Wrestling reform ideas

[peanut]

Shorter season. Too many athletes are visibly injured. A fix would be a shorter season — which would allow a longer period of less intense training. 

Step out. Too many athletes are wrestling at the edge.

Tiebreakers. It’s not quite as fun to watch when both guys cruise to OT.

Stand ups after one minute of riding time. Nobody needs to see more than one minute of that. 

[enterdisplayname]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:06 PM, peanut said:

Shorter season. Too many athletes are visibly injured. A fix would be a shorter season — which would allow a longer period of less intense training. 

I disagree. I don't think they need 40 matches a season, but some of those matches can be utilized to grow younger wrestlers who may be put in a starting position the next season and may have never wrestled under the lights in a high pressure situation. 

Step out. Too many athletes are wrestling at the edge.

I enjoy the edge action. I like that they're calling fleeing the mat more on the edge than in the past. I feel like its a good compromise. 

Tiebreakers. It’s not quite as fun to watch when both guys cruise to OT.

I'm not sure how you want to improve kids working to get to overtime...thats a wrestler issue, not a scoring or rule issue. 

Stand ups after one minute of riding time. Nobody needs to see more than one minute of that. 

Just put them both on their feet and go for first takedown. Turn the clock off and just go. Someone will score eventually. 

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[NormMacDonald]

No ridding time point unless you also get back points. 

Start calling guys on top for stalling if they aren't working to turn. 

[KCMO2]

Allow more leeway for refs to use common sense on the step out calls.  Seen too many matches where the guy taking all the shots gets pushed out once when he's near the edge and is hit for stalling. 

[Gene Mills Fan]

Do we need a shot clock?   

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:06 PM, peanut said:

Shorter season. Too many athletes are visibly injured. A fix would be a shorter season — which would allow a longer period of less intense training. 

Step out. Too many athletes are wrestling at the edge.

Tiebreakers. It’s not quite as fun to watch when both guys cruise to OT.

Stand ups after one minute of riding time. Nobody needs to see more than one minute of that. 

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Sounds like you'd rather just watch freestyle?

[Pablo]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:56 PM, Gene Mills Fan said:

Do we need a shot clock?   

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I was officiating a dual last year, and with one team, when I'd blow the whistle, the coach would start counting down, "10...9...8..."  I never talked to him about it, but I got the idea that he was challenging his guys that they had to make an aggressive wrestling move within 10 seconds.

They certainly were aggressive, and a lot of fun to officiate, because there wasn't any stalling.

[peanut]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:56 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Sounds like you'd rather just watch freestyle?

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I enjoy watching freestyle more, yes. Of course, in the 00s it was much worse for fans to watch. Freestyle’s willingness to change the rules so it’s more fan friendly was huge. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

  On 3/21/2025 at 3:28 PM, peanut said:

I enjoy watching freestyle more, yes. Of course, in the 00s it was much worse for fans to watch. Freestyle’s willingness to change the rules so it’s more fan friendly was huge. 

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I mean folkstyle season is only a few months a year.  Isn't there enough freestyle elsewhere for you to get your fill?

[nhs67]

Going to OT with neither wrestler having a takedown should go straight to rideouts.

[Packard]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:06 PM, peanut said:

Shorter season. Too many athletes are visibly injured. A fix would be a shorter season — which would allow a longer period of less intense training. 

Step out. Too many athletes are wrestling at the edge.

Tiebreakers. It’s not quite as fun to watch when both guys cruise to OT.

Stand ups after one minute of riding time. Nobody needs to see more than one minute of that. 

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I don’t know how I feel about a shorter season. ESPN was talking about a guy who had more wins than anybody this season - 30. Most guys in the tournament barely have 20 matches. I’d say competition has been reduced a huge amount from Cael Sanderson’s days. 
 

I would love to see more stalling called - Top, bottom, neutral. Also think a step out point would be nice. The amount of guys that back up, put their back on the line, then circle around and shoot an opponent OOBs is ridiculous. I don’t think Freestyle has become sumo at all. 
 

I love mat wrestling and think it makes us unique. I don’t want to limit that, but I think a riding point should only be awarded if you score back points as well. Add that requirement and be more aggressive calling stall on mat wrestling. Especially the top guy. 

[Caveira]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:06 PM, peanut said:

Step out. Too many athletes are wrestling at the edge.

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On these tiny little mats … where the table is basically on the mat…. converting folkstyle to boring freestyle would be great.  

[ironmonkey]

Eliminate chalkenge bricks and reviews or st least find a way to streamline them.  

 

Otherwise Folkstyle is great.  Fans don't wabt freestyle 

[CHROMEBIRD]

The reviews still grate my nerves.

[peanut]

  On 3/21/2025 at 3:29 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I mean folkstyle season is only a few months a year.  Isn't there enough freestyle elsewhere for you to get your fill?

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There's no reason to not improve folkstyle if it can be improved -- but the question will always be, what reforms would be an improvement?

[Pablo]

Make a reversal worth 3.  I don't understand why a reversal should not get the same as a TD.

Better yet, make it 4.  Make it equivalent to an esc + TD.

Call me crazy, but I think a reversal is a better wrestling move than a TD.  Better in that, it's harder to accomplish and therefore should be worth more.

It bothers me that a TD+esc is worth twice as much as just going straight from the defensive position to offense.

[Cornell Kevin]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:16 PM, NormMacDonald said:

No ridding time point unless you also get back points. 

Start calling guys on top for stalling if they aren't working to turn. 

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yes thank you 

[1032004]

  On 3/21/2025 at 6:20 PM, Pablo said:

Make a reversal worth 3.  I don't understand why a reversal should not get the same as a TD.

Better yet, make it 4.  Make it equivalent to an esc + TD.

Call me crazy, but I think a reversal is a better wrestling move than a TD.  Better in that, it's harder to accomplish and therefore should be worth more.

It bothers me that a TD+esc is worth twice as much as just going straight from the defensive position to offense.

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You’re crazy to suggest 4 for a reversal.  Not saying reversals are easy, but I think they are easier than TD’s, I think 2 is appropriate

[Dark Energy]

4 years of eligibility.  

Something needs to be done about the edge wrestling.  Seeing ideas here.  Refs are perfectly good with it.  Guy with butt preferentially to line or beyond it.  Some change is needed here.

Agreed on ride with no turn attempts.  Groan.

[Dark Energy]

4 for reversal?  Ok if you want no more mat wrestling.  TD and release will be way way more common.

[1032004]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:06 PM, peanut said:

Shorter season. Too many athletes are visibly injured. A fix would be a shorter season — which would allow a longer period of less intense training. 

Step out. Too many athletes are wrestling at the edge.

Tiebreakers. It’s not quite as fun to watch when both guys cruise to OT.

Stand ups after one minute of riding time. Nobody needs to see more than one minute of that. 

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A lot of the “visibly injured” guys ARE the ones that wrestled shorter seasons though.  I was actually thinking that this tournament seems to be evidence of the benefit of testing yourself throughout the season.  Many of the guys that did not make the finals or did not look great were the guys that sat out for extended periods or for key matches (yes some had legit injuries): Ferrari, Alirez, Figueroa, Shapiro, Teemer some notable examples

The only finalists that wrestled less than 22 matches prior to the tournament are O’Toole (20) and Steveson (18).  And of the rest, only Byrd (23), Ayala (22), and Henson (22) had less than 25.   6 finalists had 28+ matches coming in including both finalists at 141 (both of them over 30) and 157 + Spratley and Keckeisen.

[1032004]

  On 3/21/2025 at 2:06 PM, peanut said:

Shorter season. Too many athletes are visibly injured. A fix would be a shorter season — which would allow a longer period of less intense training. 

Step out. Too many athletes are wrestling at the edge.

Tiebreakers. It’s not quite as fun to watch when both guys cruise to OT.

Stand ups after one minute of riding time. Nobody needs to see more than one minute of that. 

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I’m still not crazy about step outs.  They do need more OOB space at NCAA’s though. 

I wouldn’t say stand up after one minute, but they definitely should do no riding time point unless you score nearfall.  That would be a huge improvement because guys would either actually try to turn or let them up and spare us from watching them lay on top and do nothing.

 

[jross]

  On 3/21/2025 at 6:20 PM, Pablo said:

Make a reversal worth 3.  I don't understand why a reversal should not get the same as a TD.

Better yet, make it 4.  Make it equivalent to an esc + TD.

Call me crazy, but I think a reversal is a better wrestling move than a TD.  Better in that, it's harder to accomplish and therefore should be worth more.

It bothers me that a TD+esc is worth twice as much as just going straight from the defensive position to offense.

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A reversal is not a “better”move but it is generally harder to achieve on a superior wrestler.

Why is an escape worth zero and a reversal worth one in free style?  

Points are also about incentives.  Aggressive action from neutral is exciting to watch.

Rather than increasing TD from 2 to 3, I would rather the escape had been dropped to zero.  It is fine as is.

[jross]

A reversal is theoretically more difficult because bottom man is at a disadvantage to top man.

Bottom is often easier in reality because top skill riding is not rewarded in youth.  

Most everyone is incentivized to be good from neutral.

In college, top wresting becomes more important than before.

[jross]

I’d like to see more incentives to wrestle.  A mat so big there is no out of bounds… 

I despised watching Hidlay wrestle the edge and disagree with his matcast narrated excitement about wrestlers that do work the edge.

Penalize egregious guiding out of bounds from the attacker.  But allow movement in bounds to continue scoring out of bounds.

Penalize fleeing out of bounds.