National Duals Qualifications announced

[ionel]

16 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

My point is that everyone calls this the "national" duals. That words means something that does not apply here. 

What if we just call it:

Carl's Competitors Duals or

Chad's Chump Duals

[Gene Mills Fan]

16 hours ago, okokzach said:

 

Brother, what is your point?

A real roster for the majority of these teams is not final until January and February. It does not determine THE National Dual Champion for the season ending 3 months from then.   

Its only the tournament names connotation thats bad!

Edited April 16 by Gene Mills Fan

[okokzach]

22 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

A real roster for the majority of these teams is not final until January and February. It does not determine THE National Dual Champion for the season ending 3 months from then.   

When guys get hurt in January and February and have to miss the postseason, we can say they don't have their real roster, and we can also dismiss what happens at NCAAs, right? Lucas Byrd doesn't get to call himself champion because Ryan Crookham wasn't in the tournament, right? No. Like any other time, you go with the best guys available and the results are the results.

Lots of guys are worn down by March and aren't the best version of themselves. Again, we don't discount the NCAAs because of it. 

There is no utopian scenario to get a perfect outcome. You can quibble with things like the date, or the selection criteria, or name of the event ... Or you can appreciate that there are people trying to make this sport bigger and putting their money where their mouth is to make it happen. And appreciate the fact that all these teams want to show up and COMPETE and put on a show for the fans. 

Edited April 16 by okokzach

[Fletcher]

13 hours ago, VakAttack said:

I'm not surprised that Penn State isn't doing this.  I'm a little surprised at what salty b I t c h e s some of the fans are being about the event daring to exist. 

At the urging of @Pinnacle this event is hereby renamed the "Salty Bitch Duals"

[Gene Mills Fan]

10 minutes ago, okokzach said:

When guys get hurt in January and February and have to miss the postseason, we can say they don't have their real roster, and we can also dismiss what happens at NCAAs, right? Lucas Byrd doesn't get to call himself champion because Ryan Crookham wasn't in the tournament, right? No. Like any other time, you go with the best guys available and the results are the results.

Lots of guys are worn down by March and aren't the best version of themselves. Again, we don't discount the NCAAs because of it. 

There is no utopian scenario to get a perfect outcome. You can quibble with things like the date, or the selection criteria, or name of the event ... Or you can appreciate that there are people trying to make this sport bigger and putting their money where their mouth is to make it happen. And appreciate the fact that all these teams want to show up and COMPETE and put on a show for the fans. 

All Good points but what if the top teams opt out? Just change the Name is all I'm saying.

[Dogbone]

3 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

All Good points but what if the top teams opt out? Just change the Name is all I'm saying.

The top teams was invited.    If a wrestlers is called to the mat but doesn't show up its a forfeit, you don't change the name or invalidate the guy who ended up winning.

PSU doesn't want to put their foot on the line,fine, but they don't then get to say the name should be changed.   If PSU wants to be the National Duals Invite champs then they can show up, but they are choosing to let someone else win that title.

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

All Good points but what if the top teams opt out? Just change the Name is all I'm saying.

But the top "teams" haven't opted out, only one has.  It's not called the Top Teams Duals it's the National Duals and all the top teams in the nation are invited.  

[bnwtwg]

Carl: "You got a plan or something?"

Magic Man: "Yes, it's a very popular plan with buy-in from fans, coaches, and wrestlers. Your program is invited as the guest of honor."

Carl: "I don't like your plan that's stupid."

[Gene Mills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

The top teams was invited.    If a wrestlers is called to the mat but doesn't show up its a forfeit, you don't change the name or invalidate the guy who ended up winning.

PSU doesn't want to put their foot on the line,fine, but they don't then get to say the name should be changed.   If PSU wants to be the National Duals Invite champs then they can show up, but they are choosing to let someone else win that title.

I'm good with Invite    Good call

[Danny Deck]

17 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

My point is that everyone calls this the "national" duals. That words means something that does not apply here. 

Have you checked out the web address of this event?

 

https://nationaldualsinvitational.com/

[bnwtwg]

Seeing Caliendo/Iowa as the face of the tourney with an OkSt guy hanging his head in defeat was not the image I expected

[alex1fly]

The name is part of the package to build hype and it's working. If you change the name it risks becoming another poorly attended barely viewed tournament like Scuffle or CKLV and then all folks complaining about the name will complain about how it should have been marketed better. National Dual Championships is dope and exciting, I don't care who hosts it but wrestling fans are going to tune in and hopefully casuals will too!

[MMR52000]

As a Penn State fan and alumni, I really don't understand the hatred towards this event.  I get why Cael will say no, the timing of it doesn't really make any sense, but the current wrestling season calendar doesn't either.  If you have a team full of kids attempting to make world teams throughout the fall, they likely aren't "optimized" to compete in early November.  This being said, as a wrestling fan, why would you not want to see at least most of the nations top teams compete.  Particularly in a dual meet setting.

[swoopdown]

4 hours ago, MMR52000 said:

As a Penn State fan and alumni, I really don't understand the hatred towards this event.  I get why Cael will say no, the timing of it doesn't really make any sense, but the current wrestling season calendar doesn't either.  If you have a team full of kids attempting to make world teams throughout the fall, they likely aren't "optimized" to compete in early November.  This being said, as a wrestling fan, why would you not want to see at least most of the nations top teams compete.  Particularly in a dual meet setting.

Do you believe that most PSU fans hate the event?  I've never had anyone express any hatred to me.

[MMR52000]

15 minutes ago, swoopdown said:

Do you believe that most PSU fans hate the event?  I've never had anyone express any hatred to me.

Maybe hate is the wrong word. But certainly a lot of putting down the event or making it seem if PSU isn’t there that it’s not worth having.  That’s the sentiment I get in my circles. 

Edited April 16 by MMR52000

[Caveira]

9 hours ago, Dogbone said:

It's certainly their choice, but there is no need for them to make comments like its not a real national duals or downplay the event because they didn't accept the invitation.

It's a chance to grow the sport and create a cool event.  .  Cael doesn't think it helps his team win NCAAs in March so they are not going regardless of the impact it could have. 

I agree it's fine that they don't want to go, but its telling that everyone thinks this is a good idea.

They argued earlier in the year.   They (psu fans) that growing the sport was wrestling that tomato can early season schedule.   So it is just them being them.   

[Caveira]

6 hours ago, MMR52000 said:

As a Penn State fan and alumni, I really don't understand the hatred towards this event.  I get why Cael will say no, the timing of it doesn't really make any sense, but the current wrestling season calendar doesn't either.  If you have a team full of kids attempting to make world teams throughout the fall, they likely aren't "optimized" to compete in early November.  This being said, as a wrestling fan, why would you not want to see at least most of the nations top teams compete.  Particularly in a dual meet setting.

Is there a short list of psu wrestlers that intended to wrestle that specific season try to qualify for worlds?

[Wrestleknownothing]

39 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Is there a short list of psu wrestlers that intended to wrestle that specific season try to qualify for worlds?

No, it is a long list.

[Caveira]

9 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

No, it is a long list.

Ok. List it?

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Ok. List it?

I don't know what it is, I just know it is 12 long per Casey Cunningham's email today.

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Ok. List it?

Realistic?

Lilledahl

Misslebrank

Haines

Mirasola

Welsh

Might (probably) forgot someone. U23 is always a domestic and international crapshoot... some years Hendrickson is the man, other years Richie Lewis is the world champ.

ETA: Lilledahl will probably get better domestic and international competition at juniors

Edited April 17 by bnwtwg

[ionel]

31 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Realistic?

Lilledahl

Misslebrank

Haines

Mirasola

Welsh

 

I like it.  

[Pinnacle]

11 hours ago, Danny Deck said:

Have you checked out the web address of this event?

 

https://nationaldualsinvitational.com/

Yes.

"Sponsored by Paycom" 

"Paycom Duals" 

Pretty much the same thing. 

Btw, I dont hate the event. Its a re hash of the old event. No big deal. It is funny that people get worked up because I call it by the sponsor's name.

Edited April 17 by Pinnacle

[okokzach]

5 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Yes.

"Sponsored by Paycom" 

"Paycom Duals" 

Pretty much the same thing. 

Btw, I dont hate the event. Its a re hash of the old event. No big deal. It is funny that people get worked up because I call it by the sponsor's name.

You just look like a clown trying to diminish it using a grade school tactic... 

[BAC]

I'm hard pressed to see why what Cael's beef is here.  I get that he's a traditionalist who doesn't want to see March's significance diluted, but this is a private invitational, not an NCAA sanctioned event.

The only rationale I can come up with for PSU/Cael's refusal is that if they go, and the event is popular, then its legitimacy may carry over to a renewal of demands that there be two separate NCAA championships (dual and individual) and/or that the National Duals results factor into the March individual NCAAs.  

But that's probably not it, as I think Cael's opposition to National Duals predates the efforts to get it NCAA sanctioned.  Besides, other coaches that were opposed to a NCAA-sanctioned dual championship are participating. So... I dunno.

I do wonder how long they can hold out, though.  If this ends up being a big and popular event, with all the top teams, then PSU will be even further behind than they already are in the number of competitions their guys get.  It could be a tiebreaker in recruiting too.  Can't imagine the guys on the team are thrilled about being left out either. Hopefully the event's a big success and Cael gives in next year.