Possible changes to NCAA Eligibility

[billyhoyle]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/42286584/vanderbilt-qb-diego-pavia-suing-ncaa-eligibility-rules

Once the courts decided that college athletes were essentially professional athletes and could get paid, it was obvious that the next thing to be challenged would be the eligibility rules.  The Vanderbilt QB, who has no NFL potential, is suing to get back eligibility for the years he spent at community college. 

Does anybody think it's likely that the courts eventually get rid of the 4 year competition limit and possibly even allow professional athletes to reenter NCAA competition? Will we look back at  NCAA athletes who only competed for four years similarly to how we see athletes from the time of Dan Gable and Hodge who only competed for 3?

Maybe Max Dean was ahead of his time. 

Edited November 9 by billyhoyle

[Hammerlock3]

I don't know how it plays out, but as time goes on its becoming obvious that the marriage of athletics and academics makes no sense past high school....

[Wrestleknownothing]

14 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I don't know how it plays out, but as time goes on its becoming obvious that the marriage of athletics and academics makes no sense past high school....

Certainly the marriage of academics and professional sport makes no sense.

[Eagle26]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Certainly the marriage of academics and professional sport makes no sense.

College sports are essentially professional sports now. 

[swoopdown]

After eligiblity rules crumble, will the next battle ground be inequality between NIL for male and female athletes? 

[Caveira]

13 hours ago, swoopdown said:

After eligiblity rules crumble, will the next battle ground be inequality between NIL for male and female athletes? 

Don’t say Megan Rapinoe Three times or she may appear in this thread.  

[MPhillips]

5 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Don’t say Megan Rapinoe Three times or she may appear in this thread.  

How soft a man must be to be afraid of an ex woman's soccer player...

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

How soft a man must be to be afraid of an ex woman's soccer player...

Sure.  Male and female athletes deserve equal nil payments.   

[billyhoyle]

19 hours ago, swoopdown said:

After eligiblity rules crumble, will the next battle ground be inequality between NIL for male and female athletes? 

Maybe? I'm pretty sure the two highest-paid athletes from NIL have been Caitlin Clark and Livvy Dunne. Kind of unfair to the men. 

[Camel Wrestling Fan]

9 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Maybe? I'm pretty sure the two highest-paid athletes from NIL have been Caitlin Clark and Livvy Dunne. Kind of unfair to the men. 

Idk, Broney was supposedly paid huge money for those commercials he did with his dad. Some of these QBs have gotten large deals too.

Equal pay women vs men in the commercial world? Maybe for equal work- meaning, the woman must increase sales as much as the man for the product, good, or service they are shilling. We should remember we are not communist, yet. Equal outcomes is not the goal. Equal opportunity is. With Equal opportunity in hand go sale yourself and make all the money you can, regardless of your sex.

[jackwebster]

On 11/9/2024 at 6:25 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

I don't know how it plays out, but as time goes on its becoming obvious that the marriage of athletics and academics makes no sense past high school....

I'll go a step farther and say it would be better to divorse the two at all levels.

[Husker_Du]

i think some wires are crossed in this thread.

there are two types of payment being discussed:

A) money + compensation to athletes from the school

B) NIL

there are two different things. 

especially for part B

no one 'deserves' anything. they are independent endorsement deals. 

[JimmyCinnabon]

8 hours ago, Camel Wrestling Fan said:

We should remember we are not communist, yet. 

I am not sure which country you live in, but the United States isn't even in the same universe as communism. If you think we are close I'd recommend you actually look up what communism is. We couldn't be further from it.

[jdalu75]

17 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

 the two highest-paid athletes from NIL have been Caitlin Clark and Livvy Dunne. 

One of whom is actually very good at her sport.

[JimmyCinnabon]

6 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

i think some wires are crossed in this thread.

there are two types of payment being discussed:

A) money + compensation to athletes from the school

B) NIL

there are two different things. 

especially for part B

no one 'deserves' anything. they are independent endorsement deals. 

 

While I have not brought this up on this board I have on other sports message boards and I think it's an interesting thought about athletes being allowed to come back to college to compete if they had eligibility left when they left school. The whole point of losing eligibility by going to the NFL, for example, was because only amateur athletes could compete in an NCAA sport.

Well what the hell does that even mean anymore? It means nothing at this point. Kids are being paid by everyone now, including the school, to play a sport. Why can't a guy "go pro" now and get paid and then come back and finish out their eligibility in college? The entire reasoning for a guy losing all remaining eligibility doesn't even make sense anymore.

[Hammerlock3]

8 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I'll go a step farther and say it would be better to divorse the two at all levels.

In high school, where it is still justifiable to say that sports are in place as a means of personal development, it still works. If you took young people out of a context where athletics was an important aspect of fitting in we're gonna have a lot more tik tok zombies sequestered in their basements. 

[billyhoyle]

11 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I'll go a step farther and say it would be better to divorse the two at all levels.

This in effect, has already happened, where ADs have become more like GMs.  States like Alabama/Mississippi will never get an NFL team, so this is their closest thing, and the football program there is MUCH more important than any type of academics (or non revenue sports) offered by those state universities. That is unfortunately becoming more of the case at B10 universities as well, to the detriment of college wrestling programs. 

10 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

i think some wires are crossed in this thread.

there are two types of payment being discussed:

A) money + compensation to athletes from the school

B) NIL

there are two different things. 

especially for part B

no one 'deserves' anything. they are independent endorsement deals. 

But can a 4-year limit on eligibility hold up when both A and B are going to be allowed by the courts? Why shouldn't college athletes be able be continue to compete as long as they are enrolled? 

[Caveira]

From a nil perspective.  Women do not deserve equal pay.  No one deserves equal pay.   Megan blue hair jokes not withstanding.  
 

do d3 wrestlers deserve equal nil pay to d1 wrestlers?   No. 
do mid level conference wrestlers deserve as much as conference champs?  No.  
how about ncaa qualifiers vs AAs?   Vs champs.  Vs multi time champs?   Vs 5x champs?   No.  
 

what about super star wrestlers vs superstar bball or football players?   
 

people deserve what they can negotiate…. And it goes back to their revenue based value to the folks paying them.  If the women are popular enough…. If they have star power then pay them.   If not they won’t get as much.  
 

Male sports simply on average have far more star power than women’s sports.   

[JeanGuy]

It seems that the problem is that the NCAA lost control of the NIL game. It was supposed to be that an athlete could be reimbursed for the use of the name, likeness or image. All of that seems perfectly reasonable, but the NCAA somehow let it become the wild west so I am not sure you can put it back in the tube at this point.

Eligibility should also be a no brainer. They are an organization that should be able to set their own rule for participation. Whether it be 5 years to compete 4, an age limit, or academic progress should definitely be in their control. My guess is they are gun shy and don't really want to fight that fight and soon sports will separate from the schools.

What the academics refuse to acknowledge is the marketing power of athletics and its place in applications. They think that students want to go to good old State U because it has the top geology program in the country and that just isn't all that true. 

[Caveira]

27 minutes ago, JeanGuy said:

separate from the schools.

This is super interesting.  
 

that changes a lot no?   Let’s be honest a lot of these kids make big $ for the college.  So much they get to skate on certain aspects of their academics.   We all know that happens.  If sports bail from the university that financial relationship is over and a lot of these kids will not be in college…. Just whatever container you put the actual sport in.   

[Wrestleknownothing]

NIL has never been designed to be equal. No serious person is talking about equal NIL. Nor would it even be possible to make payments equal because there is not a single payor who could control it.

Stop conflating NIL payments with the potential payments made directly by schools to athletes as part of the House settlement.

[Caveira]

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

NIL has never been designed to be equal. No serious person is talking about equal NIL. Nor would it even be possible to make payments equal because there is not a single payor who could control it.

Stop conflating NIL payments with the potential payments made directly by schools to athletes as part of the House settlement.

Payments by schools shouldn’t be equal either. It should be based on their ability to make revenue for the school.  Goes for any scenario.  Title 9 for payment?    Would u call it that? 

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Payments by schools shouldn’t be equal either. It should be based on their ability to make revenue for the school.  Goes for any scenario.  Title 9 for payment?    Would u call it that? 

No.

Nowhere in the working world is everyone's pay based solely on their revenue generating capacity. There are profit centers and there are cost centers in ever business. If you are a sales person, then sure there is a revenue component. If you are the Chief Financial Officer, the Chief Compliance Officer, the General Counsel you generate zero revenue, but you are likely among the highest paid individuals at a company. 

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Nowhere in the working world is everyone's pay based solely on their revenue generating capacity.

For real?   Ha.    I was an engineer in IT for years and years now I’m in sales consulting…….  All of it is based on the value you bring to the company.  

Edited November 11 by Caveira

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, Caveira said:

For real?   Ha.    I was an engineer in IT for years and years now I’m in sales consulting…….  All of it is based on the value you bring to the company.  

There you go again, switching definitions. Now it is about value? Before you said it was about generating revenue.