#SaveCSUWrestling...again

[1032004]

6 hours ago, 89Cradle said:

Let me update the correct data; Cleveland State is sending two wrestlers to the 2024 NCAA Championships, 197: Ben Smith - 285: Daniel Bucknavich.

The Vikings wrapped up the 2022 MAC Championships on Saturday, with Marcus Robinson (149), Riley Smucker (165), and Ben Smith (197) qualifying for the NCAA Championships.

The Cleveland State wrestling team wrapped up action at the 2021 Mid-American Conference Championships Saturday, with Marcus Robinson (149), DeAndre Nassar (184) and Ben Smith (197) all qualifying for the NCAA Tournament.

 

Thank you. My apologies, I looked up the “Nationals History” on wrestlestat but forgot to scroll to the right…

[bnwtwg]

9 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

The most eye-opening part of this take is that APR still exists. I'm surprised the NCAA hasn't been sued yet, since that seems to be the way things go these days

That's because the small programs who are most affected previously were hamstrung by the transfer-er and now are hamstrung by red tape.

I remember Eastern Illinois had an academic AA and NQ the year they cut the program. The administration cited low APR because they only had 2.1 total scholarships and a couple kids transferred to B1G schools (with future success).

Anyways, phuck APR. And CSU. But this was.. is... the inevitability. Death to the NCAA means death to all Olympic sports.

[1032004]

57 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

That's because the small programs who are most affected previously were hamstrung by the transfer-er and now are hamstrung by red tape.

I remember Eastern Illinois had an academic AA and NQ the year they cut the program. The administration cited low APR because they only had 2.1 total scholarships and a couple kids transferred to B1G schools (with future success).

Anyways, phuck APR. And CSU. But this was.. is... the inevitability. Death to the NCAA means death to all Olympic sports.

Willie had a good rant on this with Basch.

It doesn’t seem like CSU dropping has anything to do with NIL and “the death of Olympic sports.”  CSU doesn’t even have a football team.  The whole school is apparently in massive debt.

[wrestle87]

On 1/26/2025 at 9:04 PM, Idaho said:

What very successful programs have nothing but a room, mat, a coach who can drive a car and push a mop and no more? The average professor salary is in the 140k range at large universities (Iowa for example)... You can't get a head wrestling coach at a very successful program for 70k..... even assistants make more than that.  Wrestling is  one of the least costly programs due to the number of traveling participants, but there are many costs that go into a program. 

Comparing Iowa to Cleveland state is as apples and oranges as it gets.  

I'm sure pay has gone up in years since because of inflation, but here is what 2018 salary was for the head coach in question...$52K.

https://opengovpay.com/oh/joshua-moore-j/31588871

For that same year, there are 10 professors and administrators making more than $250K.  

https://opengovpay.com/employer/oh/university-of-cleveland-state

And we're talking about a campus that, rounding down, has 9,500 undergrads and 4,600 grad students.

So, again, objective carrying costs of cleveland state wrestling...very low.

RELATIVE carrying costs of cleveland state wrestling, ALSO very low. 

Edited January 28 by wrestle87

[Idaho]

15 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Comparing Iowa to Cleveland state is as apples and oranges as it gets.  

I'm sure pay has gone up in years since because of inflation, but here is what 2018 salary was for the head coach in question...$52K.

https://opengovpay.com/oh/joshua-moore-j/31588871

For that same year, there are 10 professors and administrators making more than $250K.  

https://opengovpay.com/employer/oh/university-of-cleveland-state

And we're talking about a campus that, rounding down, has 9,500 undergrads and 4,600 grad students.

So, again, objective carrying costs of cleveland state wrestling...very low.

RELATIVE carrying costs of cleveland state wrestling, ALSO very low. 

You are moving the goal posts....your initial post states:  "My approach to a wrestling program is that they are the least costly programs you can have.  All you need is a room, a mat, and a coach who can drive a car and push a mop.  Many very successful programs have that and no more.  That is half a professor's salary." 

I ask again, in your own words and your own "approach to a wrestling program",  what "very successful programs have a room, mat, a coach who can drive a car and push a mop and no more" and pay their head coach "half a professors salary."  If you want to talk top end salaries of professors that are in admin, that's a different story. The average salary of professors at large schools are in that 125-150 range. 

BTW - Your reference to Moore's salary is when he was an assistant not head coach from, as you said, 8 years ago.  Ben Stehura was the head coach. 

[1032004]

Must be one of Basch’s “guys,” used his graphic

 

 

 

[Greenwave]

How do we get the salaries of the AD and her staff including expense allowance, car allowance.   this along with the professors and admins salaries paint the true picture at CSU.
 

 

[wrestle87]

5 hours ago, Idaho said:

You are moving the goal posts....your initial post states:  "My approach to a wrestling program is that they are the least costly programs you can have.  All you need is a room, a mat, and a coach who can drive a car and push a mop.  Many very successful programs have that and no more.  That is half a professor's salary." 

I ask again, in your own words and your own "approach to a wrestling program",  what "very successful programs have a room, mat, a coach who can drive a car and push a mop and no more" and pay their head coach "half a professors salary."  If you want to talk top end salaries of professors that are in admin, that's a different story. The average salary of professors at large schools are in that 125-150 range. 

BTW - Your reference to Moore's salary is when he was an assistant not head coach from, as you said, 8 years ago.  Ben Stehura was the head coach. 

You are correct, that salary reference was an error on my part. 

Do you have solutions or are you just interested in debating points that don’t move the needle? 

[1032004]

 

 

[Show_Me]

Any updates ?

This will be the 4th MAC Program “recently” axed following E. Michigan, Old Dominion, & Lindenwood.  

It “Feels” like others could soon follow.  Hope to be wrong, but concerned for many Programs in the MAC, SoCon, P12, & EIWA.

[SetonHallPirate]

18 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

Any updates ?

This will be the 4th MAC Program “recently” axed following E. Michigan, Old Dominion, & Lindenwood.  

It “Feels” like others could soon follow.  Hope to be wrong, but concerned for many Programs in the MAC, SoCon, P12, & EIWA.

Lindenwood was never part of the MAC.

[Show_Me]

3 minutes ago, SetonHallPirate said:

Lindenwood was never part of the MAC.

Ok.  I remember it being “common knowledge” that they would complete in the MAC.  Whatever, your right.

Now that we have that established … updates ?

Edited Sunday at 03:49 AM by Show_Me

[SetonHallPirate]

Sorry, thought I was in a different thread...

Edited Sunday at 04:05 AM by SetonHallPirate

[1032004]

13 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

Ok.  I remember it being “common knowledge” that they would complete in the MAC.  Whatever, your right.

Now that we have that established … updates ?

Pretty sure there isn’t much effort being made because there doesn’t seem like much can be done, and that the decision  wasn’t really related to wrestling 

[Show_Me]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Pretty sure there isn’t much effort being made because there doesn’t seem like much can be done, and that the decision  wasn’t really related to wrestling 

Thanks.  This is the kind of “update” I was seeking.

[SetonHallPirate]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Pretty sure there isn’t much effort being made because there doesn’t seem like much can be done, and that the decision  wasn’t really related to wrestling 

Yeah, the effort that needs to be made is getting the ghost of Johnny Cochran involved, because if nothing else, the Cleveland State University students should be suing the pants off the university, as Jason Bryant mentioned above.

[1032004]

18 minutes ago, SetonHallPirate said:

Yeah, the effort that needs to be made is getting the ghost of Johnny Cochran involved, because if nothing else, the Cleveland State University students should be suing the pants off the university, as Jason Bryant mentioned above.

They need a lawyer?  @VakAttack? Or maybe that guy from BWI that posted the YouTube videos of the Willie trials?