Putting Iowa in its Place

[Elevator]

Iowa had a bad B1G tourney, but a good year so far. 

Not loving the mean-spirited posts attacking Iowa on here and on other wrestling social media.   They show year after year that they are a strong and thriving program, even if you don't love their flavor of wrestling culture.  Their guys always bring it and their coaches and team work their tails off and care about the sport and their guys.  So, while I almost never pull for them in a match, respect to Iowa and their coaches even if occasionally there are some missteps.  Its part of the sport.  

NCAA wrestling is better for Iowa and their occasionally dark but always strong energy.

[AgaveMaria]

The biggest problem Iowa has is the coaches inability to move on from Dan Gable.

Jim Zalesky could not do it. Go ahead and listen to him in his pre-match talks. Try & fail.

Tom Brands can't do it. Try & fail. He is good but his inability to change his approach, to fine tune it and make it his is failing the program.

Both were great wrestlers and both good, not great coaches. Both for some reason trying to be Gable, without his tools.

Until Tom & crew move on, taking the best and incorporating a new(for them) approach & be willing to further tweak what is working - Iowa will be a top team, but not at the top. Being "the best of the rest" is where they are at and that is in danger of being lost as they flounder trying to make "same shiz, different year" work.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

38 minutes ago, Elevator said:

Iowa had a bad B1G tourney, but a good year so far. 

Not loving the mean-spirited posts attacking Iowa on here and on other wrestling social media.   They show year after year that they are a strong and thriving program, even if you don't love their flavor of wrestling culture.  Their guys always bring it and their coaches and team work their tails off and care about the sport and their guys.  So, while I almost never pull for them in a match, respect to Iowa and their coaches even if occasionally there are some missteps.  Its part of the sport.  

NCAA wrestling is better for Iowa and their occasionally dark but always strong energy.

They actually didn't have a bad tournament.  They almost got second place.

[mspart]

Trying to be Gable is the issue.   Zalesky was not the man.   He was a good asst coach, but he totally failed at OSU and left there and is at Uni of Jamestown, a real  wrestling power.   At OSU, he just stopped caring about the program.   Period. 

Tom Brands is a good coach.   He has kept Iowa at the top levels, just not at the top.   But he continues to want to be Gable and he is not.   There are very few that are Gable, and Cael is a good argument.   Gable was able to take good wrestlers and make them great, he was able to take great wrestlers and make them incredible.  He had the tough guy image but part of its effectiveness was he seemed to have an innate ability to get in his wrestler's heads and know what they needed to get the absolute best out of them.  Cael either does that or recruits people that don't need that.   I think it is the former.  

That Gable ability to get in heads is something that cannot be taught in my opinion.  That's what makes him great.  

mspart

[NormMacDonald]

They should try and get Cael

[Idaho]

13 minutes ago, mspart said:

Trying to be Gable is the issue.   Zalesky was not the man.   He was a good asst coach, but he totally failed at OSU and left there and is at Uni of Jamestown, a real  wrestling power.   At OSU, he just stopped caring about the program.   Period.

He actually started out fairly strong at OSU...but did not end well. He's at Cal Poly Humboldt with Lenny

Edited yesterday at 05:18 PM by Idaho

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, mspart said:

Trying to be Gable is the issue.   Zalesky was not the man.   He was a good asst coach, but he totally failed at OSU and left there and is at Uni of Jamestown, a real  wrestling power.   At OSU, he just stopped caring about the program.   Period. 

Tom Brands is a good coach.   He has kept Iowa at the top levels, just not at the top.   But he continues to want to be Gable and he is not.   There are very few that are Gable, and Cael is a good argument.   Gable was able to take good wrestlers and make them great, he was able to take great wrestlers and make them incredible.  He had the tough guy image but part of its effectiveness was he seemed to have an innate ability to get in his wrestler's heads and know what they needed to get the absolute best out of them.  Cael either does that or recruits people that don't need that.   I think it is the former.  

That Gable ability to get in heads is something that cannot be taught in my opinion.  That's what makes him great.  

mspart

This is why they need to make The Lee head coach ASAP.  He is the only one who can save them.

[NormMacDonald]

Cael is just following in Dan Gables footsteps and building a dynasty at one school, which is boring.  If he really wants to be the best he should switch schools every 5 years and try to win a natty at multiple Big 10 schools. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

12 minutes ago, NormMacDonald said:

Cael is just following in Dan Gables footsteps and building a dynasty at one school, which is boring.  If he really wants to be the best he should switch schools every 5 years and try to win a natty at multiple Big 10 schools. 

Like Bum Phillips said, he can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n.

[Iwrite]

mspart   -- "That Gable ability to get in heads is something that cannot be taught in my opinion.  That's what makes him great". You are 100 percent correct. I've known Dan for nealry 50 years, both in my role as a newspaper reporter and as a friend, and he is totally unique in that regard. 

 

[KCMO2]

1 hour ago, Elevator said:

Iowa had a bad B1G tourney, but a good year so far. 

Not loving the mean-spirited posts attacking Iowa on here and on other wrestling social media.   

Hmmm, sorry your feelings are hurt, but the Brands act like jerks and poach/buy half their lineup from other schools.  I wonder why some (many) people have a negative view of them and their program.

Edited 23 hours ago by KCMO2

[GimJustafan]

TNT were both fantastic wrestlers, they have been great coaches for Iowa but not elite

much of this stems from the inability or unwillingness to change with the times 

it's time for the passing of the torch/ seems lee would be next in line

but is ready for everything that comes along with being a top-level college coach 

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

2 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

The biggest problem Iowa has is the coaches inability to move on from Dan Gable.

Jim Zalesky could not do it. Go ahead and listen to him in his pre-match talks. Try & fail.

Tom Brands can't do it. Try & fail. He is good but his inability to change his approach, to fine tune it and make it his is failing the program.

Both were great wrestlers and both good, not great coaches. Both for some reason trying to be Gable, without his tools.

Until Tom & crew move on, taking the best and incorporating a new(for them) approach & be willing to further tweak what is working - Iowa will be a top team, but not at the top. Being "the best of the rest" is where they are at and that is in danger of being lost as they flounder trying to make "same shiz, different year" work.

When Brands took over the HC job, he brought Gable on staff as an assistant. Many will say that's a big reason why Iowa was able to get back on its feet so quickly after Zalesky. I think Brands is about as close to Gable as you can get. Unfortunately, I think doing things the Gable way will only get you so far today. The game has changed.

[Rassling2]

4 hours ago, Elevator said:

Iowa had a bad B1G tourney, but a good year so far. 

Not loving the mean-spirited posts attacking Iowa on here and on other wrestling social media.   They show year after year that they are a strong and thriving program, even if you don't love their flavor of wrestling culture.  Their guys always bring it and their coaches and team work their tails off and care about the sport and their guys.  So, while I almost never pull for them in a match, respect to Iowa and their coaches even if occasionally there are some missteps.  Its part of the sport.  

NCAA wrestling is better for Iowa and their occasionally dark but always strong energy.

Good post

[JeanGuy]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

When Brands took over the HC job, he brought Gable on staff as an assistant. Many will say that's a big reason why Iowa was able to get back on its feet so quickly after Zalesky. I think Brands is about as close to Gable as you can get. Unfortunately, I think doing things the Gable way will only get you so far today. The game has changed.

What do we assume is the Gable way? Most great coaches have the ability to figure out what the athlete needs to excel. Some guys need the hard @$$ coach while others need the buddy coach. Great coaches can be both. Figuring out what makes guys tick is the trick. The other thing is to know yourself and recruit guys that let you be yourself most of the time. Cael probably won't chase a guy that needs a Manning in his corner. I don't think that Cael could have gotten out of DeSanto what Brands did.

There is nothing wrong at Iowa. I can assure everyone here that in two weeks there will only be 10 guys win national championships, and they will come from various schools. Same with the All-Americans. If Iowa has zero champs and 6 AA's (which I think is their floor) is it a successful tournament? I think so.

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

Just now, JeanGuy said:

What do we assume is the Gable way? Most great coaches have the ability to figure out what the athlete needs to excel. Some guys need the hard @$$ coach while others need the buddy coach. Great coaches can be both. Figuring out what makes guys tick is the trick. The other thing is to know yourself and recruit guys that let you be yourself most of the time. Cael probably won't chase a guy that needs a Manning in his corner. I don't think that Cael could have gotten out of DeSanto what Brands did.

There is nothing wrong at Iowa. I can assure everyone here that in two weeks there will only be 10 guys win national championships, and they will come from various schools. Same with the All-Americans. If Iowa has zero champs and 6 AA's (which I think is their floor) is it a successful tournament? I think so.

I doubt the Iowa fundraising team will agree.

[KennyEBHS]

5 hours ago, Elevator said:

Iowa had a bad B1G tourney, but a good year so far. 

Not loving the mean-spirited posts attacking Iowa on here and on other wrestling social media.   They show year after year that they are a strong and thriving program, even if you don't love their flavor of wrestling culture.  Their guys always bring it and their coaches and team work their tails off and care about the sport and their guys.  So, while I almost never pull for them in a match, respect to Iowa and their coaches even if occasionally there are some missteps.  Its part of the sport.  

NCAA wrestling is better for Iowa and their occasionally dark but always strong energy.

Amen

[BAC]

6 hours ago, Elevator said:

Iowa had a bad B1G tourney, but a good year so far. 

Not loving the mean-spirited posts attacking Iowa on here and on other wrestling social media.   They show year after year that they are a strong and thriving program, even if you don't love their flavor of wrestling culture.  Their guys always bring it and their coaches and team work their tails off and care about the sport and their guys.  So, while I almost never pull for them in a match, respect to Iowa and their coaches even if occasionally there are some missteps.  Its part of the sport.  

NCAA wrestling is better for Iowa and their occasionally dark but always strong energy.

I dunno.  I do agree with much of this.  But I don't share your view that Iowa is doing so wonderfully, and I don't think we need to put on the kid gloves with regard to Iowa.  We can respect them without treating them as beyond criticism. 

In fact, if you believe as I do that a strong and competitive Iowa is good for the program, then we do them a disservice by not pointing out where they are falling short.

For example, I don't think it's mean spirited to point out that Iowa is doing a below-average job developing talent. Their assistant coaches aren't talented enough to make their good wrestlers great. They also lack breadth of knowledge, as everyone on staff is either (a) a Brands, or (b) a Brands product who learned most of what he knows from a Brands.  They've badly neglected the HWC, which is nearly non-existent, so now they are light years behind PSU in terms of the quality of practice partners. And worst of all, Iowa has badly harmed its culture, cohesion and wrestler loyalty by their extreme reliance on the portal, which they use to not just fill gaps, but also to run loyal longtime teammates out of town in favor of one-year paid wonders who have no real affinity for Iowa. Their recruiting is OK but still substandard, probably because recruits aren't seeing any sort of "Iowa style," just a collection of NIL-lured one-offs while the homegrown guys look over their shoulder, wondering if they're next.

That doesn't mean they're all wrong. Keeping Lee around was a good move, and Bassett is a great get -- after huge effort. They're ahead of the curve on women's wrestling too, which over time will pay dividends on the men's side. 

But their problems run too deep to ignore. They're good, but make no mistake:  they are neither strong nor thriving, just propped up by money. Take away their Nichols-bought mercenaries, and they're mid-tier, behind Illinois.  

So what to do?

--The Brands brothers are fine but duplicative.  Either cut one loose or put Terry in charge of the HWC full-time.

--Clean house among the assistant coaches. 

--Go on a Portal diet:  tell Nichols and your other donors you want to use the $ spent on future Parcos, Buchanans and Teemers to fund your infrastructure, namely coaches and HWC.

--As for coaching, use those dollars to hire some of the best assistants in the country.  Let them coach, don't get in their way, and hold them accountable. Cut it out with hiring only Iowa grads:  diversify.

--Dump time and money and staff into the HWC. Fill it out with a couple top coaches, and make it a go-to destination.  The guys on your RTC roster are de facto coaches and your best practice partners. Coaches like DT get this, which is why OSU is passing Iowa at warp speed.

--For heaven's sake, stop running your own recruits out of town.  Show them some loyalty, and make it clear you expect loyalty back from them.  

--Rebuild your identity.  Do things that make Iowa distinctive, whether in moves or style or the type of recruits you go after.  Bassett can help show the way.  When wrestlers feel a part of something, NIL offers are less apt to pull them away.

--Getting young guys from the portal is fine, but with upperclassmen, the portal should be used only as a last resort to fill actual holes in the lineup, not to upgrade from an actual Iowa recruit.  If your recruit hasn't performed up to snuff, the staff should take responsibility for failing to coach him up sufficiently. Starters should worry about losing their spot to a backup, not to some grad student from ASU or Oklahoma.

Look, I don't like Iowa.  At all. But I do respect them and want them to be strong, as that is better for the health of college wrestling, and it'd be nice if they could help funnel guys onto the US world team. 

Edited 18 hours ago by BAC

[One8alpha]

38 minutes ago, BAC said:

I dunno.  I do agree with much of this.  But I don't share your view that Iowa is doing so wonderfully, and I don't think we need to put on the kid gloves with regard to Iowa.  We can respect them without treating them as beyond criticism. 

In fact, if you believe as I do that a strong and competitive Iowa is good for the program, then we do them a disservice by not pointing out where they are falling short.

For example, I don't think it's mean spirited to point out that Iowa is doing a below-average job developing talent. Their assistant coaches aren't talented enough to make their good wrestlers great. They also lack breadth of knowledge, as everyone on staff is either (a) a Brands, or (b) a Brands product who learned most of what he knows from a Brands.  They've badly neglected the HWC, which is nearly non-existent, so now they are light years behind PSU in terms of the quality of practice partners. And worst of all, Iowa has badly harmed its culture, cohesion and wrestler loyalty by their extreme reliance on the portal, which they use to not just fill gaps, but also to run loyal longtime teammates out of town in favor of one-year paid wonders who have no real affinity for Iowa. Their recruiting is OK but still substandard, probably because recruits aren't seeing any sort of "Iowa style," just a collection of NIL-lured one-offs while the homegrown guys look over their shoulder, wondering if they're next.

That doesn't mean they're all wrong. Keeping Lee around was a good move, and Bassett is a great get -- after huge effort. They're ahead of the curve on women's wrestling too, which over time will pay dividends on the men's side. 

But their problems run too deep to ignore. They're good, but make no mistake:  they are neither strong nor thriving, just propped up by money. Take away their Nichols-bought mercenaries, and they're mid-tier, behind Illinois.  

So what to do?

--The Brands brothers are fine but duplicative.  Either cut one loose or put Terry in charge of the HWC full-time.

--Clean house among the assistant coaches. 

--Go on a Portal diet:  tell Nichols and your other donors you want to use the $ spent on future Parcos, Buchanans and Teemers to fund your infrastructure, namely coaches and HWC.

--As for coaching, use those dollars to hire some of the best assistants in the country.  Let them coach, don't get in their way, and hold them accountable. Cut it out with hiring only Iowa grads:  diversify.

--Dump time and money and staff into the HWC. Fill it out with a couple top coaches, and make it a go-to destination.  The guys on your RTC roster are de facto coaches and your best practice partners. Coaches like DT get this, which is why OSU is passing Iowa at warp speed.

--For heaven's sake, stop running your own recruits out of town.  Show them some loyalty, and make it clear you expect loyalty back from them.  

--Rebuild your identity.  Do things that make Iowa distinctive, whether in moves or style or the type of recruits you go after.  Bassett can help show the way.  When wrestlers feel a part of something, NIL offers are less apt to pull them away.

--Getting young guys from the portal is fine, but with upperclassmen, the portal should be used only as a last resort to fill actual holes in the lineup, not to upgrade from an actual Iowa recruit.  If your recruit hasn't performed up to snuff, the staff should take responsibility for failing to coach him up sufficiently. Starters should worry about losing their spot to a backup, not to some grad student from ASU or Oklahoma.

Look, I don't like Iowa.  At all. But I do respect them and want them to be strong, as that is better for the health of college wrestling, and it'd be nice if they could help funnel guys onto the US world team. 

Outstanding synopses.  They lost loyalty and the best version of their athletes when they hold them to a higher standard than themselves.  The mindset of if you dont perform, we will replace you.  They need to hold that standard to themselves.  If trends continue, they will be out of the top 5 annually.  I think they will get 5th again.  UNI and Iowa State are better options if you want to be a National champion.  The hawkeyes are wrestling so tight and stressed and fear failing more than wrestling free and scoring points.  

[Spencerlee]

3 minutes ago, One8alpha said:

Outstanding synopses.  They lost loyalty and the best version of their athletes when they hold them to a higher standard than themselves.  The mindset of if you dont perform, we will replace you.  They need to hold that standard to themselves.  If trends continue, they will be out of the top 5 annually.  I think they will get 5th again.  UNI and Iowa State are better options if you want to be a National champion.  The hawkeyes are wrestling so tight and stressed and fear failing more than wrestling free and scoring points.  

No one is picking UNI or Iowa State over Iowa if Iowa wants them. 

[One8alpha]

8 minutes ago, Spencerlee said:

No one is picking UNI or Iowa State over Iowa if Iowa wants them. 

Give it a bit more time.  The culture in Iowa is on a downward spiral. A leadership change is the only thing that will shift it back up

[Hammerlock3]

The staff isn't getting it done on the coaching side, and they're mediocre on the recruiting side. Administratively, as ironic as it is, Iowa is great.

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

How many times do top high school recruits and their families need to watch Iowa recruit a one year wonder from the portal over their existing roster to realize that they are an unreliable partner and that they'd be better off at another institution?

 

[BAC]

1 hour ago, Spencerlee said:

No one is picking UNI or Iowa State over Iowa if Iowa wants them. 

If I'm a wrestling dad, I'd take UNI ten times over before I'd take Iowa.

How many top 20 recruiting classes has UNI had in the last 5 years?  One, and they were something like 18th or 19th.  Yet how's UNI ranked?  Fourth, and very nearly knocked off OSU at Big 12s.  And they did that with how many Portal transfers?  None, to my recollection.  NIL funds?  Probably close to zero.  Loyal recruits forced to transfer because the coach brought in some grad student at his weight?  Zero.

Compare that to Iowa, which has top 5 recruiting classes year in and year out, plus who knows how many hundreds of thousands of Booster Bucks dropped on Portal transfers.  The two teams are very nearly equal.  Schwab and his staff coached up this ragtag group of misfits to a top 5 team, with virtually every starter ranked in the top 20, that routed Nebraska 24-9 -- the same Nebraska that torched Iowa at Big 10s.  Take away Iowa's Portal mercenaries, and UNI probably holds Iowa to single digits in a dual -- not that we'll ever know, since Brands refuses to schedule them.  Plus, you send your kid to Iowa, you know they'll recruit over him in a heartbeat, paying big money for someone who couldn't care less about Iowa to take his spot, shoving your kid off to one of the Dakotas.

True, UNI lacks the Iowa fan base and the prestige and patina of the Iowa name, so they can't compete in recruiting.  But qualitatively, the truth is that UNI is blowing the doors off of Iowa right now in talent development, and is infinitely more loyal. For recruits who do their homework, the choice is obvious.

[Tyler]

Considering the amount of money and resources Iowa has for their wrestling program (along with their history), the way they constantly underperform in March is comical. Outside of the 2021 season I guess. They remind me of the Dallas Cowboys lol