Weigh-ins

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, jross said:

My experience is that HS wrestling is lip service and virtue signaling when it comes to weight management.  And even when nutrition is taught, the student is undisciplined and impatient.  ...and we still have kids cheating hydration tests...

Sorry, I should have rephrased. I meant high level HS wrestling. The top HS wrestlers are cutting weight the same way the college men do. 

[jross]

14 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Great points.

They don't make it any less absurd that you said a coach who supports one hour weighins doesn't care about kids.

Is there a misunderstanding?  Where did I say one hour in my posts?  Where did anyone else say one hour in a post I responded to?

The only person saying one hour that I can find is you inventing me as having been critical of one hour weigh ins.

I talked about matside being great and was confused by your one hour comment.  I thought maybe you meant this as an idea rather than matside.  Which is a fair idea.  But still I can't find the context behind your one hour comment.

Edited April 10 by jross

[wrestle87]

7 hours ago, Elevator said:

A counter consideration is personal privacy - guys step on the scale with underwear (and in some cases no underwear) and now we have girls/women wrestling.   

I think the idea is to just be in your wrestling gear right before the match and actually have it be about the same.

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

I think the idea is to just be in your wrestling gear right before the match and actually have it be about the same.

Heavy knee brace?

[ionel]

47 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Sorry, I should have rephrased. I meant high level HS wrestling. The top HS wrestlers are cutting weight the same way the college men do. 

ahh ... some of them are bumping up for competition.  When was the last time you saw that in college? 

[boconnell]

45 minutes ago, jross said:

Is there a misunderstanding?  Where did I say one hour in my posts?  Where did anyone else say one hour in a post I responded to?

The only person saying one hour that I can find is you inventing me as having been critical of one hour weigh ins.

I talked about matside being great and was confused by your one hour comment.  I thought maybe you meant this as an idea rather than matside.  Which is a fair idea.  But still I can't find the context behind your one hour comment.

The current rule is one hour weigh ins.  You declared that if a coach doesn't support mat side weighins, it's because they care about other things more than their wrestlers.  

[jross]

22 minutes ago, boconnell said:

The current rule is one hour weigh ins.  You declared that if a coach doesn't support mat side weighins, it's because they care about other things more than their wrestlers.  

That helps!  My response triggered by OP's mention of hours...

 

Quote

But as a newbie I cannot wrap my mind around the rationale for weigh-ins hours before a match.

...and to memory of when I wrestled and coached... when kids weighed in the morning, remote, the night before, only first day of multi day, etc.  I'd been out of HS wrestling for awhile.  I applied that memory to 2020+ observations of kids starving themselves and cheating the hydration test.  

In reading my state's HS rules, it opts for weigh-in no more than two hours before each day's session, of multi-day tournaments.  That makes it much more effective than what I'd recalled.

Is a morning weigh-in required for multi-day tournaments nation wide?  (probably open to each state...)

Does a finalist weigh in at 8AM even if they free until 6PM for a multi day tournament?  (system probably accepts this 10 hour rehydration opp...)

 

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, jross said:

That helps!  My response triggered by OP's mention of hours...

 

...and to memory of when I wrestled and coached... when kids weighed in the morning, remote, the night before, only first day of multi day, etc.  I'd been out of HS wrestling for awhile.  I applied that memory to 2020+ observations of kids starving themselves and cheating the hydration test.  

In reading my state's HS rules, it opts for weigh-in no more than two hours before each day's session, of multi-day tournaments.  That makes it much more effective than what I'd recalled.

Is a morning weigh-in required for multi-day tournaments nation wide?  (probably open to each state...)

Does a finalist weigh in at 8AM even if they free until 6PM for a multi day tournament?  (system probably accepts this 10 hour rehydration opp...)

 

Great questions and they promote good discussion.

We do weighins for each day of competition.  For duals it's an hour before.  For tournaments it's usually 1-2 hours before the start.  We don't have any tournaments where you wrestle only the finals on the final day.  But you could have a decent gap before the semis (maybe noon).  

I think the rules could absolutely be improved.  I think trying to promote less weight cutting in HS is good.  The team I coach in Washington might seriously cut less weight than any decent team in the state.  I don't like weight cutting.  I just don't think it's matside weighins or you're prioritizing the lineup over a kid's best interest.

[Dark Energy]

Again, it is a needless distraction.  Too much of the ‘sport’ is who is the better weight cutter.  
 

We all know it is the worst part of the sport.  Makes other kids think the sport is crazy / stupid.  Makes the wrestlers miserable.  
 

Stresses out parents.  My wife was so pissed at my son’s cuts.  I was too.  Nothing crazy.  But eat your dinner!!!

[NYupstate]

15 hours ago, Pin Head said:

Be vigilant about any drastic weight loss attempts. Attended my 50-year high school reunion. The lightweight guys that had plastic suits, spit cups and starvation diets all look horrible. They look twenty years older than they are, bent over, joint pain etc. beyond a typical 68 year old. Let your son eat, grow and burn energy. When needed, 3-5 pounds over time can be accomplished safely. He has a long life ahead of him, good luck.

Just an old fart observation.

Yeah, that's my sense too, but it's not based on enough experience to be confident in my observations. 

My wife and I made it clear to our son that we would much prefer he gain into a higher weight class rather than cut to find a spot. He will be a freshman next year and depending on how big he gets between now and the start of the season he may or may not have to compete for a starting slot (it's a small school with a small team). I'd prefer he be second string and grow as his body wants to grow. His uncle cut during high school and believes it stunted his growth. He never got any taller after he started cutting his sophomore year. 

I am not saying cutting will stunt every person's growth. I do believe it probably stunts some people, especially if it is done during a time the body "wants" to be in a growth spurt. And those times are easy to identify in the rearview mirror, nigh on impossible to predict with any precision.

[NYupstate]

13 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

Cutting weight is part of the deal. I like it being a part of our sport to be honest (at the high school and college levels only, I'm against it in age groups below that). It teaches self-disciple, dedication, determination, etc. No one is making you cut weight (or at least they shouldn't be). So if you don't like it, go up a weight. But I think it's a great part of our sport. Now that doesn't mean the process is fun, we all know it sucks. But, the cutting weight strategy has changed a great deal. It's no longer about starving yourself etc. If you do it the right way you can still perform at a high level. 

This take reminds me a lot about the way doctors I know talk about the way residency "used to be". There was a culture issue that caused the old guard to cling to their belief that 120 or 130 work weeks toughened them up and prepared them for the practice of medicine - nevermind the errors, and oversights fatigued interns inevitably put into place. The direct harm to patients came second to the preservation of medical culture. There seems to be a mindset some people hold that goes along the lines of, "I had to suffer through, therefore you should too if you want to get where I am."

In many specialties there are now limits on the number of hours interns are allowed to work in a given week.

I would like to see the sport of wrestling ask, "what would be weigh-in procedure for the participants health?"  And then create incentives to make that the most likely outcome. I think the bigger the gap between weigh-in and the start of a match the greater the incentive to attempt a deep cut.

[NYupstate]

13 hours ago, Caveira said:

Heavy knee brace?

Personally, I would have weigh-in happen when on deck or double deck. Wrestler would wear shoes and singlet. Then put on braces or other wraps. 

Or maybe if one needs a heavy brace that is an indicator to not wrestle that day... 

That is a good question though.

[AgaveMaria]

18 hours ago, Jim L said:

Most of those sports are not sponsored by US high schools, so this lead to a relatively small number of athletes participating.

Even at the senior level, athletes in those sports do not cut the amount wrestlers do, with the exception of MMA.

Boxing weigt cutting is big. Much like wrestling in that regard.

Weight is even a big deal in Formula 1 racing.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/explained-why-hamilton-leclerc-and-gasly-were-all-disqualified-from-the.nsIhJiryzl2pV3OAzyWrm

George Russel was stripped of a win because his car came in under the minimum weight.

Edited April 11 by AgaveMaria

[Gene Mills Fan]

My weight cut was totally decided on by me to get my best results. Not easy but I learned nutrition, calorie count, portion allotment, and a work ethic to deal with the consequences of not paying attention to the previous. If the cut is determined by anyone but the individual it is unquestionably bad human behavior. We know this happens is there a way to only callout the bad behavior. I don't think we have a dual and find out there will be 4 forfeits after the crowd is assembled. I don't think kids need to be publicly condemned by a partial crowd because they slipped and drank missed by a quarter and didn't have an hour to just pee. I can see where team loyalty and pressures leads to the bad behavior.

[Winners Circle]

15 hours ago, ionel said:

ahh ... some of them are bumping up for competition.  When was the last time you saw that in college? 

Who's bumping up for the biggest events? Yes some bump up when the level of competition is low. But I don't see many bumping for S32, Fargo, Ironman, etc. 

[Winners Circle]

2 hours ago, NYupstate said:

This take reminds me a lot about the way doctors I know talk about the way residency "used to be". There was a culture issue that caused the old guard to cling to their belief that 120 or 130 work weeks toughened them up and prepared them for the practice of medicine - nevermind the errors, and oversights fatigued interns inevitably put into place. The direct harm to patients came second to the preservation of medical culture. There seems to be a mindset some people hold that goes along the lines of, "I had to suffer through, therefore you should too if you want to get where I am."

In many specialties there are now limits on the number of hours interns are allowed to work in a given week.

I would like to see the sport of wrestling ask, "what would be weigh-in procedure for the participants health?"  And then create incentives to make that the most likely outcome. I think the bigger the gap between weigh-in and the start of a match the greater the incentive to attempt a deep cut.

• Where did I say anything about suffering? Lmao. 
• I'm sure in your 1 year of following the sport, you've got it all figured out. If I was you I would try to start the trend. Just don't let your son cut any weight. I'm sure everyone else who has been in the sport much longer than 1 year will follow. 

[Dark Energy]

19 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

• Where did I say anything about suffering? Lmao. 
• I'm sure in your 1 year of following the sport, you've got it all figured out. If I was you I would try to start the trend. Just don't let your son cut any weight. I'm sure everyone else who has been in the sport much longer than 1 year will follow. 

I’ve been around the sport for decades.  I agree with him.  Sometimes a new, fresh perspective can provide for excellent / simple questions that can challenge the ‘this is how it’s done’ mantra.  And I love that he can step back and keep track of higher priorities.  Some here have warped priorities.

[Winners Circle]

5 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

I’ve been around the sport for decades.  I agree with him.  Sometimes a new, fresh perspective can provide for excellent / simple questions that can challenge the ‘this is how it’s done’ mantra.  And I love that he can step back and keep track of higher priorities.  Some here have warped priorities.

I never once said anything about suffering to make weight. The college men (and high level HS kids) are not suffering and starving themselves to make weight. Cutting weight, when done the right way, is not suffering. It's self-discipline and dedication. Period. Won't change my stance on that. 

[Idaho]

 

13 hours ago, boconnell said:

Great questions and they promote good discussion.

We do weighins for each day of competition.  For duals it's an hour before.  For tournaments it's usually 1-2 hours before the start.  We don't have any tournaments where you wrestle only the finals on the final day.  But you could have a decent gap before the semis (maybe noon).  

I think the rules could absolutely be improved.  I think trying to promote less weight cutting in HS is good.  The team I coach in Washington might seriously cut less weight than any decent team in the state.  I don't like weight cutting.  I just don't think it's matside weighins or you're prioritizing the lineup over a kid's best interest.

Yep - that's an NFHS rule - 1 hour max before duals and 2 hour max before tourney. Weigh-ins every day of a tourney with a 1 lb allowance multiple day tournaments. Weight management and weigh in regulations have come a long way over the years. "Back in my day" we could cut up until my weight class got on the scale, we had a sauna in our locker room, there was no certification... and there were many times I paid for that. 

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/239f-3089848/NFHS-WR-Rulebook.pdf

Idaho HS weight management: https://idhsaa.org/asset/WRESTLING/Wrestling 24-25.pdf

No matter what rules you have, there will always be kids who will cut a lot of weight and coaches who will probably be ok with that. If they end up wrestling in college hopefully they figure out that the way they cut weight will directly affect their performance and outcomes. I know at Oregon State they do a pretty good job of focusing on nutrition and healthy weight management because they know it affects performance. It's actually a part of their budget to provide this to the wrestlers. 

 

[Elevator]

12 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Again, it is a needless distraction.  Too much of the ‘sport’ is who is the better weight cutter.  
 

We all know it is the worst part of the sport.  Makes other kids think the sport is crazy / stupid.  Makes the wrestlers miserable.  
 

Stresses out parents.  My wife was so pissed at my son’s cuts.  I was too.  Nothing crazy.  But eat your dinner!!!

Yes - the sport has some areas where there is room for improvement.  Long time in the gym waiitng for ver short time on the mat in youth wreslting can be a problem too.    Kids want to have fun and waiting inh a gym is not much fun.

[davenowa]

just to be clear, NFHS Rule 4.5.1 states "...a MAXIMUM of 1 hour before the start of a dual meet."  It does NOT state exactly 1 hr, and no minimum is listed. As the host school, coach could decree that the match will start at 6pm...and we are weighing in after warm-ups, after the anthem at 5:45.  Now go put your shoes back on and let's wrestle.

[NYupstate]

1 hour ago, Winners Circle said:

• Where did I say anything about suffering? Lmao. 
• I'm sure in your 1 year of following the sport, you've got it all figured out. If I was you I would try to start the trend. Just don't let your son cut any weight. I'm sure everyone else who has been in the sport much longer than 1 year will follow. 

I am glad to hear you didn't suffer and that you don't advocate it. 

The admiration I hear in the way some guys talk about, "that was a really tough cut", is a turn-off to me around the sport. That is what I was pointing at and clearly I didn't do a good enough job of communicating it and did not mean to impugn you personally.

I don't think I claimed to have it all figured out, which is why the OP I created was framed as a question. I am sure there is a lot I don't know. If there are compelling reasons to have a time lag between weigh-in and the start of match I want to hear them so I can quiet the discomfort I have around this issue. 

 

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, NYupstate said:

I am glad to hear you didn't suffer and that you don't advocate it. 

The admiration I hear in the way some guys talk about, "that was a really tough cut", is a turn-off to me around the sport. That is what I was pointing at and clearly I didn't do a good enough job of communicating it and did not mean to impugn you personally.

I don't think I claimed to have it all figured out, which is why the OP I created was framed as a question. I am sure there is a lot I don't know. If there are compelling reasons to have a time lag between weigh-in and the start of match I want to hear them so I can quiet the discomfort I have around this issue. 

 

A 'tough cut' doesn't have to mean suffering and starving. For the college men, it means 'the dedication and self-discipline it took was tough.' WHICH IS GOOD FOR THE SPORT!! Wrestling is hard. Life is hard. Taking a hard part out of our sport will do more harm than good. 

Yes, to give the athletes time to recover after weigh-ins. Many have injuries that will require tape, heat/stimulant, braces, etc. Making them weigh-in mat side will not allow this. And if the counter argument to that is "Well weigh-in with your brace/tape/etc. on" then the athlete who is not hurt will have an even bigger advantage (on top of the advantage of not being injured).

[jross]

18 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

A 'tough cut' doesn't have to mean suffering and starving. For the college men, it means 'the dedication and self-discipline it took was tough.' WHICH IS GOOD FOR THE SPORT!! Wrestling is hard. Life is hard. Taking a hard part out of our sport will do more harm than good. 

Yes, to give the athletes time to recover after weigh-ins. Many have injuries that will require tape, heat/stimulant, braces, etc. Making them weigh-in mat side will not allow this. And if the counter argument to that is "Well weigh-in with your brace/tape/etc. on" then the athlete who is not hurt will have an even bigger advantage (on top of the advantage of not being injured).

Your point is solid... but...

Weigh in with all equipment included, no loopholes, keep it simple. It 'builds character' for athletes cutting for tape or braces. Life is hard; stick to a tough rule, no weight allowances or soft fixes. It's easy at 157 if you're 155, gear's no issue. But cutting from 155 to 148 for 149 with gear? That extra pound shows grit.  Weight class gaps already allow size advantages...

 

[Phantom]

On 4/10/2025 at 7:38 AM, Gene Mills Fan said:

there used to be cheeks exposed

....sometimes with an over the shoulder cheek lift involved, if the hard lean in the sweet spot wasn't working..every scale had a "sweet spot"