I tried to tell you....but credit to Trump

[red viking]

1 minute ago, wrestlingguy said:

In this situation the bully would be Hamas. The bully got punched back and now they are crying about it like they didn't bring it on themselves.

Yah; killing tends of thousands of innocent civilians (mostly kids) is a good reaction to a few dozen people being killed in October. Take off the red-tinted goggles. 

Not to mention continuing to take more land away from other innocent Palestinians. 

[Husker_Du]

UB - who, officially, represents Palestine. what organization?

and what is their stated mission? 

this isn't difficult. 

[red viking]

8 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

UB - who, officially, represents Palestine. what organization?

and what is their stated mission? 

this isn't difficult. 

Irrelevant. The murder, rape and genocide of 95% innocent civilians is the problem. And deliberate starvation of the rest of the population. 

Edited Wednesday at 08:40 PM by red viking

[wrestlingguy]

6 minutes ago, red viking said:

Irrelevant. The murder, rape and genocide of 95% innocent civilians is the problem. 

Hamas hides among civilians. So they should just be allowed to continue terrorizing people?

Hamas raped men and women and some of them were already dead. Does that sound like a "real man" to you?

[red viking]

15 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

Hamas hides among civilians. So they should just be allowed to continue terrorizing people?

Hamas raped men and women and some of them were already dead. Does that sound like a "real man" to you?

Israel has the most modern weapons in the world, because we literally give them whatever they need at taxpayer expense. Hamas is literally fighting with sticks and stones. There's no way in hell that they can fight Israel using conventional tactics. Going right out in the open is suicide. 

If Israel wants to be the bully and invade Gaza and continue to forcibly take more land, its their responsibility to at least minimize the deaths of innocent civilians. Minimal effort though, if any. 

[mspart]

Then Hamas could stop fighting if it is suicide to do so.   And it is as is being demonstrated.   But you don't suggest that they should stop fighting.   They killed more than some dozens.   They brutally killed 1200 (100 dozen for you) on that wonderful October day when they were not in danger nor was Israel threatening them.  

Who said war has to be proportional?   Whoever said that never won a war.   Hamas said that this was only the beginning and said they would continue this course of action.   So Israel is supposed to kill 1200, call it a day, and wait for more of their people to be killed?   You live in an alternate universe.  

I have to say if Hamas does this again, they would be bringing on themselves total destruction.  For themselves and those Gazans that they say are the UN's problem.   You might have a complaint then.  

mspart

Edited Wednesday at 09:35 PM by mspart

[Paul158]

53 minutes ago, mspart said:

Then Hamas could stop fighting if it is suicide to do so.   And it is as is being demonstrated.   But you don't suggest that they should stop fighting.   They killed more than some dozens.   They brutally killed 1200 (100 dozen for you) on that wonderful October day when they were not in danger nor was Israel threatening them.  

Who said war has to be proportional?   Whoever said that never won a war.   Hamas said that this was only the beginning and said they would continue this course of action.   So Israel is supposed to kill 1200, call it a day, and wait for more of their people to be killed?   You live in an alternate universe.  

I have to say if Hamas does this again, they would be bringing on themselves total destruction.  For themselves and those Gazans that they say are the UN's problem.   You might have a complaint then.  

mspart

Can we at least castrate the Hamas soldiers (prisoners) before they go home. Maybe be nice and just give them a vasectomy. That way they cannot produce more terrorists. Just an idea.

[Husker_Du]

6 hours ago, red viking said:

Irrelevant. The murder, rape and genocide of 95% innocent civilians is the problem. And deliberate starvation of the rest of the population. 

you have both the historical foundation and energy of a second year undergrad. 

[red viking]

4 hours ago, Paul158 said:

Can we at least castrate the Hamas soldiers (prisoners) before they go home. Maybe be nice and just give them a vasectomy. That way they cannot produce more terrorists. Just an idea.

Basically genocide. No wonder u support the Israeli atrocities over there. 

[Paul158]

4 hours ago, red viking said:

Basically genocide. No wonder u support the Israeli atrocities over there. 

I'm just not a fan of terrorists. Life is to short to just go around killing people. that is a special kind of mental illness.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

15 hours ago, red viking said:

Israel has the most modern weapons in the world, because we literally give them whatever they need at taxpayer expense. Hamas is literally fighting with sticks and stones. There's no way in hell that they can fight Israel using conventional tactics. Going right out in the open is suicide. 

If Israel wants to be the bully and invade Gaza and continue to forcibly take more land, its their responsibility to at least minimize the deaths of innocent civilians. Minimal effort though, if any. 

Do you know what "literally" means?

Because you are literally incorrect.

Edited Thursday at 12:49 PM by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

16 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

UB - who, officially, represents Palestine. what organization?

and what is their stated mission? 

this isn't difficult. 

Yep... and the thing is: War against Israel is good business for the leaders of Hamas.  They are out of business if the war ends.  They like the idea of collecting millions and millions and living the high life while their constituents suffer.

[headshuck]

“Sticks and stones” must be code names for drones and improvised explosives.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 hours ago, red viking said:

Basically genocide. No wonder u support the Israeli atrocities over there. 

While you're at it, please explain the Egypt-Gaza border to us.

[uncle bernard]

19 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

yes, so by all means, let them be. lmfao.

Dismantling Hamas is a necessary condition of the peace process. Look at South Africa. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. Now he's remembered as one of the world's greatest peace activists because international pressure helped force the apartheid government into a political peace process that ultimately ended the guerilla war and ended apartheid.

[uncle bernard]

19 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

UB - who, officially, represents Palestine. what organization?

and what is their stated mission? 

this isn't difficult. 

Even in your attempted gotcha, you fall on your face lol.

Hamas only controls Gaza. The PLO is internationally recognized representative of Palestine. They recognized Israel as a state back in the 90s during the Oslo Accords.

[Lipdrag]

23 hours ago, mspart said:

It would be interesting if UB could let everyone know how Hamas could be removed politically in the current situation.

mspart

Simple, the same way the Nazis and the Japanese Imperialists were defeated politically.  Via very nicely written Thank You notes written on linen paper and delivered by doves.

 

[uncle bernard]

24 minutes ago, Lipdrag said:

Simple, the same way the Nazis and the Japanese Imperialists were defeated politically.  Via very nicely written Thank You notes written on linen paper and delivered by doves.

 

What about the Taliban? ISIS? Hamas is not like the Nazis or Japanese during WWII. It is a guerilla style terror group. And the record on trying to defeat that type of enemy is marked by failure, particularly in the Middle East. They always come back because military solutions don't address root causes.

[PortaJohn]

9 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

What about the Taliban? ISIS? Hamas is not like the Nazis or Japanese during WWII. It is a guerilla style terror group. And the record on trying to defeat that type of enemy is marked by failure, particularly in the Middle East. They always come back because military solutions don't address root causes.

Neither will diplomacy as long as Iran is hell bent on being a disruptive force in the region.  It's a sh*t show and will continue to be

Edited Thursday at 06:18 PM by PortaJohn

[mspart]

5 hours ago, headshuck said:

“Sticks and stones” must be code names for drones and improvised explosives.

And rockets.

mspart

[uncle bernard]

13 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Neither will diplomacy as long as Iran is hell bent on being a disruptive force in the region.  It's a sh*t show and will continue to be

I think this is a totally reasonable response. Where I would push back is that we shouldn't separate Iran's status as a "disruptive force" from our own actions in the region going back to the immediate post-war period, especially the coup in Iran. We set the Islamic Revolution in motion.

American foreign policy proceeds from the assumption that we have the right to and should control ever region in the world. The world is our plaything. Iran's emergence as a sponsor of terrorism and hostile force in the region was a response to us.

IMO, any possibility for change in the region has to start with our acceptance that the Empire is over. Our role moving forward should not be as a military power, but as a force of economic and political development around the globe. In the Middle East, that starts by pursuing policies that empower the most moderate forces within hostile countries (the Iran nuclear deal being an example).

[PortaJohn]

26 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

American foreign policy proceeds from the assumption that we have the right to and should control ever region in the world. The world is our plaything. Iran's emergence as a sponsor of terrorism and hostile force in the region was a response to us.

It was a response to us working with the belief that British Intelligence was correct in their assessment that Iran had become controlled by the Soviet Union.  The British were the main antagonizers in the lead up to the coup and the US followed.  There is this false historical narrative especially from the left that the US is always the boogey man in the room

Edited Thursday at 07:03 PM by PortaJohn

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, PortaJohn said:

It was a response to us working with the belief that British Intelligence was correct in their assessment that Iran had become controlled by the Soviet Union.  The British were the main antagonizers in the lead up to the coup and the US followed.  There is this false historical narrative especially from the left that the US is always the boogey man in the room

1) That's not why British Intelligence performed the coup. They did it because Iran was attempting to nationalize its oil industry which was then controlled by BP. That's the bottom line.

2) Yes, the Brits led the operation, but the CIA was heavily involved and it became the model for the next 30 years of coups.

3) None of what you said addresses the historical fact that Iranian coup was the first domino in the Islamic Revolution. Whether the Brits or US is more responsible for that 1 event is irrelevant. We are continuing the imperial project in the region.

[mspart]

The ceasefire was on, then off, then on then off, and now on.   What's going on?

mspart

[Offthemat]

I can’t see that anything has changed.