"Chance"

[scourge165]

10 hours ago, Fletcher said:

I'm guessing that's a personality trait of Chance - not the type to point fingers or place the blame on anyone else but himself. That doesn't necessarily mean the Ok. St. staff is blameless.

Right. Even if it did contribute, if he turns around and says 'they asked me to cut too much, I had to turn to drugs to help get down,' it not only justifies it, it passes the blame. Probably not good for recovering addicts mentality and it just looks bad.

That's IF Smith was the reason he cut to '57. He may have just done it as they had a 3X National Champ Wrestling at 165 so that wasn't an option. May have just been his own decision. 

[AgaveMaria]

7 hours ago, RawDog said:

I thought it was awesome.  Too bad he didn't get help sooner. A lot of people seemed to know something was going on but didn't know how to help.

Every child abuser is known to someone who is aware of what it going on. Friends, relatives, neghbors know of it. They do nothing and the kid(s) suffer then and long after the abuse. They are as guilty as the abuser but nothing happens to them at all.

His choices were his but the parents are a major contributor to the problems. That they are not in prison or hanged for what they did is shameful. The religious types sure do ignore the Jesus solution - "a millstone around the neck & dump them into the sea". Should happen to all who abuse kids.

 

[H82Lose]

Great film, it really had some sad parts. What got me, Dad's are tough, most anyway. You gotta hope to have a mom to be the soft landing, someone that can love on ya a little, have the compassion etc. Hell is mom was brutal too, that poor kid had nowhere to turn. He got hosed on the JB match on the singlet pull, we said that during the live event. I am an even bigger fan of Chances now. I met him about 5 years ago at Super 32, my kid wrestled one of his club kids at the time. He was a good match, and he got pretty loud, lol...during the match. We won, and I thought, well I won't see that dude again. He came up to me later the dad, and wanted to tell me my kid was tough and wanted me to tel him to keep at it. Super cool move I think. A lot better experience there than with Henson, holy hell man.....lol That is an entirely different story. 

[Winners Circle]

13 minutes ago, H82Lose said:

Great film, it really had some sad parts. What got me, Dad's are tough, most anyway. You gotta hope to have a mom to be the soft landing, someone that can love on ya a little, have the compassion etc. Hell is mom was brutal too, that poor kid had nowhere to turn. He got hosed on the JB match on the singlet pull, we said that during the live event. I am an even bigger fan of Chances now. I met him about 5 years ago at Super 32, my kid wrestled one of his club kids at the time. He was a good match, and he got pretty loud, lol...during the match. We won, and I thought, well I won't see that dude again. He came up to me later the dad, and wanted to tell me my kid was tough and wanted me to tel him to keep at it. Super cool move I think. A lot better experience there than with Henson, holy hell man.....lol That is an entirely different story. 

[BAC]

After watching it, I couldn't help but wonder if some of the most compelling content was on the cutting room floor.  You could tell Chance and his brother wanted to be very careful about what they said about their upbringing, and I also had the sense that Flo was being careful to not air anything that might be overly critical of, and alienate, someone (a coach, a program, a wrestler) to whom Flo needs access.  It's probably a very tricky part of Flo's job.

[H82Lose]

3 hours ago, BAC said:

After watching it, I couldn't help but wonder if some of the most compelling content was on the cutting room floor.  You could tell Chance and his brother wanted to be very careful about what they said about their upbringing, and I also had the sense that Flo was being careful to not air anything that might be overly critical of, and alienate, someone (a coach, a program, a wrestler) to whom Flo needs access.  It's probably a very tricky part of Flo's job.

yeah you could tell he didn't want to get too much into the family stuff. Is mom and dad around today? Where is dad at? Does Chance's kids wrestle? 

[SNL Wrestling]

Very good film! Just hoping in here to say you should check it out if you can!

[The_KC_Godfather]

I personally thought this was one of the better Flo Films and that’s saying something because I have enjoyed all of them (only wish they’d make them more often!). I related to this a lot and it’s very hard for people not in recovery to understand how truly difficult it is. And the importance of having support around you. His wife is a saint, as are many.

The one thing I do think is that OSU wasn’t good for him. Not the weight cut, but…and I preface this with no personal knowledge, only what I’ve heard…the “culture” and stories of team members being partiers with no consequences. Whether true or not, I wonder how different things would have been if he had stayed with Penn State and bought into that culture? An addict will always find a way and truly has to hit rock bottom to stay sober…just wonder if that would have happened sooner for him if he’d chosen a different road upfront.

But of course, hindsight is always 20/20. Happy for him and his family and glad he’s in a good place. Thanks Flo and Chance for sharing the story!

[wrestle87]

7 hours ago, BAC said:

After watching it, I couldn't help but wonder if some of the most compelling content was on the cutting room floor.  You could tell Chance and his brother wanted to be very careful about what they said about their upbringing, and I also had the sense that Flo was being careful to not air anything that might be overly critical of, and alienate, someone (a coach, a program, a wrestler) to whom Flo needs access.  It's probably a very tricky part of Flo's job.

4 hours ago, H82Lose said:

yeah you could tell he didn't want to get too much into the family stuff. Is mom and dad around today? Where is dad at? Does Chance's kids wrestle? 

If you go watch the Bader Show the Chance just did, the editing makes a lot more sense.  Part of it is about not rehashing old childhood stuff, but Chance also takes a ton of accountability in that interview, and it sounds like he intentionally wanted to highlight his own missteps and his own process back.  He has received a ton of outreach from people, and sounds like he was pretty aware that he might well kickstart this sort of outreach.

Understanding that he was going to be kicking off a new community start point, he had a choice to emphasize accountability and positive process, or to make the film a source of commiseration and "woe is me" introspection and ruminating.

After listening to his interview, I feel like this whole exercise was about accountability and sharing his story of substance abuse to recovery.  

His interview with Bader is just as good as the film itself. 

[MPhillips]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

he had a choice to emphasize accountability and positive process, or to make the film a source of commiseration and "woe is me" introspection and ruminating.

Indeed. That's what stood out to me the most...

[1032004]

On 11/25/2024 at 10:56 PM, BAC said:

I enjoyed watching it.  Flo stepped up their game on this one.  The camera work was very good, nice drone work, and it's a solid mix between wrestling action and interviews.  They way they handled the 2023 WTTs was really effective too, especially toward the end.  

My only real critique is they could/should have done more to talk about his Steller Trained coaching work, including how that came about, its significance to him, how it got so big.  They show his crew swarming him at 2023 WTTs but never touch on the backstory and what role, if any, they had in his getting and staying sober.

Shoutout to his wife. We should all be lucky enough to have someone who sticks by their guy like that. 

Are you saying you know how Steller Trained came about and it’s a good story, or just you wish he talked about it more?  Not sure about Steller Trained, but IIRC, didn’t he first start coaching at his local high school while he was on house arrest or something?

(I have not watched the film yet)

[BAC]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Are you saying you know how Steller Trained came about and it’s a good story, or just you wish he talked about it more?  Not sure about Steller Trained, but IIRC, didn’t he first start coaching at his local high school while he was on house arrest or something?

(I have not watched the film yet)

I don't know the full story but want to know.  What I do know is that Steller Trained isn't just the 10-12 kids that the documentary makes it seem like.  If you follow youth wrestling, you see its an army of hundreds.  Many are walk-ins but its huge. It's like it sprouted out of nowhere, and they're incredibly loyal to Chance. It wouldn't shock me if the project was borne from some sort of court-ordered community service, but to my eyes, what he's accomplished in youth wrestling in such a short amount of time is a big story all by itself. And you have all these parents who, despite his backstory, entrust their kids to him. 

I don't want to be overly critical of the Flo crew, who probably had to do a lot of editing as it is just to bring it down to 2 hours.  But for me personally, before seeing the film, one the most enduring aspects of Chance's story is how he went from being down-and-out to being this mega-star at WTTs with a bigger youth fan base than... well, anyone.  They touch on it, and they're shown at the end of the film, but without ever really explaining or asking Chance how they got there, what Steller Trained is, or what role it plays in his story.

[strange_daze]

Really enjoyed the doc. Compelling story and great storytelling. Keep going Chance—your success brings hope to others.

[george]

Thanks to Chance for sharing this story.  I hope it helps others.

[1032004]

Just watched.  Good film. Kudos to Flo, Chance and his wife in particular.

On a wrestling note, can we talk about the reviewed call vs Burroughs where both corners wanted 4?  The singlet pull got much of the press but this call is a great illustration IMO of why I don’t like the freestyle rule of “who initiated the move.”  It’s not ideal that the refs’ decision can decide an 8 point swing (9 if you count a lost challenge point)

Edited December 1, 2024 by 1032004

[TampaRyley]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Just watched.  Good film. Kudos to Flo, Chance and his wife in particular.

On a wrestling note, can we talk about the reviewed call vs Burroughs where both corners wanted 4?  The singlet pull got much of the press but this call is a great illustration IMO of why I don’t like the freestyle rule of “who initiated the move.”  It’s not ideal that the refs’ decision can decide an 8 point swing (9 if you count a lost challenge point)

They showed a few different angles of it where I at a point thought that’s clearly JBs points or, then on another view, yeah Chance stopped the momentum and took him over for his points. I have the same qualms with international where so much can be open to interpretation based on how you see it. I believe the challenge ref in this case was Sammy Julian; one of the best US refs, who I trust to get the call right.

[pokemonster]

On 11/27/2024 at 6:53 AM, AgaveMaria said:

Every child abuser is known to someone who is aware of what it going on. Friends, relatives, neghbors know of it. They do nothing and the kid(s) suffer then and long after the abuse. They are as guilty as the abuser but nothing happens to them at all.

His choices were his but the parents are a major contributor to the problems. That they are not in prison or hanged for what they did is shameful. The religious types sure do ignore the Jesus solution - "a millstone around the neck & dump them into the sea". Should happen to all who abuse kids.

 

Haven't watched yet, but was he being abused and it was covered up? 

[1032004]

2 hours ago, pokemonster said:

Haven't watched yet, but was he being abused and it was covered up? 

He (and Jon Stefanowicz) said cops were called to the house on multiple occasions, but they did not get into any details.

They also showed a home video of Chance’s mom yelling at him while he’s forced to stay in a wrestling stance, and I think it was Stefnowicz who said something like “this isn’t even the bad stuff,” and Chance made a comment like “my mom and I’s relationship was good when it was good, and bad when it was bad”

Edited December 2, 2024 by 1032004

[TNwrestling]

15 hours ago, TampaRyley said:

They showed a few different angles of it where I at a point thought that’s clearly JBs points or, then on another view, yeah Chance stopped the momentum and took him over for his points. I have the same qualms with international where so much can be open to interpretation based on how you see it. I believe the challenge ref in this case was Sammy Julian; one of the best US refs, who I trust to get the call right.

I think Askren's point was best on that call. When they're on the way down jb puts his right arm out to stop his fall. At this point Chance was the only one of the two attempting any type of move.