Penn State Dominance

[Ragu]

With news the news that Ono just committed and now James flips his commitment PSU might just stay as dominant as they've been the last two years for the next 5. I am a Cornell fan but first and foremost I am a fan of good ass wrestling and they have that. This forum, unless you’re a Penn State fan, is very anti-Penn State. I was just wondering how everyone, who was alive for the time, felt during Iowa’s dominance in the 80s and 90s? Was there this much complaining? I honestly am glad to alive at the same time as this amazing dynasty (can’t say the same for the Chiefs dynasty) and it doesn't look to stop soon

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

For context:

Oklahoma State has won 34 team titles.

Iowa has won 24 team titles, including a streak of 9 in a row from 1978 to 1986.

Penn State has *only* won 13 team titles.

[Elevator]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

For context:

Oklahoma State has won 34 team titles.

Iowa has won 24 team titles, including a streak of 9 in a row from 1978 to 1986.

Penn State has *only* won 13 team titles.

PSU are slackers and have a lot of work to do.

[Dogbone]

There weren't message boards during Iowa's run (that I am aware of) so it's tough to judge as I don't know how fans communicated except in person.  But, anytime an Iowa wrestler lost at NCAAs, the entire arena cheered except for the Iowa section.  It felt like everyone was against Iowa.  

[Ragu]

5 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

There It felt like everyone was against Iowa.  

Some things never change

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

15 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

There weren't message boards during Iowa's run (that I am aware of) so it's tough to judge as I don't know how fans communicated except in person.  But, anytime an Iowa wrestler lost at NCAAs, the entire arena cheered except for the Iowa section.  It felt like everyone was against Iowa.  

Jackals!

[mad_rascal]

I've come to terms with it (Penn States dominance) and even rooted for some of them in this tourney. That said, I definitely think teams will challenge them going forward. Sure PSU reset the record for points, but it felt like the rest of the schools jabbed back some. Had a great time following the full team standings this year. While last year was a little depressing.

Don't crown 'em for next year just yet, but they do look pretty good.

[Ragu]

16 minutes ago, mad_rascal said:

I've come to terms with it (Penn States dominance) and even rooted for some of them in this tourney. That said, I definitely think teams will challenge them going forward. Sure PSU reset the record for points, but it felt like the rest of the schools jabbed back some. Had a great time following the full team standings this year. While last year was a little depressing.

Don't crown 'em for next year just yet, but they do look pretty good.

I don’t foresee anyone sniffing them next year

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

For context:

Oklahoma State has won 34 team titles.

Iowa has won 24 team titles, including a streak of 9 in a row from 1978 to 1986.

Penn State has *only* won 13 team titles.

Oh...so should he have asked what the general feeling was toward Oklahoma State in the 1930s and 40s? 

 

We ALL know who has the most titles Jimmy. The QUESTION was about the feeling people in the community had when Iowa was dominating as...presumably, there aren't a WHOLE lot of people on here regularly commenting from the pre WW2 Era when Oklahoma State started to dominate...

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Dogbone said:

There weren't message boards during Iowa's run (that I am aware of) so it's tough to judge as I don't know how fans communicated except in person.  But, anytime an Iowa wrestler lost at NCAAs, the entire arena cheered except for the Iowa section.  It felt like everyone was against Iowa.  

That's why my old coach said.

He was Wrestling an Iowa guy and...I don't recall where they were Wrestling, but it wasn't an Iowa friendly crowd. He got hit with...a BAD stall call vs the #2 see in the final 10-20 seconds(I've seen the tape, but it's not exactly HD). That made it 4-4(or maybe 5-5, but it tied it).

He said he heard the whole plays erupt in boos and he looked around to see what happened. Like maybe someone was getting pinned or whatever. And then he realized, it was...him and his match.

 

So...I'd bet it was probably even more animosity vs PSU. 

 

 

I'm at the point with PSU where I'm not a fan, but how can you not just marvel at what they're doing? Going into the this years tournament, the one guy I didn't think had a chance to win a Title...was the defending National Champ.  I didn't THINK Davis would. I did pick Barr 2nd and he damn near won it, but...the other 8? Who'd have been a surprise? I'm more surprised they DIDN'T win at '57, '74, mildly surprised they didn't win at '25 and I really thought Van Ness would win. 

 

It is a joke at this point. That '26 class is as good of a top 3 as we've seen in a while, so if this kid is the 4th rated recruit...I don't know much about him, but guessing he's solid! They're already gonna have trouble getting Duke, Henkel, Cunningham into the lineup, now this kid. I'm honestly waiting to see Sadulaev and Taz decide 'we want very much become American students.' Sad cuts to '97, Taz...well, I'm thinking he can wrestle at ~225 and do just fine. 

 

Cael won't quite until they go 10-10. National Champs, every weight!

[Caveira]

Is it possible some of the anti psu comments have nothing to do with their dominance …. And something to do with the fact that they are one of the most hated fan bases in all of sports?   I mean the eagles fans universally hated when winning and losing.   Not a huge leap there.  

[Rassling2]

18 hours ago, Elevator said:

PSU are slackers and have a lot of work to do.

I watched a video on You Tube last night called “Should Iowa Replace Tom Brands” by BEG Wrestling Exclusive - about 10 minutes long. By the time it ended I was reminded why this team was always a favorite of mine - way before PSU.  As the saying goes, “figures don’t lie but liars will figure.” After watching this historical documentary of Iowa results after Brands took over, there’s no way Brands is going anywhere. 

Edited Thursday at 10:00 AM by Rassling2

[Elevator]

18 hours ago, Caveira said:

Is it possible some of the anti psu comments have nothing to do with their dominance …. And something to do with the fact that they are one of the most hated fan bases in all of sports?   I mean the eagles fans universally hated when winning and losing.   Not a huge leap there.  

People like their team/program/competitors to win.  When they do not, they tend to demonize the team/program/competitors that are doing the most winning - often positing reasons why it is unfair or improper.  Sometimes excuses are offered.  One might view the venting of Shapiro and his "wink wink" video comments in this light.  Not meaning to dismiss his medical problems, which are concerning and no doubt very real.

A cousin of this is demonizing the fan base of the top dog or dogs.  In the case of PSU, the fan base has doubtless grown with success.  Every program has some supporters who go too far.  With social media and a growing fan base it has become easier for those over the top fans to spread that kind of negative energy and for others to identify it as a hallmark of the program.  I doubt there is much difference among supporters/fans of all programs other than right now PSU fans and program will be most despised because it comes with the stunning success.   

Same is true of Eagles.  They had as many problem fans in the stands before they started winning so much hardware and even set up courts at the stadium to manage the arraignments on criminal charges for their disorderly conduct.  Now that same frnage element might be found on social media even though these people are a very small part of the fan base.  

    

[Twooooo]

Until an A. C. Slater wants to rebel against his dad, skip the military and wrestle for a PSU team, you really haven’t done crap.  Once that happens, come talk to me about how hated a fan base is. 

 

Their fans do make it unbearable this time of year but I also dislike them because Cael.  He has done nothing to help grow the sport and some would say his actions have hurt the sport more than anything.  He is one of the most disloyal coaches around and would cut his own grandma if it meant making his team a little better.  There has always been a great debate on who develops their guys better and I would make an argument that Cael would rather cut his guys than help them develop.  Of course I know this is all within his rights but he just seems like a complete tool.

[Ragu]

I didn’t know that PSU was such a hated institution outside of college wrestling. What the hell did they do to rub everyone the wrong way? Only other dominant programs were the womens volleyball team, their football program, and their arguably most dominant program fencing mens and womens

[WrestlingRasta]

23 hours ago, Ragu said:

With news the news that Ono just committed and now James flips his commitment PSU might just stay as dominant as they've been the last two years for the next 5. I am a Cornell fan but first and foremost I am a fan of good ass wrestling and they have that. This forum, unless you’re a Penn State fan, is very anti-Penn State. I was just wondering how everyone, who was alive for the time, felt during Iowa’s dominance in the 80s and 90s? Was there this much complaining? I honestly am glad to alive at the same time as this amazing dynasty (can’t say the same for the Chiefs dynasty) and it doesn't look to stop soon

In the 80's and 90's you didn't have the opportunity to say whatever you wanted behind an anonymous keyboard.  If you wanted to express some of the types of things you see here (or anything for that matter) you had to say them in person, face to face.

 

So no.......there wasn't as much.

[macwoodfleet]

5 hours ago, Twooooo said:

Until an A. C. Slater wants to rebel against his dad, skip the military and wrestle for a PSU team, you really haven’t done crap.  Once that happens, come talk to me about how hated a fan base is. 

 

Their fans do make it unbearable this time of year but I also dislike them because Cael.  He has done nothing to help grow the sport and some would say his actions have hurt the sport more than anything.  He is one of the most disloyal coaches around and would cut his own grandma if it meant making his team a little better.  There has always been a great debate on who develops their guys better and I would make an argument that Cael would rather cut his guys than help them develop.  Of course I know this is all within his rights but he just seems like a complete tool.

Yikes. Wanna know who Terrell Barraclough saluted after his final match last week? Penn State fans. Wanna know who he shared a long embrace with afterwards? Cael Sanderson.

[Twooooo]

21 minutes ago, macwoodfleet said:

Yikes. Wanna know who Terrell Barraclough saluted after his final match last week? Penn State fans. Wanna know who he shared a long embrace with afterwards? Cael Sanderson.

And this proves what?  That he was cut from PSU?  That he still holds a special place in his heart for the school he wrestled 4 years at?  It doesn’t prove anything to my post.  I said Cael was unloyal, can you tell me who Beard and Berge embraced after their final match?  Was it Cael?  Heck, AJ hugged Tom and Terry after he lost as well.  Does that prove anything?

[Wrestleknownothing]

8 minutes ago, Twooooo said:

And this proves what?  That he was cut from PSU?  That he still holds a special place in his heart for the school he wrestled 4 years at?  It doesn’t prove anything to my post.  I said Cael was unloyal, can you tell me who Beard and Berge embraced after their final match?  Was it Cael?  Heck, AJ hugged Tom and Terry after he lost as well.  Does that prove anything?

Some very bad examples here. Barraclaugh was not cut from Penn State. He graduated from Penn State with a year of eligibility left, as I am sure you know. And Berge came back to Penn State from coaching to finish his eligibility after earlier retiring due to concussions. I have no idea who hugged who though. Beard left because he was no longer the starter. That happens in every sport at every school. Quit acting like that is some evidence that Cael Sanderson lacks loyalty. It is what they all sign up for. You cite AJ hugging the Brands brothers. They had a lot of turnover last season because guys were no longer starters. It happens everywhere. It happens all the time.

[VakAttack]

6 hours ago, Ragu said:

I didn’t know that PSU was such a hated institution outside of college wrestling. What the hell did they do to rub everyone the wrong way? Only other dominant programs were the womens volleyball team, their football program, and their arguably most dominant program fencing mens and womens

[Twooooo]

36 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Some very bad examples here. Barraclaugh was not cut from Penn State. He graduated from Penn State with a year of eligibility left, as I am sure you know. And Berge came back to Penn State from coaching to finish his eligibility after earlier retiring due to concussions. I have no idea who hugged who though. Beard left because he was no longer the starter. That happens in every sport at every school. Quit acting like that is some evidence that Cael Sanderson lacks loyalty. It is what they all sign up for. You cite AJ hugging the Brands brothers. They had a lot of turnover last season because guys were no longer starters. It happens everywhere. It happens all the time.

Beard was not the starter because Cael benched him instead of trying to develop him.  But I will play the game a little, how about Alex Facundo?  Isn’t he supposed to be a top tier wrestler and isn’t he entering the portal? I could be wrong but I believe he is.  Where is the loyalty?  Seth Nevills?  Wasn’t good enough in Cael’s eyes so instead of trying to develop him further, he recruits over him and benched him.  He walks into these kids homes, tells their parents everything they want to hear like, he will be in the best hands and I will take good care of your child and once someone better comes along…sorry, you got to go.  Keep in mind I am not saying Cael does not have the right to do it but to try and say he isn’t loyal is unfair as well.

[Dogbone]

6 hours ago, Ragu said:

I didn’t know that PSU was such a hated institution outside of college wrestling. What the hell did they do to rub everyone the wrong way? Only other dominant programs were the womens volleyball team, their football program, and their arguably most dominant program fencing mens and womens

Seriously?  

[Wrestleknownothing]

22 minutes ago, Twooooo said:

Beard was not the starter because Cael benched him instead of trying to develop him.  But I will play the game a little, how about Alex Facundo?  Isn’t he supposed to be a top tier wrestler and isn’t he entering the portal? I could be wrong but I believe he is.  Where is the loyalty?  Seth Nevills?  Wasn’t good enough in Cael’s eyes so instead of trying to develop him further, he recruits over him and benched him.  He walks into these kids homes, tells their parents everything they want to hear like, he will be in the best hands and I will take good care of your child and once someone better comes along…sorry, you got to go.  Keep in mind I am not saying Cael does not have the right to do it but to try and say he isn’t loyal is unfair as well.

If your definition of a coach lacking loyalty is if a wrestler transfers out, then name a coach who is loyal. They are all disloyal by that definition. Is Brands disloyal? He brought in three one year guys and saw three wrestlers depart as a result. How about Taylor? He brought in a bunch of transfers over previous starters. What about Manning? He brought in Davis over another wrestler. How about Ryan? He had the highest ranked recruiting classes two years and those guys took spots from wrestlers who were already there.

What I am saying is your definition of loyalty is ludicrous.

[MLB9]

48 minutes ago, Twooooo said:

Beard was not the starter because Cael benched him instead of trying to develop him.  But I will play the game a little, how about Alex Facundo?  Isn’t he supposed to be a top tier wrestler and isn’t he entering the portal? I could be wrong but I believe he is.  Where is the loyalty?  Seth Nevills?  Wasn’t good enough in Cael’s eyes so instead of trying to develop him further, he recruits over him and benched him.  He walks into these kids homes, tells their parents everything they want to hear like, he will be in the best hands and I will take good care of your child and once someone better comes along…sorry, you got to go.  Keep in mind I am not saying Cael does not have the right to do it but to try and say he isn’t loyal is unfair as well.

None of that has anything to do with loyalty. You're completely misrepresenting and confusing that word with competition and performance. Our entire economy and job market is founded on the same principles. And the comments about NOT trying to develop Beard and Nevills, lol. I'm sure that was pursued at the highest level until it wasn't an option(the wrestlers left the program). 

[macwoodfleet]

3 hours ago, Twooooo said:

And this proves what?  That he was cut from PSU?  That he still holds a special place in his heart for the school he wrestled 4 years at?  It doesn’t prove anything to my post.  I said Cael was unloyal, can you tell me who Beard and Berge embraced after their final match?  Was it Cael?  Heck, AJ hugged Tom and Terry after he lost as well.  Does that prove anything?

Cael's job, what he gets paid to do, is to put the best wrestling team on the mat he can. He happens to be better than anyone else ever was at it, and you're blaming him for upgrading his roster in a way that everyone could do if they would do it.