Are there teams that are fully ‘loyal’ to their wrestlers

[Dark Energy]

Do you believe there are teams / coaches that would not ‘accept’ a transfer that has a good chance of beating a current wrestler on the team who has shown commitment / desire / heart  — no matter how good the current wrestler is?

 

By ‘accept’ I mean be supportive of the wrestler transferring in and help to make it happen.

Again, current wrestler is bought in and working hard.  Not a slouch.

 

 

 

[ionel]

You sure you don't mean are there wrestlers fully loyal to their teams?  

Or maybe that something entirely different.

[lisa morales]

Most D1 teams are filled with practice dummies who have no chance of wrestlng.  

[ionel]

Just now, lisa morales said:

Most D1 teams are filled with practice dummies who have no chance of wrestlng.  

But they signed up at that university to get an education correct or did they just sign up for Pummle U?  

[DaRabbit]

I believe Coach Hahn let the team decide if the 4 Iowa boys could join or not. So yes, there are coaches who are loyal to their current wrestlers.


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[MPhillips]

Ryan has been accused of being too loyal.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Iowa

[Gene Mills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Iowa

Thank you, I love you Jimmy!!

[Elevator]

Harvard seems pretty loyal.

[Fletcher]

3 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Do you believe there are teams / coaches that would not ‘accept’ a transfer that has a good chance of beating a current wrestler on the team who has shown commitment / desire / heart  — no matter how good the current wrestler is?

 

By ‘accept’ I mean be supportive of the wrestler transferring in and help to make it happen.

Again, current wrestler is bought in and working hard.  Not a slouch.

 

 

 

Well, there's PSU. Oh, wait...

[Alces Alces Gigas]

Loyal to their wrestlers? Or loyal to their presumed stud starters?  

 

Nobody says a word when wrestlers with a 3-20 record are recruited over!  

[swoopdown]

All that have programs and provide a platform to compete are loyal.  Only schools that dropped programs have been disloyal.  

If you are a wrestler that expects more than a chance to compete you are an entitled, whining butt-hurt tiny ass.

[Idaho]

3 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Do you believe there are teams / coaches that would not ‘accept’ a transfer that has a good chance of beating a current wrestler on the team who has shown commitment / desire / heart  — no matter how good the current wrestler is?

I don't think this is a simple answer. First, a majority of wrestlers are sought by the 3rd party of the school,  not the wrestler seeking out the school. Notice I said majority, not all.  What level of schools are we talking about? This varies depending on the school. If you have a lot of NIL money, the loyalty factor goes down because  If you need an upgrade at a weight, you just go out and pay for the guy.  If you don't have money to do that, the program has greater loyalty because they need to focus more on development and use that as a means to keep them. I think you see mid-low tier teams stick with their guys more to develop them because they have to. 

 

[BuckyBadger]

Yeah, the teams with no money for NIL, and that can only offer partial scholarships are pretty loyally 

Edited Saturday at 05:30 PM by BuckyBadger

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, DaRabbit said:

I believe Coach Hahn let the team decide if the 4 Iowa boys could join or not. So yes, there are coaches who are loyal to their current wrestlers.


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How does this work?  He brought in 4 potential new starters but because the team was okay with it, it was loyal to the guys getting replaced?  Absurd.  Loyal would be letting the guys who are being replaced decide.  

But to be clear the idea of loyalty equaling not allowing better wrestlers on the team is absurd.  The guy who made this thread is clearly trying to show that and did a pretty good job.

[Dark Energy]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

How does this work?  He brought in 4 potential new starters but because the team was okay with it, it was loyal to the guys getting replaced?  Absurd.  Loyal would be letting the guys who are being replaced decide.  

But to be clear the idea of loyalty equaling not allowing better wrestlers on the team is absurd.  The guy who made this thread is clearly trying to show that and did a pretty good job.

Wait, how would you define loyalty?  I am loyal to my wife.  I will not slide in a new one to replace her.  I am loyal to my country, I will not pledge to another.  How do you define loyalty?  I recognize others may not define it the same.

Back to other comments - seems like most are saying if the program has resources, generally no. 

Super interesting about talking to your team about bringing in a transfer.  Really taking their input as a truly important part of the decision is something that I’d say fits in the loyalty bucket.  

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Wait, how would you define loyalty?  I am loyal to my wife.  I will not slide in a new one to replace her.  I am loyal to my country, I will not pledge to another.  How do you define loyalty?  I recognize others may not define it the same.

Back to other comments - seems like most are saying if the program has resources, generally no. 

Super interesting about talking to your team about bringing in a transfer.  Really taking their input as a truly important part of the decision is something that I’d say fits in the loyalty bucket.  

I'd define it by the meaning of the word.  I don't get to choose a new definition then what it actually means.  So in other words, the way you're defining it.  

The idea that Hahn was loyal to those wrestlers is dumb.  He was loyal to the team.  That's why he asked the team.  All of these coaches are loyal to the team and what's best for the team (in part because of how what's best for the team mostly lines up with what's best for them).  The idea that a coach should be loyal to an individual wrestler over other individual wrestlers or to the team as a whole is dumb.  Cael Sanderson owes loyalty to the PSU wrestling team.  Not to every individual PSU wrestler in all situations.  If he owed loyalty to every individual wrestler regardless of context, then he'd make it about 15 minutes before those individual loyalties would conflict.  For example, he recruited Ryder with Jack Kelly on the roster.  Nobody cared that he recruited a better wrestler over a worse wrestler.  But now that's a big deal and it's disloyal because he owes the job to the guy who was brought in over someone else initially. 

This sport is built on the best guy winning the spot.  The idea that a coach is supposed to counteract that and keep better wrestlers off the team is dumb.  It's hand wringing from fans who want to find ways to make big teams that they don't root for into bad guys.  

[Lunaticfringe]

The best teams who have done it without as many transfers

Northern Iowa

Nebraska

Illinois

Cornell

Ohio st

 

Very few transfers for being top 10

 

Iowa

Oklahoma St

 

Will do anything to win because of big boosters controlling the program

[flyingcement]

23 minutes ago, Lunaticfringe said:

The best teams who have done it without as many transfers

Northern Iowa

Nebraska

Illinois

Cornell

Ohio st

 

Very few transfers for being top 10

 

Iowa

Oklahoma St

 

Will do anything to win because of big boosters controlling the program

Add Missouri and NC State as teams that do not typically tap into the portal, but consistently put out a great team

[ionel]

22 minutes ago, Lunaticfringe said:

 

Iowa

Oklahoma St

 

Will do anything to win because of big boosters controlling the program

ahh ... you are missing the big one.  Penn St was the start of the big booster money approach.  

[Gene Mills Fan]

Poaching:  these are now, wanting to get paid, athletes. kids who can go wherever they want for whatever they decide.

 Loyalty: after 30 years you get a hand shake and a watch and pension only if you were one of the lucky ones

Oh and I've been drinking

Edited Saturday at 11:42 PM by Gene Mills Fan

[Dark Energy]

@boconnell you make fair points.  A reason for making the thread was that I was seeing a lot of heat towards Penn State and I wondered whether others thought there were teams that would NOT recruit/ actively welcome transfer wrestlers over wrestlers who had already committed to the program from day 1, invested time / energy, created a life in the program, and showed strong character and were a great teammate.  
 

I think most will say no.  There are not programs like that if a good transfer comes along.  
 

Some are pointing out programs that haven’t had many transfers, but I’m thinking it is because they weren’t attractive to the transfers, perhaps because the program didn’t have resources to provide.  If the program had the resources they would be happy to use them to get / attract transfers.  
 

These programs wouldn’t say ‘no thanks, we have our guy and we are loyal to him.’

If I’m right, Penn State doesn’t deserve to be singled out as the whole system is like this. 

 

 

[Alces Alces Gigas]

Any team that replaces an upper classman with a new recruit (be it portal or freshman ) shows disloyalty towards existing athletes.

[BigRedFan]

9 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

@boconnell you make fair points.  A reason for making the thread was that I was seeing a lot of heat towards Penn State and I wondered whether others thought there were teams that would NOT recruit/ actively welcome transfer wrestlers over wrestlers who had already committed to the program from day 1, invested time / energy, created a life in the program, and showed strong character and were a great teammate.  
 

I think most will say no.  There are not programs like that if a good transfer comes along.  
 

Some are pointing out programs that haven’t had many transfers, but I’m thinking it is because they weren’t attractive to the transfers, perhaps because the program didn’t have resources to provide.  If the program had the resources they would be happy to use them to get / attract transfers.  
 

These programs wouldn’t say ‘no thanks, we have our guy and we are loyal to him.’

If I’m right, Penn State doesn’t deserve to be singled out as the whole system is like this. 

 

 

Transfers into the Ivy League for wrestling (or, for that matter, just about any other sport!) are exceedingly rare (can only think of one who transferred from Minnesota to Cornell).  Call that loyalty or not.

[jdalu75]

30 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

Transfers into the Ivy League for wrestling (or, for that matter, just about any other sport!) are exceedingly rare (can only think of one who transferred from Minnesota to Cornell).  Call that loyalty or not.

I can think of a few others (Henson twins from Nebraska to Penn, Matt Greenberg from Columbia to Cornell, Rost Aizenberg from a JC to Cornell, I think Corey Anderson started somewhere else) but not recent.  As you say, rare.

Edited yesterday at 12:26 PM by jdalu75