Welsh to PSU makes no sense

[One8alpha]

17 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

My opinion, and I guess it is beginning to seem like an outdated view, is that you shouldn't being in guys from the portal when you already have someone. 

Why take Welsh when you have Ryder, a U20 silver medalist. Oh an Will Henckel will have overlapping eligibility with everyone too. Oh, and Connor Mirasola is coming out of redshirt at 197 And Josh Barr isn't going down to 184 to make that work.

Why take Ono when you have Marcus Blaze, two AAs at 133, and a Nate Desmond who will be stuck behind Lilledahl, and Lilledahl might even need to go up to 133 in the future. 

Carl is selling memberships to the Penn State wrestling room, and that seems to be all that these kids care about. Blue chip recruits are going to continue to lose years of eligibility there, and they think they are better for it. 

If you got out of your own way, you might start to understand why kids want to go there.  Being an all american or an accolade doesnt define you as a pesron. Fans love it and cant understand the mentality because for most of them, being an all american,  would be life defining.  Listen to interviews with PSU wrestlers and coaches.  Its about being the best version of yourself, growth and what lies ahead in life.   Most cant recall who was an all american from year to year.  If the true goal is to be a national champ, then psu is the place to be.  If you can beat the returner or upcomer in the room, then your on your way.  If you tranfer because you cant, then your walking away from the best to get beat by them down the road.  If being an all american is your dream, then transferring would make sense.  The type of guys in that room and the ones that want to go there are not built that way.  The Tom Ryan story of going to Iowa is an example of this mentality. 

[BarSeries]

34 minutes ago, Cowboy08 said:

What weight is PJ Duke projected at?  Kid has been an absolute menace in high school and I feel like he is an afterthought as a PSU recruit even as the #1 prospect lol

He is a hammer, but where is he even going to fit in the lineup?

[Caveira]

5 hours ago, cl415 said:

Right PSU has never actually recruited a transfer. Anyone who has ever came to PSU via the portal (including the UWW portal) actually recruited Cael.

I just don’t believe that for a second.  

[PortaJohn]

A lot of valid and great points being made on this PSU topic.  Just adding that it is possible that a lot of these wrestlers aren't as invested in folk style as they are in believing PSU is the place to achieve international success.  Take Luke for instance who is on record saying winning an Olympic gold is his main objective.  

 

[WrestlingRasta]

Maybe there is actually some truth to their claims that the goals in that room are bigger than the NCAA's and these kids feel that room is the best path to those goals even if it means missing a couple NCAA tournaments to get there.  Is there any room outside of Dagestan with more olympic and world gold and other medals?

 

EDIT: yeah.....what portajohn said 

Edited Friday at 01:08 PM by WrestlingRasta

[cl415]

46 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I just don’t believe that for a second.  

I don’t either. It was an attempt at sarcasm because that is the line we are sold every time. 

[1032004]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Maybe there is actually some truth to their claims that the goals in that room are bigger than the NCAA's and these kids feel that room is the best path to those goals even if it means missing a couple NCAA tournaments to get there.  Is there any room outside of Dagestan with more olympic and world gold and other medals?

 

EDIT: yeah.....what portajohn said 

If you can’t start at Penn State, you probably aren’t winning Olympic gold

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

If you can’t start at Penn State, you probably aren’t winning Olympic gold

If you are not the starter at Penn State, it is more likely than not that there is a multi national champ or 3-4 x all american in your weight.  Would you like to research a list of people who did not win multiple national championships, but did win world and olympic medals?

Further, even if you are not the starter at Penn State, it is even more likely that you are going to have better training and better coaching than in any other room.  

Edited Friday at 04:55 PM by WrestlingRasta

[juniorvarsity]

4 hours ago, One8alpha said:

If you got out of your own way, you might start to understand why kids want to go there.  Being an all american or an accolade doesnt define you as a pesron. Fans love it and cant understand the mentality because for most of them, being an all american,  would be life defining.  Listen to interviews with PSU wrestlers and coaches.  Its about being the best version of yourself, growth and what lies ahead in life.   Most cant recall who was an all american from year to year.  If the true goal is to be a national champ, then psu is the place to be.  If you can beat the returner or upcomer in the room, then your on your way.  If you tranfer because you cant, then your walking away from the best to get beat by them down the road.  If being an all american is your dream, then transferring would make sense.  The type of guys in that room and the ones that want to go there are not built that way.  The Tom Ryan story of going to Iowa is an example of this mentality. 

 

Don't be so dramatic. It is everyone's first thought and how most college kids evaluate which school to go to - is there a sport for me in the lineup? You seriously think that it is not demoralizing to these kids who go to Penn State with high hopes AND cannot make the lineup AND the guy in front of them has plenty of eligibility remaining? Cool, yeah let me stay in the room and focus on my freestyle goals. 

The kids are going to start leaving. I will concede that kids might take a chance on losing one year of eligibility to see if they can win the spot(ie Facundo), but they will leave before they lose two.

[1032004]

11 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

If you are not the starter at Penn State, it is more likely than not that there is a multi national champ or 3-4 x all american in your weight.  Would you like to research a list of people who did not win multiple national championships, but did win world and olympic medals?

Further, even if you are not the starter at Penn State, it is even more likely that you are going to have better training and better coaching than in any other room.  

Interesting that you first say “multi-national champ OR 3-4x All-American,” but then narrow your question about world and Olympic medals to only those that “did not win multiple national championships.”

Because I’m pretty sure if you change the question to those that “were not 3-4x All-Americans,” the list is pretty short.  I’m no freestyle expert, but in the last decade or so I can’t think of any besides Joe Colon, and Tervel if you go back another year. 

Which goes to my point, if you want to win a world medal, you probably need to be able to start for Penn State. 

[WrestlingRasta]

There's no point to prove here, and I'm certainly not trying to get into any manipulative word games.   The only point is that each of these kids is their own individual kid, with their own ideas and aspirations and what is going on inside their head and heart, all of which you and I and 99% of others on this board have absolutely no idea of.

If you go back and actually look at what I said without trying to be argumentative, it may be a little clearer:  people are wondering how Penn State is able to stack these kids in a room when they could be AA's elsewhere; the language, and philosophy, and culture that comes out of that room....both coaches and kids....is that it is about more and bigger than the NCAA's, in competition and in life.  Which led to my post that you had an issue with....maybe we should acknowledge there may be some truth to that.

It is not up to you or I to decide what is best for the lives of kids we don't know.  It may make you feel better in your own brain, but it is no factor in the matter. 

[Dogbone]

What's the best way to get a job post-graduation (the whole point of going to college)?   If you are leaving wresting, it probably doesn't matter.   If you want to be a wrestling coach, being a multiple time AA may look better than PSU room guy. 

If Mikey Labriola or Tony Cassioppi went to PSU to just get better at wrestling, are they currently assistant coaches in the B1G?

[MPhillips]

13 hours ago, Fletcher said:

When you can't recognize a joke, you may be a PSU alum.

Never explain yourself...

[1032004]

28 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

There's no point to prove here, and I'm certainly not trying to get into any manipulative word games.   The only point is that each of these kids is their own individual kid, with their own ideas and aspirations and what is going on inside their head and heart, all of which you and I and 99% of others on this board have absolutely no idea of.

If you go back and actually look at what I said without trying to be argumentative, it may be a little clearer:  people are wondering how Penn State is able to stack these kids in a room when they could be AA's elsewhere; the language, and philosophy, and culture that comes out of that room....both coaches and kids....is that it is about more and bigger than the NCAA's, in competition and in life.  Which led to my post that you had an issue with....maybe we should acknowledge there may be some truth to that.

It is not up to you or I to decide what is best for the lives of kids we don't know.  It may make you feel better in your own brain, but it is no factor in the matter. 

I asked a similar question earlier about post-college success of “PSU room guys.”  I was honestly curious.  I can’t think of any guys that weren’t consistent starters at PSU, did not transfer out and then had post-college international success.  So I’m more just arguing that claiming “these guys care more about Olympic medals than NCAA ones” hasn’t really worked out for guys that couldn’t start at PSU but didn’t leave.  I could certainly see the Barraclaugh route however become more frequent.  Spend 2-3 years at PSU to get as good as you can be, then go elsewhere for your last year or two so you can get on the podium and as @Dogbone said, potentially parlay that into a coaching job if that’s what they’re interested in.

[WrestlingRasta]

Joe Lee and Mason Manville have a few big pretty rings to show for their efforts.  Walling into that interview with a hand full of bling, talking about your time working with the best staff in the world, doesn’t make for a horrible interview. 

[Dogbone]

I would also add the NCAA Wrestling Tournament is the greatest event in all of wrestling and you only get 4 chances (usually) to ever do it. 

Ono won a world title in front of 1,000 people and took one look at NCAAs and said, I want to do THAT without every having wrestled a folkstyle match.  

Heck, as Dake and Gillman showed, you don't even have to wrestle at PSU to go train at NWLC and achieve world level success.

If these guys want to go be room guys and be apart of a winning team, then good for them.  I hope it gets them whatever they want in life and they don't have any regrets.

[MPhillips]

3 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Ono won a world title in front of 1,000 people and took one look at NCAAs and said, I want to do THAT without every having wrestled a folkstyle match.  

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

I would also add the NCAA Wrestling Tournament is the greatest event in all of wrestling and you only get 4 chances (usually) to ever do it. 

Ono won a world title in front of 1,000 people and took one look at NCAAs and said, I want to do THAT without every having wrestled a folkstyle match.  

Heck, as Dake and Gillman showed, you don't even have to wrestle at PSU to go train at NWLC and achieve world level success.

If these guys want to go be room guys and be apart of a winning team, then good for them.  I hope it gets them whatever they want in life and they don't have any regrets.

It feels like it would be really hard to cheer against Ono but if he is wearing a blue singlet with a silly white stripe then I'll try.  

[CHROMEBIRD]

2 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

It kinda sucks that Nolf isn't around the PSU room anymore. He and Ono would probably get along as genuine students of the sport. MM too, but he probably says weird things when he speaks and would confuse Ono.

[MPhillips]

18 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

he probably says weird things when he speaks

[1032004]

54 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Joe Lee and Mason Manville have a few big pretty rings to show for their efforts.  Walling into that interview with a hand full of bling, talking about your time working with the best staff in the world, doesn’t make for a horrible interview. 

Not horrible, but having one less ring, an AA trophy, and the same knowledge from working with that staff would be better.

[WrestlingRasta]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Not horrible, but having one less ring, an AA trophy, and the same knowledge from working with that staff would be better.

Are you sure?  You’re also in the minds of the AD’s and know what you would be looking for if you had interviews lined up today with Bearclaw and Joe Lee?   Or are you experienced enough in the field to know that one is automatically over the other?  Do you think an AD looking for a long term resolution might give any weight to staying vs not staying? 
 

We could go on all day back and forth.  The bottom line is you and I don’t know what is best for each individual kid and their decisions.  All I am saying is to answer the question put forth here, maybe we should just listen to what those very individuals are telling us, instead of wanting to argue they are wrong in their decisions. It’s not me saying this is why they want to be in that room, it’s them. 

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

We could go on all day back and forth.

Shouldn't three paragraphs about wrap it up?

[WrestlingRasta]

11 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Shouldn't three paragraphs about wrap it up?

No one is required to read them. 

[1032004]

19 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Are you sure?  You’re also in the minds of the AD’s and know what you would be looking for if you had interviews lined up today with Bearclaw and Joe Lee?   Or are you experienced enough in the field to know that one is automatically over the other?  Do you think an AD looking for a long term resolution might give any weight to staying vs not staying? 
 

We could go on all day back and forth.  The bottom line is you and I don’t know what is best for each individual kid and their decisions.  All I am saying is to answer the question put forth here, maybe we should just listen to what those very individuals are telling us, instead of wanting to argue they are wrong in their decisions. It’s not me saying this is why they want to be in that room, it’s them. 

I’m not saying the kids are wrong for choosing something.   My point originally was mostly just to say that if someone can’t start at Penn State, they’re probably not winning an Olympic medal.  Whether they stay at Penn State or not.  And I stand by that.   And outside of Olympic dreams, obviously there are a lot of guys that would rather be a backup at Penn State than a starter somewhere else.  And there’s nothing wrong with that.  But when it comes to AA-level talent or close to it, recent history seems to show that its probably more common now for those types of guys to leave than stay (Beard, Barraclaugh, Facundo, Evans, Seth Nevills, etc)