Looking for concrete reasons why ID is not needed to vote but is needed to do almost everything else

[mspart]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm looking for actual reasoning why Ds don't want to require voter ID but require it for almost everything else, including getting a job with the DNC, getting in a government building, getting a license (biz or drivers) or social security. 

mspart

[Husker_Du]

there's one reason and one reason only - to obfuscate the results. 

to effin cheat. 

any other suggested reason is asinine and makes you look like a shill.

so don't even. 

[Offthemat]

3 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

there's one reason and one reason only - to obfuscate the results. 

to effin cheat. 

any other suggested reason is asinine and makes you look like a shill.

so don't even. 

Correct answer. 

[Threadkilla]

Obviously you aren't aware that Black kids don't know what computers are.

[Tripnsweep]

There are a large number of natives in my state who lack the needed documents to get an ID. Per tribal standards they're fine, but the state doesn't accept their lack of birth certificate, or other things they might have. Add to that, most of the communities are rural, spread out on a territory more than twice the size of West Virginia, that spans 3 states, and a good portion of which lacks either running water, electricity or both. That the nearest post office might be hours away. So disenfranchisement of a large number of people because their traditions don't give them the ability to easily acquire something like a state issued drivers license or ID card. 

[Lipdrag]

7 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

There are a large number of natives in my state who lack the needed documents to get an ID. Per tribal standards they're fine, but the state doesn't accept their lack of birth certificate, or other things they might have. Add to that, most of the communities are rural, spread out on a territory more than twice the size of West Virginia, that spans 3 states, and a good portion of which lacks either running water, electricity or both. That the nearest post office might be hours away. So disenfranchisement of a large number of people because their traditions don't give them the ability to easily acquire something like a state issued drivers license or ID card. 

Don’t they need ID to deal Blackjack at the casino?

Edited Saturday at 12:42 PM by Lipdrag

[red viking]

False premise. You DO need your ID to vote, or equivalent documents. When you register. In general. Every state is different though so which state are you talking about? 

Edited Saturday at 02:18 PM by red viking

[Tripnsweep]

4 hours ago, Lipdrag said:

Don’t they need ID to deal Blackjack at the casino?

What a racist thing to say. 

[Offthemat]

3 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

What a racist thing to say. 

 

15 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

There are a large number of natives in my state who lack the needed documents to get an ID. Per tribal standards they're fine, but the state doesn't accept their lack of birth certificate, or other things they might have. Add to that, most of the communities are rural, spread out on a territory more than twice the size of West Virginia, that spans 3 states, and a good portion of which lacks either running water, electricity or both. That the nearest post office might be hours away. So disenfranchisement of a large number of people because their traditions don't give them the ability to easily acquire something like a state issued drivers license or ID card. 

This is the racist statement.  Portraying injuns as too unsophisticated to obtain a simple ID.  The Indian Health Service keeps fine records.  The Tribes do, as well.  Any who don’t have an ID either lost it or doesn’t want one. 

[Caveira]

How racist white liberals really view black voters.      
 

That’s the first part of the interview.  Then they interview real black people.  The second part starts around 1:40

 

 

[PortaJohn]

16 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

 

This is the racist statement.  Portraying injuns as too unsophisticated to obtain a simple ID.  The Indian Health Service keeps fine records.  The Tribes do, as well.  Any who don’t have an ID either lost it or doesn’t want one. 

I'm all for voter id and support it but Trip does have a legitimate point this time.  There was a dispute in North Dakota a few years ago on this very issue.  Thankfully it was resolved.  

[ionel]

6 hours ago, red viking said:

False premise. You DO need your ID to vote, or equivalent documents. When you register. In general. Every state is different though so which state are you talking about? 

Then how do you know the person who registered is the one who is voting?

[Tripnsweep]

3 hours ago, Offthemat said:

 

This is the racist statement.  Portraying injuns as too unsophisticated to obtain a simple ID.  The Indian Health Service keeps fine records.  The Tribes do, as well.  Any who don’t have an ID either lost it or doesn’t want one. 

They aren't unsophisticated. The nation is huge, mostly rural, and a lot of people live in small communities where they live in traditional ways. And the fact you're using the word "injun" says plenty. 

[Offthemat]

Naw, it’s a term of endearment.  So many in my family, I’ve got a card of my own. Shorter than saying with a dot or with a feather.  Lived around them all my life, it’s how I learned all those old Indian tricks.  They’re just as likely to take advantage, and be taken advantage of as anyone else.  If they don’t have an ID it’s because they either lost it or don’t want one. 

[headshuck]

Pretty sure they are still counting votes in California. You can vote as many times as you like.

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Pretty sure they are still counting votes in California.

They harvest votes like they harvest oranges out there. 

[Tripnsweep]

45 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Naw, it’s a term of endearment.  So many in my family, I’ve got a card of my own. Shorter than saying with a dot or with a feather.  Lived around them all my life, it’s how I learned all those old Indian tricks.  They’re just as likely to take advantage, and be taken advantage of as anyone else.  If they don’t have an ID it’s because they either lost it or don’t want one. 

I lived in a reservation border town for a few years. Even back then saying that to someone could earn you a fight pretty quickly. I don't think you are comprehending what the nation here is like. Most of it is rural, news takes a long time to reach people, and a lot of them either don't have basic modern convenience we do. Some don't care. They don't have a need for ID because they are on their land, living the same way for years. If they need something they don't need to show ID because people know them. The tribal police, etc aren't going to hassle them nor will anyone else. It's a huge area, bigger than a lot of states, that has about 300,000 people on it, and at least 2/3 live in a rural area. A lot don't even have a proper address, which is why on voter registration forms it says to draw a map of you don't know or have a numerical address. Also if you throw in a deep distrust of outsiders, specifically white people, then they're much less likely to have those things unless it's absolutely necessary. Like leaving the nation to go to school or work somewhere else. It's a much different culture that I wouldn't expect to confirm to our ideals. 

[headshuck]

A couple things come to mind. How do they vote today? By proxy? If so, how would voterID impact them?

What is the status of rural broadband in their area? Seems like a high priority or does someone want them to stay offline?

[ionel]

38 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

I lived in a reservation border town for a few years. Even back then saying that to someone could earn you a fight pretty quickly. I 

Similer to calling someone an "Okie?"

[Tripnsweep]

1 hour ago, headshuck said:

A couple things come to mind. How do they vote today? By proxy? If so, how would voterID impact them?

What is the status of rural broadband in their area? Seems like a high priority or does someone want them to stay offline?

They vote by mail mostly. They have a tribal ID number and register using that or something. Most people don't realize the reservation is a separate nation, they have their own laws and customs that we don't get much of a say in. Some of the local ones nearby the city here basically ignore our laws when it comes to certain things. When I was doing my training working for the county years ago, we had to have a guy come in and explain that if any of us working for the court had cases that involved tribal members who lived on the reservation, we couldn't enforce those orders ourselves since it would be violating their tribal sovereignty. We had to hand it off to the tribal magistrate who would supposedly review it and decide whether to do anything. In the words of one of the old timers in my office he confirmed that doing that was like "pissing into the wind". In essence if a tribal member does something wrong off the reservation and is able to get back onto their reservation where they live, they can escape consequences for some things. Around here it's usually things like DUI, shoplifting, etc because by the time the police get to it, they're gone and the local police have no power on the reservation, and the rez cops aren't exactly known for their speediness either. Also since whatever they're accused of didn't happen on the reservation, so there isn't much they can or will do besides give them a lecture about doing dumb things. So when it comes to nuances like voting, in rural places, they don't need the same things we do because they are so far removed from us. Their parents and grandparents got on without, and they do too. It's a separate nation that has their ways, and both culturally and administratively does things their way. 

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, Tripnsweep said:

I lived in a reservation border town for a few years. Even back then saying that to someone could earn you a fight pretty quickly. I don't think you are comprehending what the nation here is like. Most of it is rural, news takes a long time to reach people, and a lot of them either don't have basic modern convenience we do. Some don't care. They don't have a need for ID because they are on their land, living the same way for years. If they need something they don't need to show ID because people know them. The tribal police, etc aren't going to hassle them nor will anyone else. It's a huge area, bigger than a lot of states, that has about 300,000 people on it, and at least 2/3 live in a rural area. A lot don't even have a proper address, which is why on voter registration forms it says to draw a map of you don't know or have a numerical address. Also if you throw in a deep distrust of outsiders, specifically white people, then they're much less likely to have those things unless it's absolutely necessary. Like leaving the nation to go to school or work somewhere else. It's a much different culture that I wouldn't expect to confirm to our ideals. 

Take it to any ridiculous point you want, nobody is required to vote.  But if you want to, there are a few requirements, and it’s up to you to make the effort.  Mail-in voting should be limited to a few specific situations, like military service or physical disability.  Harvesting should not be allowed.  

[Tripnsweep]

5 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Take it to any ridiculous point you want, nobody is required to vote.  But if you want to, there are a few requirements, and it’s up to you to make the effort.  Mail-in voting should be limited to a few specific situations, like military service or physical disability.  Harvesting should not be allowed.  

You don't face the issues people do who live on the nation do. So forcing them to do things our way, when they live by a different set of laws and way of life isn't right. When you don't have a car, live in a remote area without water and or electric service, and get mail once a month, then you might be able to have a say in it. 

[Husker_Du]

gimme a effing break. they can figure out the reservation stuff.

or they can not vote. this *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* is ridiculous. 

[Tripnsweep]

53 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

gimme a effing break. they can figure out the reservation stuff.

or they can not vote. this *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* is ridiculous. 

They essentially live in a different country. Their way of life existed long before this country did. And you don't like it because it forces our norms on theirs? Give me a ***ducking** break. 

[WrestlingRasta]

I kind of agree with you that they essential are their own nation. Their own laws, their own norms, their own society.  Almost complete sovereignty.  
 

BUT….

On this voting issue, which as mentioned above is not required, they are not looking to get us to practice their norms.  They are looking to practice our norms. Voting is not being forced upon them. 

Edited Sunday at 11:31 AM by WrestlingRasta