Oklahoma State Put Themselves In The Conversation For Second

[Wrestleknownothing]

With a strong CKLV, Oklahoma State benefited the most in the Intermat rankings (and to some degree in Flo). They closed the gap to Iowa from 23 points last week to just 5 points this week. And Iowa still is awaiting Jacori Teemer's return, so their point total comes with a question mark (though Terry Brands says there has been divine intervention in his recovery).

[Truzzcat]

They certainly have far fewer variables in flux than Iowa, If I were to bet on a team to take second right now it would probably be them. 

[1032004]

With Teemer, I would still bet on Iowa.

They both have quite a few guys that could have a wide range of placements so those guys could certainly determine it.  But I feel like Iowa has more guys that are safer bets for the top half of the podium - Buchanan/Caliendo/Parco/Teemer vs just Plott/Hendrickson/Hamiti IMO. And 3 of the 4 Iowa guys have a chance of winning it all, whereas the chances are slim for those OK State guys to even make the finals given who else is at those weights.  Spratley probably has the best chance of winning it all for OK State, but he could also DNP.

[Winners Circle]

I think I'm on an island by myself (or few others) here, but I've had OKST number 2 since preseason. My rationale is this: 

125: Spratley is top 6ish points. Petersen wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 125

133: Witcraft is bloodroundish points. Ayala is top 6ish points. Adv OKST through 133

141: Jamison is AA points. Block wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 141

149: Young win 2-3 matches. Parco is AA points. Adv OKST (small one) through 149

157: Fish is low AA/bloodroundish points. Teemer is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 157

165: Amine is low AA/bloodroundish points. Caliendo is 2nd points (with heavy bonus). Adv Iowa through 165

174: Hamiti is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Kennedy/Brands is AA points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 174

184: Plott is 3rd points. Arnold is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 184

197: Surber is low AA/bloodroundish points. Buchanan is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 197

285: Hendrickson is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Keuter is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 285

 

OKST heavy hitters: Hamiti (bonus pointer), Plott, & Hendrickson (bonus pointer)

OKST contributors: Spratley, Jamison, Fish, Amine, Surber

Iowa heavy hitters: Teemer, Caliendo (bonus pointer), & Buchanan

Iowa contributors: Ayala, Parco, Kennedy/Brands, Arnold, Keuter

 

Both teams have 3 heavy hitters (near locks to be top 4) and 5 contributors (5th-bloodround). When I look at the heavy hitters, OKST has two bonus pointers and Iowa has one. When I look at the contributors, I think OKST has 1-2 (Spratley and Jamison) that could exceed expectations and Iowa has 1-2 (Ayala and Parco). To me, it's razor thin but comes down to bonus and OKST's "floor guys" (Witcraft & Young) have more upside than Iowa's "floor guys" (Petersen & Block). 

[jchapman]

18 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I think I'm on an island by myself (or few others) here, but I've had OKST number 2 since preseason. My rationale is this: 

125: Spratley is top 6ish points. Petersen wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 125

133: Witcraft is bloodroundish points. Ayala is top 6ish points. Adv OKST through 133

141: Jamison is AA points. Block wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 141

149: Young win 2-3 matches. Parco is AA points. Adv OKST (small one) through 149

157: Fish is low AA/bloodroundish points. Teemer is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 157

165: Amine is low AA/bloodroundish points. Caliendo is 2nd points (with heavy bonus). Adv Iowa through 165

174: Hamiti is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Kennedy/Brands is AA points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 174

184: Plott is 3rd points. Arnold is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 184

197: Surber is low AA/bloodroundish points. Buchanan is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 197

285: Hendrickson is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Keuter is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 285

 

OKST heavy hitters: Hamiti (bonus pointer), Plott, & Hendrickson (bonus pointer)

OKST contributors: Spratley, Jamison, Fish, Amine, Surber

Iowa heavy hitters: Teemer, Caliendo (bonus pointer), & Buchanan

Iowa contributors: Ayala, Parco, Kennedy/Brands, Arnold, Keuter

 

Both teams have 3 heavy hitters (near locks to be top 4) and 5 contributors (5th-bloodround). When I look at the heavy hitters, OKST has two bonus pointers and Iowa has one. When I look at the contributors, I think OKST has 1-2 (Spratley and Jamison) that could exceed expectations and Iowa has 1-2 (Ayala and Parco). To me, it's razor thin but comes down to bonus and OKST's "floor guys" (Witcraft & Young) have more upside than Iowa's "floor guys" (Petersen & Block). 

Nice breakdown

[Gus]

43 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I think I'm on an island by myself (or few others) here, but I've had OKST number 2 since preseason. My rationale is this: 

125: Spratley is top 6ish points. Petersen wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 125

133: Witcraft is bloodroundish points. Ayala is top 6ish points. Adv OKST through 133

141: Jamison is AA points. Block wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 141

149: Young win 2-3 matches. Parco is AA points. Adv OKST (small one) through 149

157: Fish is low AA/bloodroundish points. Teemer is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 157

165: Amine is low AA/bloodroundish points. Caliendo is 2nd points (with heavy bonus). Adv Iowa through 165

174: Hamiti is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Kennedy/Brands is AA points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 174

184: Plott is 3rd points. Arnold is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 184

197: Surber is low AA/bloodroundish points. Buchanan is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 197

285: Hendrickson is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Keuter is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 285

 

OKST heavy hitters: Hamiti (bonus pointer), Plott, & Hendrickson (bonus pointer)

OKST contributors: Spratley, Jamison, Fish, Amine, Surber

Iowa heavy hitters: Teemer, Caliendo (bonus pointer), & Buchanan

Iowa contributors: Ayala, Parco, Kennedy/Brands, Arnold, Keuter

 

Both teams have 3 heavy hitters (near locks to be top 4) and 5 contributors (5th-bloodround). When I look at the heavy hitters, OKST has two bonus pointers and Iowa has one. When I look at the contributors, I think OKST has 1-2 (Spratley and Jamison) that could exceed expectations and Iowa has 1-2 (Ayala and Parco). To me, it's razor thin but comes down to bonus and OKST's "floor guys" (Witcraft & Young) have more upside than Iowa's "floor guys" (Petersen & Block). 

I think OKST floor guys should also include Surber and Fish. Surber looks tough so far this year but he has three NCAA wins in three trips. I am going to need to see it before I lock him in as a R12/AA type. Fish had nice wins over Paniro and Saldate but has losses to Chumbley, Brock Herman and Johnny Lovett on the year. For Reece, I am going to need to see some more consistent wins to but him in the R12 conversation. I am interesting to see how it plays out with him and Hughes. Is the cut just too much for Hughes? 

The other factor to consider is that Jamison fell off a cliff trying to hold 141 for an entire season last year. He had great wins to start the year last year and then was about .500 to finish the season including 0-2 at NCAA's. 

On the flip side, it is possible that Hamiti is a true title threat. Carter Young has looked better with each outing so perhaps he keeps improving. If Cael Hughes can figure out his weight cut or whatever issues he is dealing with the point potential of 133 goes up significantly in my opinion. 

[1032004]

46 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I think I'm on an island by myself (or few others) here, but I've had OKST number 2 since preseason. My rationale is this: 

125: Spratley is top 6ish points. Petersen wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 125

133: Witcraft is bloodroundish points. Ayala is top 6ish points. Adv OKST through 133

141: Jamison is AA points. Block wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 141

149: Young win 2-3 matches. Parco is AA points. Adv OKST (small one) through 149

157: Fish is low AA/bloodroundish points. Teemer is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 157

165: Amine is low AA/bloodroundish points. Caliendo is 2nd points (with heavy bonus). Adv Iowa through 165

174: Hamiti is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Kennedy/Brands is AA points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 174

184: Plott is 3rd points. Arnold is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 184

197: Surber is low AA/bloodroundish points. Buchanan is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 197

285: Hendrickson is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Keuter is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 285

 

OKST heavy hitters: Hamiti (bonus pointer), Plott, & Hendrickson (bonus pointer)

OKST contributors: Spratley, Jamison, Fish, Amine, Surber

Iowa heavy hitters: Teemer, Caliendo (bonus pointer), & Buchanan

Iowa contributors: Ayala, Parco, Kennedy/Brands, Arnold, Keuter

 

Both teams have 3 heavy hitters (near locks to be top 4) and 5 contributors (5th-bloodround). When I look at the heavy hitters, OKST has two bonus pointers and Iowa has one. When I look at the contributors, I think OKST has 1-2 (Spratley and Jamison) that could exceed expectations and Iowa has 1-2 (Ayala and Parco). To me, it's razor thin but comes down to bonus and OKST's "floor guys" (Witcraft & Young) have more upside than Iowa's "floor guys" (Petersen & Block). 

Agree with a lot of this but not all.   How exactly do you define “small adv”?  I feel like after 149 it’s about even which would then give Iowa a bigger advantage after 157.

I also don’t think it will come down to the floor guys, for example I don’t think Iowa fans are expecting much from Block and Petersen.  

I think it will come down to how many champs they can get (OK State really only has 1 possibility though I guess you could give Hamiti an outside shot, Iowa has 3 IMO and that would include Parco who you only have in the “contributor” bucket), and what spots the contributor guys get on the podium.  

One other comment is that IMO Kueter is probably the most “under-ranked” of anyone on either team. I think he is probably a safe bet to AA especially if it seems like Bastida and Feldman are dealing with injuries.

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, Winners Circle said:

I think I'm on an island by myself (or few others) here, but I've had OKST number 2 since preseason. My rationale is this: 

125: Spratley is top 6ish points. Petersen wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 125

133: Witcraft is bloodroundish points. Ayala is top 6ish points. Adv OKST through 133

141: Jamison is AA points. Block wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 141

149: Young win 2-3 matches. Parco is AA points. Adv OKST (small one) through 149

157: Fish is low AA/bloodroundish points. Teemer is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 157

165: Amine is low AA/bloodroundish points. Caliendo is 2nd points (with heavy bonus). Adv Iowa through 165

174: Hamiti is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Kennedy/Brands is AA points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 174

184: Plott is 3rd points. Arnold is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 184

197: Surber is low AA/bloodroundish points. Buchanan is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 197

285: Hendrickson is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Keuter is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 285

 

OKST heavy hitters: Hamiti (bonus pointer), Plott, & Hendrickson (bonus pointer)

OKST contributors: Spratley, Jamison, Fish, Amine, Surber

Iowa heavy hitters: Teemer, Caliendo (bonus pointer), & Buchanan

Iowa contributors: Ayala, Parco, Kennedy/Brands, Arnold, Keuter

 

Both teams have 3 heavy hitters (near locks to be top 4) and 5 contributors (5th-bloodround). When I look at the heavy hitters, OKST has two bonus pointers and Iowa has one. When I look at the contributors, I think OKST has 1-2 (Spratley and Jamison) that could exceed expectations and Iowa has 1-2 (Ayala and Parco). To me, it's razor thin but comes down to bonus and OKST's "floor guys" (Witcraft & Young) have more upside than Iowa's "floor guys" (Petersen & Block). 

This is just made up criteria, lol.  Ayala and and Parco being roughly equivalent to Spratley and Jamison was the best part.  Then claiming that Ok State's "floor guys" (again made up category) have more upside despite multiple years of NCAA competition and no real notable success vs. Iowa having two very young guys, when most recent stories show the young guys making huge leaps during the season.

[Wrestleknownothing]

34 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

This is just made up criteria, lol.  Ayala and and Parco being roughly equivalent to Spratley and Jamison was the best part.  Then claiming that Ok State's "floor guys" (again made up category) have more upside despite multiple years of NCAA competition and no real notable success vs. Iowa having two very young guys, when most recent stories show the young guys making huge leaps during the season.

I would like to offer a passionate defense of my especiality, made up categories. 

[1032004]

34 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

This is just made up criteria, lol.  Ayala and and Parco being roughly equivalent to Spratley and Jamison was the best part.  Then claiming that Ok State's "floor guys" (again made up category) have more upside despite multiple years of NCAA competition and no real notable success vs. Iowa having two very young guys, when most recent stories show the young guys making huge leaps during the season.

I’ll preface this by saying as I did above that I’m taking Iowa as long as they still have a mostly healthy Teemer.  

But I don’t think those two particular statements are far off.  Parco and Spratley IMO are similar in that they both have a shot to win but more likely will be in the 3-5 range.  I’d give Spratley a better shot of winning TBH just because 125 is so wide open.  Both Jamison and Ayala are more question marks at their current weight, but I’d give the edge to Ayala.

My issue with the “floor guys” comment is moreso that I don’t think they’ll really matter.  I don’t think Iowa fans are really counting on any points at 125.  Block could score about as much as Wittcraft or Young, but not both IMO.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

I think I'm on an island by myself (or few others) here, but I've had OKST number 2 since preseason. My rationale is this: 

125: Spratley is top 6ish points. Petersen wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 125

133: Witcraft is bloodroundish points. Ayala is top 6ish points. Adv OKST through 133

141: Jamison is AA points. Block wins 1-2 matches. Adv OKST through 141

149: Young win 2-3 matches. Parco is AA points. Adv OKST (small one) through 149

157: Fish is low AA/bloodroundish points. Teemer is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 157

165: Amine is low AA/bloodroundish points. Caliendo is 2nd points (with heavy bonus). Adv Iowa through 165

174: Hamiti is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Kennedy/Brands is AA points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 174

184: Plott is 3rd points. Arnold is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 184

197: Surber is low AA/bloodroundish points. Buchanan is top 4 points. Adv Iowa (small one) through 197

285: Hendrickson is top 3 points (with heavy bonus). Keuter is low AA/bloodroundish points. Adv OKST (small one) through 285

 

OKST heavy hitters: Hamiti (bonus pointer), Plott, & Hendrickson (bonus pointer)

OKST contributors: Spratley, Jamison, Fish, Amine, Surber

Iowa heavy hitters: Teemer, Caliendo (bonus pointer), & Buchanan

Iowa contributors: Ayala, Parco, Kennedy/Brands, Arnold, Keuter

 

Both teams have 3 heavy hitters (near locks to be top 4) and 5 contributors (5th-bloodround). When I look at the heavy hitters, OKST has two bonus pointers and Iowa has one. When I look at the contributors, I think OKST has 1-2 (Spratley and Jamison) that could exceed expectations and Iowa has 1-2 (Ayala and Parco). To me, it's razor thin but comes down to bonus and OKST's "floor guys" (Witcraft & Young) have more upside than Iowa's "floor guys" (Petersen & Block). 

 

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

This is just made up criteria, lol.  Ayala and and Parco being roughly equivalent to Spratley and Jamison was the best part.  Then claiming that Ok State's "floor guys" (again made up category) have more upside despite multiple years of NCAA competition and no real notable success vs. Iowa having two very young guys, when most recent stories show the young guys making huge leaps during the season.

Wrestlestat has OSU winning a dual meet at this point.  Now the dual being in CHA this year im not so sure but its gonna be one worth being there live. But of course dual matchups don't mean tournament results. 

Couple of my thoughts above.  IMO the 133lb issue is still 50/50 Witcraft/Hughes.  I'm expecting Hughes on Friday.  Regarding those floor guys, Young was right in the match with Henson.  He made one mistake and Henson got the takedown.  There is still plenty of time for JK & DT to fix the mistakes.  Witcraft looked better this year than last but as a ~6th yr Sr he kindve is what he is.  We know he has bonus potential but also he can lose a first round match off of one mistake.  Hence I think Hughes is still possible.  

[Winners Circle]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Agree with a lot of this but not all.   How exactly do you define “small adv”?  I feel like after 149 it’s about even which would then give Iowa a bigger advantage after 157.

I also don’t think it will come down to the floor guys, for example I don’t think Iowa fans are expecting much from Block and Petersen.  

I think it will come down to how many champs they can get (OK State really only has 1 possibility though I guess you could give Hamiti an outside shot, Iowa has 3 IMO and that would include Parco who you only have in the “contributor” bucket), and what spots the contributor guys get on the podium.  

One other comment is that IMO Kueter is probably the most “under-ranked” of anyone on either team. I think he is probably a safe bet to AA especially if it seems like Bastida and Feldman are dealing with injuries.

1. I wouldn't fight you on that.
2. My point with the floor guys is that I think they will make a difference because I think it'll be that close.
3. If you're going straight champs I don't think OKST has any, but Hamiti has the best shot. Hendrickson will score champion type points though. I think Iowa has three realistic shots (Ayala, Teemer, and Buch), but I wouldn't pick any of them.
4. I agree Keuter is very underrated. But to say he is a safe bet to AA, I need to see more. He's not beating Hendrickson, Kerk, or Gable. So there's only 5 spots left. He already lost to Yonger. If you told me he lost to: Ghadiali, Feldman, Trumble, Schultz, or Slav I wouldn't be surprised. 

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

This is just made up criteria, lol.  Ayala and and Parco being roughly equivalent to Spratley and Jamison was the best part.  Then claiming that Ok State's "floor guys" (again made up category) have more upside despite multiple years of NCAA competition and no real notable success vs. Iowa having two very young guys, when most recent stories show the young guys making huge leaps during the season.

1. Of course it's made up criteria. We're talking about NCAA's in December. Lmao.
2. Intermat has Spratley ranked #3 and Jamison #4. Average rank #3.5. Ayala #5 and Parco #4. Average rank #4.5.
3. You may be right here. I just hedged Block/Petersen seeing as how they both lost to Iowa State backups. Quality backups, but backups nonetheless. 

Edited December 11 by Winners Circle

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Winners Circle said:

1. I wouldn't fight you on that.
2. My point with the floor guys is that I think they will make a difference because I think it'll be that close.
3. If you're going straight champs I don't think OKST has any, but Hamiti has the best shot. Hendrickson will score champion type points though. I think Iowa has three realistic shots (Ayala, Teemer, and Buch), but I wouldn't pick any of them.
4. I agree Keuter is very underrated. But to say he is a safe bet to AA, I need to see more. He's not beating Hendrickson, Kerk, or Gable. So there's only 5 spots left. He already lost to Yonger. If you told me he lost to: Ghadiali, Feldman, Trumble, Schultz, or Slav I wouldn't be surprised. 

1. Of course it's made up criteria. We're talking about NCAA's in December. Lmao.
2. Intermat has Spratley ranked #3 and Jamison #4. Average rank #3.5. Ayala #5 and Parco #4. Average rank #4.5.
3. You may be right here. I just hedged Block/Petersen seeing as how they both lost to Iowa State backups. Quality backups, but backups nonetheless. 

Fair enough.  Interesting you give Ayala a shot to win but not Parco, I’d swap those 2. 

I’d be surprised if Kueter lost to Slav

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Fair enough.  Interesting you give Ayala a shot to win but not Parco, I’d swap those 2. 

I’d be surprised if Kueter lost to Slav

If you told me that Ayala beat Crookham, Nasir, Byrd, etc. I wouldn't be surprised. If Parco beat Henson or SVN I would be surprised. 

[Winners Circle]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

If you told me that Ayala beat Crookham, Nasir, Byrd, etc. I wouldn't be surprised. If Parco beat Henson or SVN I would be surprised. 

But I would not be surprised if Parco placed higher than Ayala either. I think Parco has a higher floor, lower ceiling. Ayala has a lower floor but higher ceiling. Idk if it makes sense, but that's how I feel.

[1032004]

15 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

But I would not be surprised if Parco placed higher than Ayala either. I think Parco has a higher floor, lower ceiling. Ayala has a lower floor but higher ceiling. Idk if it makes sense, but that's how I feel.

Makes sense

[VakAttack]

4 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

If you told me that Ayala beat Crookham, Nasir, Byrd, etc. I wouldn't be surprised. If Parco beat Henson or SVN I would be surprised. 

I think this is totally correct.  Ayala is way more likely to win a title than Parco.

5 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

Of course it's made up criteria. We're talking about NCAA's in December. Lmao.

1. Intermat has Spratley ranked #3 and Jamison #4. Average rank #3.5. Ayala #5 and Parco #4. Average rank #4.5.
2. You may be right here. I just hedged Block/Petersen seeing as how they both lost to Iowa State backups. Quality backups, but backups nonetheless. 

Intermat rankings are fine, but both guys were seeded to AA last year, or at least make the round of 12, and then Spratley lost to Ayala and Tanner Jordan, and Jamison was 0-2.  It appears both may have some weight issues with their current weight classes, and they're back in those same weight classes.  They're just as likely to DNP as to AA high.  Neither of them are separators, so they're going to be in tight matches, and neither of them beat anybody of note last year at NCAAs.  Meanwhile Ayala is a returning NCAA finalist and Parco is a multiple time mid to high AA.  The two pairs of guys are just not the same level of certainty.

Edited December 11 by VakAttack

[Winners Circle]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I think this is totally correct.  Ayala is way more likely to win a title than Parco.

Intermat rankings are fine, but both guys were seeded to AA last year and then didn't.  It appears both may have some weight issues with their current weight classes, and they're back in those same weight classes.  They're just as likely to DNP as to AA high.  Neither of them are separators, so they're going to be in tight matches, and neither of them beat anybody of note last year at NCAAs.  Meanwhile Ayala is a returning NCAA finalist and Parco is a multiple time mid to high AA.  The two pairs of guys are just not the same level of certainty.

Yea I understand your point. But I took all fours whole body of work into consideration when I wrote it up. I think you could argue that Spratley/Jamison's NCAA tournaments were outliers (negatively) same way Ayala's NCAA tournament was an outlier (positively). I think S/J both had AA caliber regular seasons and didn't place. Ayala had a mid-AA caliber season and made the finals.

Parco is a different case. He has been 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th. So definitely not "high AA". Mid, yes. But not high. But I don't see a way he beats Henson/SVN. Which is why I listed him in the contributor category. Because I don't see a world he makes the finals.

But none of this is a hill I'd die on.

[VakAttack]

4 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Yea I understand your point. But I took all fours whole body of work into consideration when I wrote it up. I think you could argue that Spratley/Jamison's NCAA tournaments were outliers (negatively) same way Ayala's NCAA tournament was an outlier (positively). I think S/J both had AA caliber regular seasons and didn't place. Ayala had a mid-AA caliber season and made the finals.

Parco is a different case. He has been 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th. So definitely not "high AA". Mid, yes. But not high. But I don't see a way he beats Henson/SVN. Which is why I listed him in the contributor category. Because I don't see a world he makes the finals.

But none of this is a hill I'd die on.

Ayala was at one point ranked number 1 in the country, and he placed second, and beat Spratley head to head twice.  ANyway, I'm not going to belabor this point, I think if Okie State beats Iowa, it's because of bonus production from Hendrickson and Hamiti

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Yea I understand your point. But I took all fours whole body of work into consideration when I wrote it up. I think you could argue that Spratley/Jamison's NCAA tournaments were outliers (negatively) same way Ayala's NCAA tournament was an outlier (positively). I think S/J both had AA caliber regular seasons and didn't place. Ayala had a mid-AA caliber season and made the finals.

 

Spratley and Jamison also have new coaches this year.  These guys are pretty good.  They also aren't Fr anymore.  

[Winners Circle]

14 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Ayala was at one point ranked number 1 in the country, and he placed second, and beat Spratley head to head twice.  ANyway, I'm not going to belabor this point, I think if Okie State beats Iowa, it's because of bonus production from Hendrickson and Hamiti

He also had losses to DeAug (x2), Matt Ramos, and Brandon Kaylor. All of whom did not AA.

Agree with you on Hendrickson and Hamiti bonus being important.

[strange_daze]

Top 5 would be an absolute success for this OK St. team.

In my view, a trophy would warrant the term 'magic' being applied to Taylor as a coach and not just as an athlete. It's possible, and I'm kinda hoping for it, but everything would have to go very right (stating the obvious).

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, strange_daze said:

Top 5 would be an absolute success for this OK St. team.

In my view, a trophy would warrant the term 'magic' being applied to Taylor as a coach and not just as an athlete. It's possible, and I'm kinda hoping for it, but everything would have to go very right (stating the obvious).

Besides Penn State and Iowa (possibly), what 3+ teams do you see ahead of them? 

Edited December 12 by Winners Circle

[ionel]

24 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Besides Penn State and Iowa (possibly), what 3+ teams do you see ahead of them? 

Wrestlestat.com has Ohio St, Iowa & NE 2, 3, 4 ahead of OSU.  One thing I like about wrestlestat info is allows you to dive into their data to see if you agree. 

First OSU blew the doors off Ohio St & NE at CKLV.  Regarding Ohio St they have Sossa ranked/rated #4, he was 2 before LV.  The Sammy we saw is not a #2-4 wrestler, he might get there and he might not AA.  They also have Feldman #4, I'm still guessing cartilage and we won't see him for 3 weeks but we don't really know.  

Next Iowa, i think they should be #2 right now but WS has them with 4 weights scoring zero points at NCAA.  Thats a bad look and shows vulnerable.  

NE did finish 2nd LV but again blown away.  Projected to have 9 scoring but 3 of those not making R12, similar to Iowa without the top end points.

WS has all 10 scoring for OSU with half 2nd to 3rd and only one non R12, I still think might see another guy at that weight.  If the new coaching staff really is fixing mistakes and improving during the year they probably have more upside potential than the other 3 and good chance of podium.  

[TylerDurden]

21 minutes ago, ionel said:

Wrestlestat.com has Ohio St, Iowa & NE 2, 3, 4 ahead of OSU.  One thing I like about wrestlestat info is allows you to dive into their data to see if you agree. 

First OSU blew the doors off Ohio St & NE at CKLV.  Regarding Ohio St they have Sossa ranked/rated #4, he was 2 before LV.  The Sammy we saw is not a #2-4 wrestler, he might get there and he might not AA.  They also have Feldman #4, I'm still guessing cartilage and we won't see him for 3 weeks but we don't really know.  

Next Iowa, i think they should be #2 right now but WS has them with 4 weights scoring zero points at NCAA.  Thats a bad look and shows vulnerable.  

NE did finish 2nd LV but again blown away.  Projected to have 9 scoring but 3 of those not making R12, similar to Iowa without the top end points.

WS has all 10 scoring for OSU with half 2nd to 3rd and only one non R12, I still think might see another guy at that weight.  If the new coaching staff really is fixing mistakes and improving during the year they probably have more upside potential than the other 3 and good chance of podium.  

Agree about Sasso. It's a great story and I'm happy he's back competing, but with the way he looks right now, he's might not get an auto spot out of the B1G.