NCAA House Settlement

[BigRedFan]

From an email from the Cornell AD:

other big news unfolded earlier this week when the Ivy League announced that all eight schools will be opting out of the impending NCAA House Settlement. The decision to "not opt in" means the Ivy League schools:

• Will not change long standing rules, including those that prohibit any form of compensation for participation in any intercollegiate athletics program ("Pay for play").
• Will continue to not provide student-athletes with revenue sharing allocations, athletics scholarships, or direct NIL payments; and
• Will not be subject to the roster limits established by the settlement for NCAA championship sports.

[MPhillips]

And will not be eligible for NCAA championships...

[BruceyB]

So.. the Ivies are just going to be club teams?

[BigRedFan]

16 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

And will not be eligible for NCAA championships...

The Ivy League Executive Director would disagree:

Quote

The announcement details how the Ivy League’s membership in Division I and access to NCAA championships are not affected by this decision and states that Ivy League athletic rosters will still not be subject to roster limits imposed by the NCAA.

 

[MPhillips]

1 minute ago, BigRedFan said:

The Ivy League Executive Director would disagree:

That's great!

[CHROMEBIRD]

Good on the Ivies for taking a principled stance. I don't think it'll affect wrestling much if at all. Recruitment, retention, and administration will be as tough as it has ever been for coaches in the Ivy environment. Maybe we'll see a very watered-down version of the "feeder school" trap that the revenue sports are worried about, with talented kids getting poached.

I guess the bigger worry would be if opting-out could affect enough football and basketball players that it cascades down into other problems (lost enrollment, inability to find good coaches, and such) to the point that the Ivy League reclassifies to D3. Seems like there's been a low hum in the background for a while now about finding a better fit down in D3. The policies will definitely be more in-line with the Ivies' philosophy of academics and athletic governance.

Edited Saturday at 04:11 AM by CHROMEBIRD

[AgaveMaria]

Is it a "Principled Stance" or do they realize they can't compete with the dollars?

[Husker_Du]

3 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Is it a "Principled Stance" or do they realize they can't compete with the dollars?

i would say it's a principled stance. 

if the ivies wanted to compete with the big FB/BB schools they would have done what the rest of DI did years ago and essentially wave any academic requirements for athletes in those sports. 

so, yeah, they are staying in line with their principles. 

[Husker_Du]

6 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I guess the bigger worry would be if opting-out could affect enough football and basketball players that it cascades down into other problems (lost enrollment, inability to find good coaches, and such) to the point that the Ivy League reclassifies to D3. Seems like there's been a low hum in the background for a while now about finding a better fit down in D3. The policies will definitely be more in-line with the Ivies' philosophy of academics and athletic governance.

bro, what?

the ivy league rejects 93% of applicants. if you don't want to come to Harvard to play FB or BB because you're not getting paid, guess what, someone will. 

this might be a good theory if you applied it to other schools, but not schools who turn down 9 of 10.

[666]

4 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

bro, what?

the ivy league rejects 93% of applicants. if you don't want to come to Harvard to play FB or BB because you're not getting paid, guess what, someone will. 

 

And the guy who WILL go to Harvard will in all likelihood be a lot worse than anybody who turned them down because they aren't getting paid. 

I can't see the Ivies being a competitive D1 conference with the "rules" listed in this thread. They will severely decline over the next few years. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

7 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

bro, what?

the ivy league rejects 93% of applicants. if you don't want to come to Harvard to play FB or BB because you're not getting paid, guess what, someone will. 

this might be a good theory if you applied it to other schools, but not schools who turn down 9 of 10.

That's what I'm saying - I love that the Ivies are putting what they have to offer against NIL cash. But the transfer portal and NIL deals chipping away at their model, like we see in basketball (Okpara, Mack, Wolf, etc.). And transfers have a disproportionate effect on Ivy league schools because so few are admitted and fewer students are allowed to transfer-in. So lost headcount in a class is pretty much gone. It's a small number now, but when kids without need-based financial assistance are presented with a choice between paying their own way through an Ivy League school vs. scholarship money and NIL deals elsewhere, even smart kids will be tempted to forego a payday. The individual NIL sponsorships Ivy League schools allow are minuscule compared to what the collectives have to offer.

[Nightcrawler]

2 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

That's what I'm saying - I love that the Ivies are putting what they have to offer against NIL cash. But the transfer portal and NIL deals chipping away at their model, like we see in basketball (Okpara, Mack, Wolf, etc.). And transfers have a disproportionate effect on Ivy league schools because so few are admitted and fewer students are allowed to transfer-in. So lost headcount in a class is pretty much gone. It's a small number now, but when kids without need-based financial assistance are presented with a choice between paying their own way through an Ivy League school vs. scholarship money and NIL deals elsewhere, even smart kids will be tempted to forego a payday. The individual NIL sponsorships Ivy League schools allow are minuscule compared to what the collectives have to offer.

I partly agree. Smart kids prioritize education and life beyond wrestling—except for rare world-class wrestlers who are also top students—because they know wrestling won’t provide lifetime money. An NIL deal might make your 20s comfortable, but an Ivy League diploma and connections set you up way better long-term.

The part on financial assistance caught my eye though, just because fewer Ivy grads leave with student debt, and those who do owe way less than the national average. Most Ivies are using their endowments better to pull in more students. At Penn, families earning up to $200K get free tuition; at Columbia, it’s $150K, and Brown is close too. Schools like Harvard cover gaps with plenty of scholarships. (Ironically, the best wrestling school in the Ivy League is the stingiest with their money)

I’m not going to say that the no NIL will have no effect on the Ivy schools, but I will say I don’t think it will have nearly as much of an effect as people think. They’ve always attracted a specific type of student athlete, not dissimilar to the way service academies do.

[666]

I say make hay while the sun is shining. Those boys could have a career ending injury well before finishing an IVY degree, then where would they be without an education OR money? 

Take the money and concentrate on your education at whatever school you go to. Much respect to the Ivy league for it's principled stance and I understand the value of an education, but from what I understand the NIL money some of the wrestlers get is truly lifechanging. Imagine 4 years of getting good NIL money, you could graduate and go to any school in the Ivy league. 

[BruceyB]

3 minutes ago, 666 said:

Those boys could have a career ending injury well before finishing an IVY degree, then where would they be without an education OR money?

How does an injury prevent the athlete from finishing their education?

[666]

6 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

How does an injury prevent the athlete from finishing their education?

If he can't afford to pay. College isn't free. 

[BruceyB]

24 minutes ago, 666 said:

If he can't afford to pay. College isn't free. 

• NCAA protections

  NCAA rules prohibit schools from reducing, canceling, or failing to renew an athlete's scholarship due to injury, illness, or athletic performance. 

[666]

7 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

• NCAA protections

  NCAA rules prohibit schools from reducing, canceling, or failing to renew an athlete's scholarship due to injury, illness, or athletic performance. 

I didn't know that! My bad. Still, I say take the money when you can take it. 

[Husker_Du]

please don't procreate. 

[Husker_Du]

20 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

But the transfer portal and NIL deals chipping away at their model, like we see in basketball (Okpara, Mack, Wolf, etc.).

And transfers have a disproportionate effect on Ivy league schools because so few are admitted and fewer students are allowed to transfer-in.

no idea what you're talking about. what Ivy league wrestlers have left for NIL deals? Wrestling is not basketball. 

20 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

The individual NIL sponsorships Ivy League schools allow are minuscule compared to what the collectives have to offer.

what wrestling programs are offering significant NIL? there's like 8 programs that can/do. 

[Fletcher]

There are some people who will pass up a few thousand dollars in NIL right now to access the money that follows receipt of an ivy league degree. They're getting paid - just later and more indirectly.

[lu1979]

I have a question for someone in the know (Huskr Du?) - It says the Ivy Leagues will not provide the athletes with  "direct NIL payments" - does this leave the athletes free to pursue NIL deals on their own and does it leave boosters free to offer NIL money without involving the schools?

[ionel]

33 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I have a question for someone in the know (Huskr Du?) - It says the Ivy Leagues will not provide the athletes with  "direct NIL payments" - does this leave the athletes free to pursue NIL deals on their own and does it leave boosters free to offer NIL money without involving the schools?

Are you talking about actual NIL money or just the standard booster pay to play money.  I don't see how a university could now limit any student's (athlete or academic) ability to monetize their image.  However have any seen a major commercial or other image & likeness use case for folks like Buchanan, Teemer, Parco etc? 

[CHROMEBIRD]

4 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

no idea what you're talking about. what Ivy league wrestlers have left for NIL deals? Wrestling is not basketball. 

what wrestling programs are offering significant NIL? there's like 8 programs that can/do. 

You literally said: " if you don't want to come to Harvard to play FB or BB because you're not getting paid, guess what, someone will." - and I said yeah, kids are leaving the Ivy League in basketball. No idea about football. I also said that while opting-out won't have much effect on wrestling, it could have enough of an effect on FB/BB that the schools actually take a closer look at D3.

Btw, even smart athletes in non-revenue sports can be swayed when the decision is paying their own way through an Ivy League school with no real NIL prospects vs. Stanford/Duke/Northwestern/Michigan/UVA/UCLA (etc) + athletic scholarship and even small NIL money.