

37 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Apparently Mullin doesn’t even know that AF1 is not A plane.

He plainly states that the second plane has problems, or do you have information he doesn’t?

[mspart]

7 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

December 2024

 

Boeing was contracted in 2018 to deliver new Air Force One planes for delivery in December 2024. That never happened. Boeing blames supply chain issues (some companies that make parts have gone out of business), changes made to the requirements of the planes and the high cost of doing the work.3 hours ago

Embarrassing. 

mspart

[WrestlingRasta]

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

He plainly states that the second plane has problems, or do you have information he doesn’t?

The only information I have is the words from the current administration themselves, quotes as saying the process began when they were shopping around for a new plane and the Royal Family said we have one for sale, which led to talks, which led to the royal family saying they will gift it.  Again, words from the Trump administration. 
 

Having said that, and more importantly, I just don’t make a habit of blindly following what politicians with agendas say without anything to back it up like blind sheep. 
 

But by all means, go ahead. Have fun with it. 

[ionel]

43 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Apparently Mullin doesn’t even know that AF1 is not A plane.  

 

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

He plainly states that the second plane has problems, or do you have information he doesn’t?

There's gotta be a second "AF-1" available.  I remember when Clinton flew in to Willard Airport to speak at U of Illinois.  On departure taxi pilot turned too short got a wheel off the taxi way and stuck in the mud.  The Pres and staff were playing cards on board till the backup at air base in Indiana made it in to take all back to DC.  Pretty sure the last time that pilot flew AF-1.  

[Offthemat]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

There's gotta be a second "AF-1" available. 

Mullinn said , and i have heard elsewhere, that the sister plane has been found to have airframe problems.  

[Offthemat]

11 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Having said that,

It’s obvious you are so confused you can’t carry on a conversation with anyone but yourself. 

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Mullinn said , and i have heard elsewhere, that the sister plane has been found to have airframe problems.  

Yes I've heard that but there has to be a back up and it's AF-1 as soon as DT is on board.  They just aren't telling us for security reasons. 

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

Yes I've heard that but there has to be a back up and it's AF-1 as soon as DT is on board.  They just aren't telling us for security reasons. 

Think he can get the keys to Melania’s?

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

Yes I've heard that but there has to be a back up and it's AF-1 as soon as DT is on board.  They just aren't telling us for security reasons. 

There’s no ‘back up’. There are two planes in regular rotation. One flys, the other is going through its regular maintenance and servicing, then they rotate.  And so on.  This has been the way for decades.